How do we know a Prophet is a Prophet and sent by God?

[mikkel_the_dane]

Once again, this is not a time or place for science. One can apply logic to claims and observations without using science.

Yes, but it works differently than evidence.

Here is an example.
P1: All animals, who get their food in the water, are fish.
P2: Penguins get their food in water.
C: Penguins are fish.

That is logically valid, but not sound.
As for observations that is evidence and not logic. That is how we know that deduction above is not sound.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, but it works differently than evidence.

Here is an example.
P1: All animals, who get their food in the water, are fish.
P2: Penguins get their food in water.
C: Penguins are fish.

That is logically valid, but not sound.
As for observations that is evidence and not logic. That is how we know that deduction above is not sound.

That is because P1 is a false premise. If someone uses a false premise then demonstrate it. One can still use observations and logic to refute claims. Please note that in this conversation I have asked believers for their definitions of terms quite often. No one has found any problems with my reasoning. They have only denied it.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

Including Jesus

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is because P1 is a false premise. If someone uses a false premise then demonstrate it. One can still use observations and logic to refute claims. Please note that in this conversation I have asked believers for their definitions of terms quite often. No one has found any problems with my reasoning. They have only denied it.

Yes, that is in practice covered by the Thomas Theorem: If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.
And this one by Protagoras: Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not.

But that is a part of how the everyday world works and here is another part:
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_12

So in effect religion as human behaviour is natural.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Scientific evidence that "physical energy is eternal. I narrowed it down to one single claim of yours.

Now, there are you and there is me. We are constituted by same thing. But our forms differ. The change is only in the vibration frequency and direction, otherwise the point of energy remains stationary.

II/8. Plane-polarized waves in a medium with both circular dichroism and circular birefringence

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, that is in practice covered by the Thomas Theorem: If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.
And this one by Protagoras: Man is the measure of all things: of the things that are, that they are, of the things that are not, that they are not.

But that is a part of how the everyday world works and here is another part:
https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/whatisscience_12

So in effect religion as human behaviour is natural.

Natural does not mean correct.

 

[firedragon]

Now, there are you and there is me. We are constituted by same thing. But our forms differ. The change is only in the vibration frequency and direction, otherwise the point of energy remains stationary.

II/8. Plane-polarized waves in a medium with both circular dichroism and circular birefringence

Thats not scientific evidence. It's preaching.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Natural does not mean correct.

So incorrect is unnatural?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So incorrect is unnatural?

Nope. That would be a Hasty Generalization fallacy on your part.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nope. That would be a Hasty Generalization fallacy on your part.

The funny thing about the universe is natural or any of these variants is that so is the answer: No!
Or if you like that religious people can deny science. That is the limit of evidence, reason, logic and all that.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If it's a God who is unknown, a God who takes a form then that would be a disqualifier.

Deuteronomy 4:12 And the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; there was only a voice.

Which contradicts what happened earlier in the Bible.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Your source claims that "it is abundantly clear that it is impossible for anyone to comprehend the Essence of God" and that god cannot be described or understood by anyone, regardless of how much we contemplate it.
And yet, the Baha'i faith relies fundamentally on comprehending, understanding and describing many aspects of god.

I mean, if it really is impossible to understand anything about god, then every claim about god by anyone claiming to have any understanding of god is obvious bull**** and should be dismissed as such.

It is a sound teaching that reflects why the thoughts of men are so divided on the topic of God. Truth is relative to our own nature, nurture and then choices.

Now we also get to answer this OP, as all the Prophets and Messengers sent by God are the only way we can know God, in Attributes. The Attributes are the Essence of the Messenger, they are the mirrors of the Spirit that emanates from God, they are the 'Self of God' to us in the matrix.

Thus as it has been previously offered. It is the person, their life and the Message that distinguishes the Prophets and Messengers from other human beings. As they are born of that Holy Spirit and not of the human spirit.

But unless in is open that there is levels to.spirot that sustain creation, then all this will not even be considered.

Nature, nurture and our choices create the world we live in. The best of choices can be found in what God has offered via the Messengers. History has proved that they have the greatest power to unite the souls and hearts of humanity, in this age Baha'u'llah has cone to unite the entire human race and the Message he gave is the only way we can unite, it contains all the required guidance needed in this age.

Regards Tony

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No.

Regards Tony

As I don’t believe others.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Since this is a thread started by a Baha'i, the belief is that Muhammad and the Bab and Baha'u'llah are prophets also. But, actually more than prophets, but what Baha'is call manifestations. How can we know if that is true or not? Is there prophecies that point to them as being from God? Do their writings sound as if they came from God? If not, then what? They are false Messiahs? Or, if they are true prophets from God, why did they get rejected?

They all sound the same to me. Not one has succeeded in transforming society to something better.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As I don’t believe others.

No, not the same.

Regards Tony

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No, not the same.

Regards Tony

My post about being a prophet is only half joking. I believe God talks to me, though not like on FB or anything. Is it because I am not interested in followers? Too many people follow religious lemmings. If there is Truth it won’t matter who or what talked about it. I just find it amazing that people have higher standards for living people than long dead ones.

 

[Bree]

This is for me a fascinating topic because I am a strong believer in the Prophets although I never met Them yet somehow within myself, I know they are true and sent by God.

The question is - how do we know a Prophet is from God? We have such scriptures as the Bible, the Quran which I accept and also stories about the Lives of Great Educators like Buddha, Christ, Moses, Muhammad, Krishna and Baha’u’llah.

But with no one yet able to describe God how do billions of people believe in Them?

God is well defined.

The bible says 'God is Love'

1john 4:8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My post about being a prophet is only half joking. I believe God talks to me, though not like on FB or anything. Is it because I am not interested in followers? Too many people follow religious lemmings. If there is Truth it won’t matter who or what talked about it. I just find it amazing that people have higher standards for living people than long dead ones.

I see that God does not speak directly to humanity. That is the domain of a Messenger. Any voice we may hear, is not God, but we can be inspired by the Messenger of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is not scientific evidence. It's preaching.

No preaching. I was pointing to the behavior of waves. You can study more about it. The link is here: Electromagnetic waves and circular dichroism: an animated tutorial

The bible says 'God is Love'
1john 4:8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

Is he? Then why hell? Why will he not raise all?

 

[firedragon]

No preaching. I was pointing to the behavior of waves. You can study more about it. The link is here: Electromagnetic waves and circular dichroism: an animated tutorial

Its preaching. Because you did not provide scientific evidence to what I asked. You are making a truth claim, a knowledge claim. Maybe you dont understand how that works in science.