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How do we know a Prophet is a Prophet and sent by God?

Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
The problem is, you have changed your so called Magical Pixie to an "unverifiable pixie". And you think that's a great but sly change to suit your agenda. Nice.

So fine. Lets go ahead.

Can you give your definitions of both of these characters?

1. Unverifiable God.
2. What are the arguments you have heard for this unverifiable God.
3. Unverifiable Pixie
4. What are the arguments you have heard for this unverifiable pixie.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Nope, I haven't changed it to an unverifiable pixie, it was ALWAYS an unverifiable pixie. Go back and read the post I made that you originally responded to.

My Post:
An unverifiable god is about as meaningful as an unverifiable magical pixie.

Your Response

Actually its not.

Is a magical pixie created or uncreated? Just as a thought experiment. One step at a time.

#91

You've done this before. You start a conversation with me and when you're 'thought experiment' goes nowhere you blatantly lie about what I wrote and accuse me of trying to be 'sly and change the agenda to suit me' when that's exactly what YOU are attempting to do by being blatantly dishonest about what I said.

How shameful.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
QuestioningMind said:
Nope, I haven't changed it to an unverifiable pixie, it was ALWAYS an unverifiable pixie. Go back and read the post I made that you originally responded to.

My Post:
An unverifiable god is about as meaningful as an unverifiable magical pixie.

Your Response

Actually its not.

Is a magical pixie created or uncreated? Just as a thought experiment. One step at a time.

#91

You've done this before. You start a conversation with me and when you're 'thought experiment' goes nowhere you blatantly lie about what I wrote and accuse me of trying to be 'sly and change the agenda to suit me' when that's exactly what YOU are attempting to do by being blatantly dishonest about what I said.

How shameful.
Click to expand...

I dont remember you mate.

Anyway,

Can you give your definitions and what you know about both of these characters?

1. Unverifiable God.
2. What are the arguments you have heard for this unverifiable God.
3. Unverifiable Pixie
4. What are the arguments you have heard for this unverifiable pixie.
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Ella S. said:
Some of the sociological research done on New Religious Movements might shed some light on this question.
Click to expand...

There is only a small handful of religious Figures throughout recorded history Who succeeded in capturing the minds and hearts and spread their Cause universally throughout the world despite the cruelest persecution from powerful governments.

They had no wealth or power to assist them, were banished, exiled, imprisoned, tortured, stoned and even crucified, yet They overcame their adversaries in the end.

Eventually They came to be revered with temples, mosques, synagogues, pagodas and churches built praising and glorifying Their Names all over the world. Kings and Queens bow before Them although They passed away thousands of years ago.

How do They continue to inspire such loyalty and devotion even centuries later and to this day?
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
I dont remember you mate.

Anyway,

Can you give your definitions and what you know about both of these characters?

1. Unverifiable God.
2. What are the arguments you have heard for this unverifiable God.
3. Unverifiable Pixie
4. What are the arguments you have heard for this unverifiable pixie.
Click to expand...

Why would I bother? All you'll do is LIE about what I said later, just like you did with your last post... mate.
 
Ella S.

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
loverofhumanity said:
There is only a small handful of religious Figures throughout recorded history Who succeeded in capturing the minds and hearts and spread their Cause universally throughout the world despite the cruelest persecution from powerful governments.

They had no wealth or power to assist them, were banished, exiled, imprisoned, tortured, stoned and even crucified, yet They overcame their adversaries in the end.

Eventually They came to be revered with temples, mosques, synagogues, pagodas and churches built praising and glorifying Their Names all over the world. Kings and Queens bow before Them although They passed away thousands of years ago.

How do They continue to inspire such loyalty and devotion even centuries later and to this day?
Click to expand...

A large chunk of ideologies are recognized on a global scale, not merely a small handful, in my opinion.

Ideas tend to propagate. I don't think there's anything puzzling about that.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
loverofhumanity said:
This is for me a fascinating topic because I am a strong believer in the Prophets although I never met Them yet somehow within myself, I know they are true and sent by God.

The question is - how do we know a Prophet is from God? We have such scriptures as the Bible, the Quran which I accept and also stories about the Lives of Great Educators like Buddha, Christ, Moses, Muhammad, Krishna and Baha’u’llah.

But with no one yet able to describe God how do billions of people believe in Them?
Click to expand...
Rule #1: If they contradict the Bible they aren't of God.
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Sirona said:
AFAIK, from the HIndu perspective, the ability to worship God(s) is the distinct human trait that distinguishes humans from animals. But this says absolutely nothing about why a certain believer would choose a specific belief.
Click to expand...

I think you’re onto something of vital importance and that is that the ability to worship God is a human trait only..
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
loverofhumanity said:
Let’s get back to the topic. I’ll start with Prophet Muhammad. When He returned from the cave where He claimed angel Gabriel revealed to Him the Words of God why did those around Him believe Him? At that time there was no Quran, that would come over a period of 23 years.

My question is what inspired the early Muslims to be willing to sacrifice their lives for Islam even though they were opposed, oppressed, tortured and killed and had practically no Islamic literature?

The same goes for Christ’s disciples. Why accept to be beheaded when they could have lived in comfort and ease?

Now Christianity and Islam have spread all over the world. Why? If the Prophets were just ordinary people like you and I then we should be able to replicate everything they did, change civilisation and acquire billions of followers. Can any of us do that? If so then do it and if not why not?
Click to expand...
Yeah, religious believe are a strange thing. But we know how Christianity spread. We know who the players were that made it into a world religion. And we know that the Baha'i Faith doesn't believe lots of the things that Christianity tells us are true. It doesn't matter Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic or any other sect you want to look at, not one of them is teaching and believing in the things the Baha'i Faith tells us are true. Satan? The resurrection? Original sin? A six-day creation? A world-wide flood? So, the "greatness" of Christianity isn't because it is necessarily true. but it is only because people came to believe it was true... Or, probably closer to the truth, had to appear to believe it to be true to avoid getting into trouble.

Do Baha'is believe everything Paul said in his epistles? Then all those Church Fathers that interpreted the NT and helped form the Church doctrine. I don't believe all that stuff is true. And I doubt Baha'is do either. Yet, Christianity, with its many errant beliefs and doctrines, spread around the world. Then came the Protestant Reformation. Those Christians didn't even believe in the things taught by the Roman Church. And then Protestantism, all of its many sects, spread over the whole world. Missionaries telling people that their old beliefs were false and how they needed Jesus. And, of course, that Jesus is the only way. So, way did it spread? Was it because it was the truth from God? No, because Christians don't even agree on what is the truth.

But, just like prophets of old, some people come on as if they "know" the truth. They "know" the Bible, meaning the Christian version with the NT added on, is The Truth. They are passionate about their beliefs, and some are very charismatic... Like the character in the movie Elmer Gantry. We've had Billy Grahams and Jimmy Swaggart and so many others. By Baha'is standards, not one of them is speaking the real truth. But, instead, Baha'is believe a misinterpretation of the truth. Sure, great people have given their lives to spreading that truth. But is it and was it ever The Truth?
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
CG Didymus said:
Yeah, religious believe are a strange thing. But we know how Christianity spread. We know who the players were that made it into a world religion. And we know that the Baha'i Faith doesn't believe lots of the things that Christianity tells us are true. It doesn't matter Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic or any other sect you want to look at, not one of them is teaching and believing in the things the Baha'i Faith tells us are true. Satan? The resurrection? Original sin? A six-day creation? A world-wide flood? So, the "greatness" of Christianity isn't because it is necessarily true. but it is only because people came to believe it was true... Or, probably closer to the truth, had to appear to believe it to be true to avoid getting into trouble.

Do Baha'is believe everything Paul said in his epistles? Then all those Church Fathers that interpreted the NT and helped form the Church doctrine. I don't believe all that stuff is true. And I doubt Baha'is do either. Yet, Christianity, with its many errant beliefs and doctrines, spread around the world. Then came the Protestant Reformation. Those Christians didn't even believe in the things taught by the Roman Church. And then Protestantism, all of its many sects, spread over the whole world. Missionaries telling people that their old beliefs were false and how they needed Jesus. And, of course, that Jesus is the only way. So, way did it spread? Was it because it was the truth from God? No, because Christians don't even agree on what is the truth.

But, just like prophets of old, some people come on as if they "know" the truth. They "know" the Bible, meaning the Christian version with the NT added on, is The Truth. They are passionate about their beliefs, and some are very charismatic... Like the character in the movie Elmer Gantry. We've had Billy Grahams and Jimmy Swaggart and so many others. By Baha'is standards, not one of them is speaking the real truth. But, instead, Baha'is believe a misinterpretation of the truth. Sure, great people have given their lives to spreading that truth. But is it and was it ever The Truth?
Click to expand...


For myself personally, the centre of Christianity was Christ and still is and that’s the reason why it has endured thousands of years despite many questionable doctrines and man made teachings. Christ to me is as the sun from which all light emanates and from which candles get their light too. Without Christ as the Centre, Christianity I believe would have died out the same generation it began and with Christ’s passing the world would no longer have heard of Him had there not been a mystical force behind Him, guiding and inspiring those who followed Him. Some call it the Holy Spirit, but whatever it was, it still inspires hearts and minds.

So regardless of who spread or led Christianity at any given time in history, wasn’t it the mystical force behind Christ which was the real Cause of its spread? I have no doubt that Christ was true or truth, so the truth of Christ has spread to modern times despite man made doctrines being added.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
dybmh said:
If it's a God who is unknown, a God who takes a form then that would be a disqualifier.

Deuteronomy 4:12 And the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; there was only a voice.
Click to expand...
And I will ask the same question. What if Deuteronomy is wrong? How do you know that it is right? The Baha'i think that believe that their prophets are right The Muslims believe that their prophet is right.

How do you test them? Everybody has confirmation bias tests so those are worthless. And one cannot assume that any one holy book is right because we have not even gotten into Eastern religions or New World ones. Or African ones.
 
Luchito Prays

Luchito Prays

Member
From my part, a prophet coming from the God of the bible must also have a way to say the message that will identify him as such.

Also, there are certain situations that will help a lot to identify the prophet.

A prophet of the God is not just any person. You can witness this reality today. There are lots of men and women talking loud in the street corners, outside shopping centers and etc. saying messages and nobody pays attention to them. Something is missing that people just ignore them.

The prophet, on the other hand, will be heard, and no matter if he is a false prophet, surely he will be heard by many and these many will believe in the message.
 
Segev Moran

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
loverofhumanity said:
This is for me a fascinating topic because I am a strong believer in the Prophets although I never met Them yet somehow within myself, I know they are true and sent by God.

The question is - how do we know a Prophet is from God? We have such scriptures as the Bible, the Quran which I accept and also stories about the Lives of Great Educators like Buddha, Christ, Moses, Muhammad, Krishna and Baha’u’llah.

But with no one yet able to describe God how do billions of people believe in Them?
Click to expand...
In the Jewish belief. A prophet can only be considered as one if all his positive prophecies are met.
Negative prophecies are always considered possible and not a must.
 
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