Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
I believe pagan means "country dweller." But I may be mistaken.
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How do Pagans feel about Christians and Why?
- Thread starter The Ocelot
- Start date
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
its both... according to mirriam-webster
Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
wa:-do
Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
wa:-do
Please excuse my punctiliousness, but I have never seen the meaning "country dweller" in English, despite the original meaning of "pagan". The shift in meaning came when Christianity started to catch on. The first Christians were city people, and so the country people were seen as heathens.
OctoberTheHottie
Member
I don't know how you got anything out of that dictionary post, lol... that is just me tho, lol. I agree with the country dweller thing to an extent, only on my personal level, because to me pagan means 'one with nature'... But I don't study paganism and don't claim to be one, so I would say they are what ever they consider themselves, who are we to label?? lol
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
agan.. the word pagan is just one example of many in wich an old word is changed to suit new uses...
I'm shure that the Laten use of paganus wasn't a referance to religion... It may have been the same in the Middle English...
what may have happined is as christianity spread and the 'urban' areas became more christian dominate those further away... in the country... retained thier 'heathen' ways and thus the term pagan was applied...
now it means someone who is not a member of THE BIG THREE... ie the monotheistic religions... or further those who have gone back to the old religious ways....
but hey its just a theory... I wasn't there..
wa:-do
I'm shure that the Laten use of paganus wasn't a referance to religion... It may have been the same in the Middle English...
what may have happined is as christianity spread and the 'urban' areas became more christian dominate those further away... in the country... retained thier 'heathen' ways and thus the term pagan was applied...
now it means someone who is not a member of THE BIG THREE... ie the monotheistic religions... or further those who have gone back to the old religious ways....
but hey its just a theory... I wasn't there..
wa:-do
Painted Wolf,
You need not be embarrassed for posting the accepted theories:
The Latin word "pagan" originally meant just "country people". The change in meaning occurred roughly a millenium before Middle English, according to all experts in just the way you suggest.
The definition of "pagan" in your previous post seems to be uncontested.
You need not be embarrassed for posting the accepted theories:
The Latin word "pagan" originally meant just "country people". The change in meaning occurred roughly a millenium before Middle English, according to all experts in just the way you suggest.
The definition of "pagan" in your previous post seems to be uncontested.
Master Hoomer
Member
Maize said:
Just read the link....it sums up a lot of "pagan" attitudes towards christians....
Ok definately NOT all...but some
Runt
Well-Known Member
Master Hoomer said:
Actually, it sums up a lot of Christian BELIEFS about the attitudes of pagans toward christians. Most pagans I know generally ignore Christians and Christianity until a Christian confronts them about their religion and starts saying why its "wrong". Then, I will admit, some pagans get vicious, while others have fun deconstructing the arguements against paganism (or simply deconstructing Christianity), while others simply respond with things like "You can believe what you want, and I will believe what I want. Now leave me alone." It depends on the individual.
I really hate stereotypes...
Master Hoomer
Member
Ok apologies ..it may have seemed inflamatory...
Actually the website is NOT written by a christian..but An EX Wiccan who has since moved on to Thelema I believe (Uncle Al)........
Sorry to say but Many pagans do Demonise Christians....
I for one am uniused to the Whole CRAZEEEEE brand of christianity that america is RIFE with...in england chreistianity is much more relaxed... have you seen Eddie Izzard thing thats on HBO at the mo??? He sunms up the Church of England so well...its just REEEEEELAXED" compared to nutty christianity(ie judgmental crazeeee type)
Yes stereoptypes are awful...but they DO exist in this case....
Personally I see NO conflict between christianity and Paganism....Christianity is really prewtty darn pagan...(sssh dont tell the christians).....
The figure of Christ can be see outside of christianity as well.....in the Greek mysteries we see "Apollo" who is Christ...in Hinduism (yes a pagan faith) we see Lord Krishna (krshna and christ both mena annointed one)....in Celtic beliefs we see Mabon son of modron..the divine child.....
etc..... and yes I know about Mithras....who pagans seem to instantly site in this context...the fact is that the Christ is rather universal......It is a pity that arrogance makes christians assume they have a monopoly upon "him"....thye do not
Pagans vs christian...isn't it time to forget and forgive...and realise that the christians "Pagans" have propblems with are NOT all christians...and that the ones that are are simply indocrinated into "hate" essentially...its not their fault....blame the church....it is rotten at the core....
Move on...the fact that MOST magick is actually performed by "christians" should be remeberd at all times (ssssh dont tell the christians its a secret)
"Let my lamp at midnight hour
Be seen in some high lonely tower,
Where I may oft outwatch the Bear
With thrice Great Hermes"
-----Milton
Actually the website is NOT written by a christian..but An EX Wiccan who has since moved on to Thelema I believe (Uncle Al)........
Sorry to say but Many pagans do Demonise Christians....
I for one am uniused to the Whole CRAZEEEEE brand of christianity that america is RIFE with...in england chreistianity is much more relaxed... have you seen Eddie Izzard thing thats on HBO at the mo??? He sunms up the Church of England so well...its just REEEEEELAXED" compared to nutty christianity(ie judgmental crazeeee type)
Yes stereoptypes are awful...but they DO exist in this case....
Personally I see NO conflict between christianity and Paganism....Christianity is really prewtty darn pagan...(sssh dont tell the christians).....
The figure of Christ can be see outside of christianity as well.....in the Greek mysteries we see "Apollo" who is Christ...in Hinduism (yes a pagan faith) we see Lord Krishna (krshna and christ both mena annointed one)....in Celtic beliefs we see Mabon son of modron..the divine child.....
etc..... and yes I know about Mithras....who pagans seem to instantly site in this context...the fact is that the Christ is rather universal......It is a pity that arrogance makes christians assume they have a monopoly upon "him"....thye do not
Pagans vs christian...isn't it time to forget and forgive...and realise that the christians "Pagans" have propblems with are NOT all christians...and that the ones that are are simply indocrinated into "hate" essentially...its not their fault....blame the church....it is rotten at the core....
Move on...the fact that MOST magick is actually performed by "christians" should be remeberd at all times (ssssh dont tell the christians its a secret)
"Let my lamp at midnight hour
Be seen in some high lonely tower,
Where I may oft outwatch the Bear
With thrice Great Hermes"
-----Milton
Master Hoomer
Member
Doesn't Krishna mean 'the dark one' ?
NO
krshna and christ both mean annointed one)
Master Hoomer
Member
Good and true etymology quotes here and there on that page.
Krishna means black; there is no resemblance to any Hindi word meaning "anointed".
Regarding the fantasies in the topmost post on that page:
To say that Indian people call out "Krishta" is a mishearing of the "n". It is not like an English (or French etc.) "n", but a peculiar sound, only found in Indian languages, and in Swedish and Norwegian ("retroflex n").
One Sanskrit word for "attraction" sounds like "aakrishta", but there is absolutely no connection between that word and the name Krishna.
Krishna means black; there is no resemblance to any Hindi word meaning "anointed".
Regarding the fantasies in the topmost post on that page:
To say that Indian people call out "Krishta" is a mishearing of the "n". It is not like an English (or French etc.) "n", but a peculiar sound, only found in Indian languages, and in Swedish and Norwegian ("retroflex n").
One Sanskrit word for "attraction" sounds like "aakrishta", but there is absolutely no connection between that word and the name Krishna.
Master Hoomer
Member
1st..i am not a she..MASTER is masculine!
Words change...right.....
the origin of a word does not always concur with the usage or the common meaning of....
Pagan in modern terminology genrally refers to polytheistic religions.....
but in the end lets leave discussions of meanings of words
When I said Christianity is pretty pagan I was poking.....Ok technically it is not pagan.... but if one digs deeper into more esoteric christianity (eso teric meaning "for the FEW" as opposed to exoteric "for the many").....One can clearly see paganism rife within in it.....
In Judaism we have the SHekinah..the host or presense or throne of God...or the Mother of God....this is what I would personally call The Goddess...in christianity we see the Goddess herself in the Guise of the 2 marys....(which in turn are 2 facces of the holy grail.....but thats connected but another story which I shouldn type up one day!)Gnostics refer to her as Pan Sophia....(wisdom)
.....Christian holidays and "temples" (churches) have largely supplanted older practises and sights.....
"Jesus" or the Christ more accuratly himself can be seen to be pagan....to the alchemist he was the Sun..tippareth the place of balance..the heart of it all....(kabbalah)...we can see this on the human body ..which IS the tree of life (kabbalah etc)...in the form of the Soalr plexes.....we can see the Alchemist's obcession with Gold (yes there is MUCH more to alchemy than transmutation of base metals!)..is to do with the Christ......ie reaching perfection..the christ....the gateway betwixt spirit and form......the Christian holy day IS ....SUN(son)day........
Jesus was sacrificed ....much like a native high king(from various native traditions)....drinking the blood and eationg the flesh of the King is clearly an earlier practise...
and I have scratched the surface....I could mention my fave christian heretics...the Brotherhood of the Rose Cross (Rosicrucians)...who were Christian pagans...centuries ago...the Rose being a potent symbol...and in the pivotal text "the chemical wedding of christian rosenkreutz"....we can see the rose is the Goddess in the guise of Venus.....and much more
"Come with me on a journey under skin, we will search together...for the Pan within....."
Words change...right.....
the origin of a word does not always concur with the usage or the common meaning of....
Pagan in modern terminology genrally refers to polytheistic religions.....
but in the end lets leave discussions of meanings of words
When I said Christianity is pretty pagan I was poking.....Ok technically it is not pagan.... but if one digs deeper into more esoteric christianity (eso teric meaning "for the FEW" as opposed to exoteric "for the many").....One can clearly see paganism rife within in it.....
In Judaism we have the SHekinah..the host or presense or throne of God...or the Mother of God....this is what I would personally call The Goddess...in christianity we see the Goddess herself in the Guise of the 2 marys....(which in turn are 2 facces of the holy grail.....but thats connected but another story which I shouldn type up one day!)Gnostics refer to her as Pan Sophia....(wisdom)
.....Christian holidays and "temples" (churches) have largely supplanted older practises and sights.....
"Jesus" or the Christ more accuratly himself can be seen to be pagan....to the alchemist he was the Sun..tippareth the place of balance..the heart of it all....(kabbalah)...we can see this on the human body ..which IS the tree of life (kabbalah etc)...in the form of the Soalr plexes.....we can see the Alchemist's obcession with Gold (yes there is MUCH more to alchemy than transmutation of base metals!)..is to do with the Christ......ie reaching perfection..the christ....the gateway betwixt spirit and form......the Christian holy day IS ....SUN(son)day........
Jesus was sacrificed ....much like a native high king(from various native traditions)....drinking the blood and eationg the flesh of the King is clearly an earlier practise...
and I have scratched the surface....I could mention my fave christian heretics...the Brotherhood of the Rose Cross (Rosicrucians)...who were Christian pagans...centuries ago...the Rose being a potent symbol...and in the pivotal text "the chemical wedding of christian rosenkreutz"....we can see the rose is the Goddess in the guise of Venus.....and much more
"Come with me on a journey under skin, we will search together...for the Pan within....."
dudley thoth
Member
Master Hoomer said:
:hi: :hi: :hi:
Doesn't Krishna mean 'the dark one' ?
Krishna means the black one - he is said to have been born with black skin. The word krishna means black in Sanskrit; occasionally dark blue.
And "pagan" means, according to my dictionary, "one who is neither Christian, Jew, nor Moslem", so a Christian can't be a pagan ;-)
And "pagan" means, according to my dictionary, "one who is neither Christian, Jew, nor Moslem", so a Christian can't be a pagan ;-)
OctoberTheHottie
Member
I think she was refering to the way christians worship and pray, and even the holidays they 'share' is alot like the pagans. That definition of pagans is a generic definition made by the church to label anyone who is not like them, therefore 'evil', like the witches from long ago... pretty out dated to me.... :-/
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
I believe pagan means "country dweller." But I may be mistaken.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
its both... according to mirriam-webster
Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
wa:-do
Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
wa:-do
Please excuse my punctiliousness, but I have never seen the meaning "country dweller" in English, despite the original meaning of "pagan". The shift in meaning came when Christianity started to catch on. The first Christians were city people, and so the country people were seen as heathens.
OctoberTheHottie
Member
I don't know how you got anything out of that dictionary post, lol... that is just me tho, lol. I agree with the country dweller thing to an extent, only on my personal level, because to me pagan means 'one with nature'... But I don't study paganism and don't claim to be one, so I would say they are what ever they consider themselves, who are we to label?? lol