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How do Pagans feel about Christians and Why?

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
agan.. the word pagan is just one example of many in wich an old word is changed to suit new uses...

I'm shure that the Laten use of paganus wasn't a referance to religion... It may have been the same in the Middle English...

what may have happined is as christianity spread and the 'urban' areas became more christian dominate those further away... in the country... retained thier 'heathen' ways and thus the term pagan was applied...

now it means someone who is not a member of THE BIG THREE... ie the monotheistic religions... or further those who have gone back to the old religious ways....

but hey its just a theory... I wasn't there.. :oops:

wa:-do
 

anders

Well-Known Member
Painted Wolf,

You need not be embarrassed for posting the accepted theories:

The Latin word "pagan" originally meant just "country people". The change in meaning occurred roughly a millenium before Middle English, according to all experts in just the way you suggest.

The definition of "pagan" in your previous post seems to be uncontested.
 

anders

Well-Known Member
Good and true etymology quotes here and there on that page.
Krishna means black; there is no resemblance to any Hindi word meaning "anointed".
Regarding the fantasies in the topmost post on that page:
To say that Indian people call out "Krishta" is a mishearing of the "n". It is not like an English (or French etc.) "n", but a peculiar sound, only found in Indian languages, and in Swedish and Norwegian ("retroflex n").
One Sanskrit word for "attraction" sounds like "aakrishta", but there is absolutely no connection between that word and the name Krishna.
 
1st..i am not a she..MASTER is masculine!

Words change...right.....
the origin of a word does not always concur with the usage or the common meaning of....

Pagan in modern terminology genrally refers to polytheistic religions.....
but in the end lets leave discussions of meanings of words

When I said Christianity is pretty pagan I was poking.....Ok technically it is not pagan.... but if one digs deeper into more esoteric christianity (eso teric meaning "for the FEW" as opposed to exoteric "for the many").....One can clearly see paganism rife within in it.....

In Judaism we have the SHekinah..the host or presense or throne of God...or the Mother of God....this is what I would personally call The Goddess...in christianity we see the Goddess herself in the Guise of the 2 marys....(which in turn are 2 facces of the holy grail.....but thats connected but another story which I shouldn type up one day!)Gnostics refer to her as Pan Sophia....(wisdom)

.....Christian holidays and "temples" (churches) have largely supplanted older practises and sights.....

"Jesus" or the Christ more accuratly himself can be seen to be pagan....to the alchemist he was the Sun..tippareth the place of balance..the heart of it all....(kabbalah)...we can see this on the human body ..which IS the tree of life (kabbalah etc)...in the form of the Soalr plexes.....we can see the Alchemist's obcession with Gold (yes there is MUCH more to alchemy than transmutation of base metals!)..is to do with the Christ......ie reaching perfection..the christ....the gateway betwixt spirit and form......the Christian holy day IS ....SUN(son)day........

Jesus was sacrificed ....much like a native high king(from various native traditions)....drinking the blood and eationg the flesh of the King is clearly an earlier practise...

and I have scratched the surface....I could mention my fave christian heretics...the Brotherhood of the Rose Cross (Rosicrucians)...who were Christian pagans...centuries ago...the Rose being a potent symbol...and in the pivotal text "the chemical wedding of christian rosenkreutz"....we can see the rose is the Goddess in the guise of Venus.....and much more

"Come with me on a journey under skin, we will search together...for the Pan within....."
 

argento_occhi

Sarcastically gifted
Em Hotep

I have no problems with Christians or Christianity. My best friend's Christian. We have fantastic religious debates when I stay over at her place. The only Christians I have a problem with are fundies who preach to me that I'm evil and that I'm going to hell. if they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. I'll quite happily talk about my beliefs. Just ask. Just don't proceed to bash me and we'll get along fine.

bright blessings,
argent
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
painted wolf said:
Listening to fundamentalists ranting about the evils of other religions and getting rid of them can make non-christians a bit nervous...

wa:-do
Lisening to fundamentalists ranting about the evils of other religions can make *christians* nervous!
 

niamhwitch

Celtic Faery Wiccan )O(
How come so many Pagans detest Christianity?
I wouldnt say "many", I'd say "some". Most (yes most) of the Pagans that I know do not have any problems with Christianity. And the some that do, dont have a problem with Christianity, but DO have a problem with SOME Christians. I have no problem with Christianity as a whole... I dont even have a problem with the fundamentalist Christians... however I do get annoyed sometimes when a person (of any religion) tries to persistantly convert me (even after polite requests to stop) and tells me I am doomed for what I practice. I think thats pretty understandable. I do not (nor do 99% of the Pagans that I know), however run around "bashing" people of other religions. We may discuss other religions and how this or that does not make sense to us, but we do not "bash" them, nor do we have a problem with them.

fluffybunny is normally referred to as people who are new to the practice.
Actually, that is not what it means. I actually really detest that word ("fluffybunny") because it can mean so many things (but I have never seen it used to refer to someone who is new to Paganism/Wicca). Generally it refers to a Wiccan who knows very little, if anything about the religion they claim to follow and has only read maybe one book on the subject and uses that book as a pseudo-bible for their practice. Usually its the type of "Wiccan" that either: (a) is only interested in magick, and not religion, (b) is very "everything is light and happiness" (or the opposite) and doesnt recognize the balance in everything, (c) does not know the history of their own religion, (d) one who is "self-initiated" (a definition that I disagree with as being "bad"), (e) one who flaunts their religion via clothing, jewelry, patches, bumperstickers, tattoos, etc (another that I disagree with), (f) one who has an immense dislike toward Christianity as a whole and one who "bashes" those of that religion; and there are many other definitions of it... some I agree with, some I dont... hence why I dont particularly care for the term and try not to use it. (Although sometimes I may use the term to refer to those definitions that I do agree with... but I try not to)

Well you guys seem to have a lot of misconceptions about Christianity. For one, there are religious fanatics in all religions
of course there are fanatics in every religion. I seem to remember reading that the Pagans who responded, specifically pointed out that not all Christians (or even most) are fundamentalists and not all Christians fit the stereotype of someone who constantly runs around trying to convert ppl and telling them that they are going to Hell. Those are the Christians that Pagans have a problem with, not all of Christianity.

Sorry to say but Many pagans do Demonise Christians....
Again, I wouldnt say "many". I would say "some". Most Wiccans/Pagans that I know do not "bash" or "demonize" Christians or Christianity. And those that do fit may of those definitions of "fluffybunny" that I do agree with as being "bad". Bashing and demonizing other religions is not at all a common practice among most Pagans.

I have no problems with Christians or Christianity. My best friend's Christian. We have fantastic religious debates when I stay over at her place. The only Christians I have a problem with are fundies who preach to me that I'm evil and that I'm going to hell. if they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. I'll quite happily talk about my beliefs. Just ask. Just don't proceed to bash me and we'll get along fine.
That is the feelings of most of the Wiccans/Pagans that I know. The original poster seems to think that many and most Pagans have this huge problem with Christianity... well I dont know the types of "Pagans" you have been conversing with, but I can honestly say that most real Pagans do not feel that way. They may have a problem with certain Christians, but definately not all of them!
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
Personally, I don't despise Christians at all, infact, my boyfriend is a diehard Christian, and anyone here who knows me, knows I'm a diehard Pagan.

The only Christians I have a problem with are those who condemn me to hell for my beliefs and even then I know that only a minority of Christians are like that and I don't even really have a problem with them. I merely pity them for believing so adamantly in and portraying their religion to be so intolerant and bigoted.

It simply saddens me that some people use the excuse of Christianity to be intolerant, disrespectful bigots to others when infact we should accept all people no matter what they believe.
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
I think that Christianity is cool . I mean you have to respect a religion that started with a guy on a mountian making a deal with God . In my opinion , Abraham was a TRUE Pagan .

I mean no disrespect saying that . In fact , I mean it as a compliment to both Christians and Pagans .
 

V lad i mir

Member
Many pagans are not comfortable with Christianity because it has a tendency to make them feel worthless as human beings. Christianity tends to teach that humans are inherently evil, we are like scum to God, we must beg for forgiveness for even the smallest moral transgressions or face eternal torture. For many pagans, the Christian God seems not like a God of Love, but a jealous monster God of Hate.

What kind of God would torture its children eternally while claiming to love them? This, for many pagans, is a contradiction that implies to them that the "fear factor" of the Christian religion (hell, hell fire, demons, satan, etc) is simply a means of controlling people, and holds no truth-- if you believe you are inherently "bad" and that "bad" people go to Hell, and if you believe that the only way to AVOID Hell is not just to ask for forgiveness, but to go to church, support your church, get new followers to go to your church, KILL for your church (it's all happened in history)... well, then it is easy to believe that something is definitely controlling your mind, your time, your money, your morals... and it's not Satan!

Pagans prefer to see that humans are inherently GOOD, that God loves us despite our flaws and gives us many chances (many lives) to gradually learn and perfect ourselves.
Christian God IS not God of Love, but a jealous, bloody monster God of Fear and Hate.
 

V lad i mir

Member
its both... according to mirriam-webster

Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

wa:-do
pagan - this is how Latins call those people( probably loved them a lot) did you ask pagans, what they are think about to be named like this? And do you know real mean of word " religion"?
 

V lad i mir

Member
Ok apologies ..it may have seemed inflamatory...

Actually the website is NOT written by a christian..but An EX Wiccan who has since moved on to Thelema I believe (Uncle Al)........

Sorry to say but Many pagans do Demonise Christians....

I for one am uniused to the Whole CRAZEEEEE brand of christianity that america is RIFE with...in england chreistianity is much more relaxed... have you seen Eddie Izzard thing thats on HBO at the mo??? He sunms up the Church of England so well...its just REEEEEELAXED" compared to nutty christianity(ie judgmental crazeeee type)

Yes stereoptypes are awful...but they DO exist in this case....

Personally I see NO conflict between christianity and Paganism....Christianity is really prewtty darn pagan...(sssh dont tell the christians).....

The figure of Christ can be see outside of christianity as well.....in the Greek mysteries we see "Apollo" who is Christ...in Hinduism (yes a pagan faith) we see Lord Krishna (krshna and christ both mena annointed one)....in Celtic beliefs we see Mabon son of modron..the divine child.....

etc..... and yes I know about Mithras....who pagans seem to instantly site in this context...the fact is that the Christ is rather universal......It is a pity that arrogance makes christians assume they have a monopoly upon "him"....thye do not

Pagans vs christian...isn't it time to forget and forgive...and realise that the christians "Pagans" have propblems with are NOT all christians...and that the ones that are are simply indocrinated into "hate" essentially...its not their fault....blame the church....it is rotten at the core....

Move on...the fact that MOST magick is actually performed by "christians" should be remeberd at all times (ssssh dont tell the christians its a secret)

"Let my lamp at midnight hour
Be seen in some high lonely tower,
Where I may oft outwatch the Bear
With thrice Great Hermes"

-----Milton
Tell me please how not to demonise Christians, who sunk my country in blood during baptism and sucking blood out of my people for lust 1027 years? how to respect people, who want to take my freedom and make me a slave of Middle Eastern "god"? How to respect them if 20000 schools was closed in my motherland and 12000 churches build? what to do if Christians force Russian government to make my people and faith punishable by criminal law and make illegal our books? what to do if T shirt with "kill Russians" is ok to wear and pagan symbols is not? I have several thousands Q. to Christians, but all I want to say - live us alone. P.S. is any Christians here? let me ask you a couple of Q. about bible, that nobody can answer.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Tell me please how not to demonise Christians, who sunk my country in blood during baptism and sucking blood out of my people for lust 1027 years? how to respect people, who want to take my freedom and make me a slave of Middle Eastern "god"? How to respect them if 20000 schools was closed in my motherland and 12000 churches build? what to do if Christians force Russian government to make my people and faith punishable by criminal law and make illegal our books? what to do if T shirt with "kill Russians" is ok to wear and pagan symbols is not? I have several thousands Q. to Christians, but all I want to say - live us alone. P.S. is any Christians here? let me ask you a couple of Q. about bible, that nobody can answer.

As someone who only feels faint echoes of such savagery from distant times, and who's opinion of greater Christianity is getting lower by the day, I can ONLY say how to "not demonize" them as it applies to where I live (US West Coast). This might not apply to where you are, and as someone who has ancestry in Ireland, I understand that regional difference. It's also largely preventative on my end; I have not yet demonized them, and really don't want to for the sake of Christian friends.

People are people. Most Christians out here don't actually know the bloody history. Others who do will react in different ways, either by dismissing it ("what about the positives"), denouncing it ("they weren't true Christians"), or some variation on those. This is a very human thing to do. I've done it, not for Christianity, but for other things. You'd do it, too.

If you feel there's a fight that needs fighting, would you allow a Christian to fight by your side against this common "Christian" enemy?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Tell me please how not to demonise Christians, who sunk my country in blood during baptism and sucking blood out of my people for lust 1027 years? how to respect people, who want to take my freedom and make me a slave of Middle Eastern "god"? How to respect them if 20000 schools was closed in my motherland and 12000 churches build? what to do if Christians force Russian government to make my people and faith punishable by criminal law and make illegal our books? what to do if T shirt with "kill Russians" is ok to wear and pagan symbols is not? I have several thousands Q. to Christians, but all I want to say - live us alone. P.S. is any Christians here? let me ask you a couple of Q. about bible, that nobody can answer.

As someone who only feels faint echoes of such savagery from distant times, and who's opinion of greater Christianity is getting lower by the day, I can ONLY say how to "not demonize" them as it applies to where I live (US West Coast). This might not apply to where you are, and as someone who has ancestry in Ireland, I understand that regional difference. It's also largely preventative on my end; I have not yet demonized them, and really don't want to for the sake of Christian friends.

People are people. Most Christians out here don't actually know the bloody history. Others who do will react in different ways, either by dismissing it ("what about the positives"), denouncing it ("they weren't true Christians"), or some variation on those. This is a very human thing to do. I've done it, not for Christianity, but for other things. You'd do it, too.

If you feel there's a fight that needs fighting, would you allow a Christian to fight by your side against this common "Christian" enemy?
 

Theweirdtophat

Well-Known Member
I don't detest them. Just extremists in general no matter what they practice. Some Christians can think what they want of what I am but what does it matter. They can think what they want to think and their opinion won't change my views. As for Christians and what they did back then, the ones responsible have been long gone for over a thousand years. And there are pagans back then that did things that weren't so noble either. I try to judge their character, not what they practice.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
And there are pagans back then that did things that weren't so noble either.

Hello, Plato the proto-Fascist.

Hello, Viking pirates. (The historical ones, not our romanticized mythic image of them. Not all Vikings were raiders, but those who were, were mass murderers, thieves, and rapists.)

Hello... Caesar. (Imagine me saying that name with a growl).
 
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