How do we know a Prophet is a Prophet and sent by God?

[Koldo]

Try to think about how we could ever 'verify' that a Messenger was sent by God, given we can never verify that God exists. I cannot see how that would ever be possible.

It is quite complicated but a few things would be a good start, like being able to say what exactly is going to happen in the near future, as in extraordinary events, with precision and multiple times.

 

[robocop (actually)]

This is for me a fascinating topic because I am a strong believer in the Prophets although I never met Them yet somehow within myself, I know they are true and sent by God.

The question is - how do we know a Prophet is from God? We have such scriptures as the Bible, the Quran which I accept and also stories about the Lives of Great Educators like Buddha, Christ, Moses, Muhammad, Krishna and Baha’u’llah.

But with no one yet able to describe God how do billions of people believe in Them?

Well the Torah has Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

 

[dybmh]

Well the Torah has Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

Why not Deuteronomy 13?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Why not Deuteronomy 13?

That works too.

Of course, today we will not put someone to death.

 

[dybmh]

That works too.

Of course, today we will not put someone to death.

What's nice about 13 is it gives the criteria for dismissing a false prophet.

• adding or removing from the written Torah
• worshipping an other unknown God

 

[Clara Tea]

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT A PROPHET IS A PROPHET AND SENT BY GOD?

This is for me a fascinating topic because I am a strong believer in the Prophets although I never met Them yet somehow within myself, I know they are true and sent by God.

The question is - how do we know a Prophet is from God? We have such scriptures as the Bible, the Quran which I accept and also stories about the Lives of Great Educators like Buddha, Christ, Moses, Muhammad, Krishna and Baha’u’llah.

But with no one yet able to describe God how do billions of people believe in Them?

FALSELY CLAIMING TO WORK FOR GOD:

EXAMPLE 1:

Jeb Bush said that he talked with God and was assured that no hurricane would hit Florida while he was governor. That was PROVEN FALSE by hurricanes hitting Florida. Then came the FALSE EXPLANATION: Jeb Bush said that rich people were not hurt (sturdy brick houses), and God was only killing the trailer trash people.

MORALS TO EXAMPLE 1:

1. Falsely claimed prophesy to get votes.

2. Lied (Proven wrong).

3. People hurt by following the false prophet (they could have gotten away from the hurricanes).

4. Had utter disdain for the injured poor (not at all the way Jesus healed the poor).

EXAMPLE 2:

1. President W. Bush said that he's "fightin' evil," but the Revelation (a chapter of the bible) had God's commandment not to attack Iraq or face God's wrath (such as Revelation 15: Seven mutations of covid).

MORALS TO EXAMPLE 2:

1. Falsely claim to work for God, to get votes.

2. Lied (Iraq didn't have WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction), Niger wasn't selling Iraq yellow-cake Uranium (Wilson refused to lie, so they outed CIA wife, Valery Plame). God/Jesus said "thou shalt not kill" "turn the other cheek" and "do unto others" and "shalt not bear false witness."

3. Broke almost every commandment in the bible.

4. Sowed hatred in peaceful nations that are now linked to terrorism (but were not before), and terrorism is a greater threat than ever. They also have a lot of military equipment left over. They objected to lack of sanitation, water, food, medical supplies, the death of their neighbors, friends, and coworkers, and the corruption of their government (they were not allowed to vote for antiamerican leaders because America wouldn't allow it).

5. Pretends to be on God's side (favorite ploy of Satan). "Fightin' the Axis of Evil."

6. Pretends that there are orange alerts. Tom Ridge, head of Homeland Security, said, on the Paula Zahn show, that he never issued orange alerts, and he was the one who was supposed to issue all alerts if alerts were to be issued at all. Ridge said that the alerts came from higher up. Well, there is no one higher up (prior to all such agencies being put under the command of the CIA) than Dick Cheney and President W. Bush. Remember Satan rules by fear.

7. Works to destroy God's greatest creations. (Destroy men, destroy the environment....logging roads into forests to chop them, drilling offshore instead of solar, ignoring and denying Global Warming to get more mammon from greedy oil tycoons, fracking by evading the Clean Water Act, polluting the streams and lakes, making nuclear plants without any idea where to dump the waste, putting in hydroelectic plants without worrying about silting the rivers and that fish ladders don't work well, etc).


COMPARE THIS WITH THE MODERN PROPHETS OF GOD THAT I KNOW:

The Prophets of God were among the most renowned psychics on earth prior to God choosing them to be His Prophets. One of my friends had been hired by the Central Intelligence Agency to locate a lost sunken Soviet nuclear submarine.

The Prophets of God didn't add to, nor subtract from Revelation (a chapter of the bible). Doesn't that make them useless? No, it means that not enough powerful people heeded God's command not to attack Iraq, and God wanted to give it one more chance before sending all of the people who supported the war in Iraq to burn in the Lake of Fire of the Bottomless Pit of Hell for all eternity. So, God sent his Prophets to warn them one last time.

MORE ABOUT THIS:

There is so much more to write about this, but I have limited time. One thing is that Republicans should have known that they were voting against God when they realized that their candidates had to be members of the National Rifle Association ("thou shalt not kill.")

People should have known not to vote for someone who has a track record of cutting taxes for the rich while ignoring the homeless and sick (against Obamacare).

People should have known not to vote for W. Bush after he was a member of a Satanic cult, Skull and Bones, and in there the members said incantations in Latin to their Satanic lord, and they mixed cauldrons of unspeakable filth (eyes of newt (not Gingrich), toes of frogs, etc). George Bush (dad) was also a member of Skull and Bones. Prescott Bush (grand dad) was also a member of skull and bones, and he stole the bones of the famous Native American, Geronimo, and the Skull and Bones group had Satanic rituals with it.

I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that there was plenty of evidence of cruelty and having every deadly sin and breaking almost every one of God's commandments. There is just too much to write about.

 

[robocop (actually)]

What's nice about 13 is it gives the criteria for dismissing a false prophet.

• adding or removing from the written Torah
• worshipping an other unknown God

Two things that are hard to tell.

 

[dybmh]

Two things that are hard to tell.

Deuteronomy 13:2 and if the sign or wonder he has spoken to you comes about, but he says, "Let us follow other gods (which you have not known) and let us worship them,"

John 8:19 "Where is Your Father?" they asked Him. "You do not know Me or My Father," Jesus answered. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well."

 

[robocop (actually)]

Deuteronomy 13:2 and if the sign or wonder he has spoken to you comes about, but he says, "Let us follow other gods (which you have not known) and let us worship them,"

John 8:19 "Where is Your Father?" they asked Him. "You do not know Me or My Father," Jesus answered. "If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well."

I still think it's hard to tell. Look at all the religions out there that believe in the Old and New Testament.

 

[dybmh]

I still think it's hard to tell. Look at all the religions out there that believe in the Old and New Testament.

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is quite complicated but a few things would be a good start, like being able to say what exactly is going to happen in the near future, as in extraordinary events, with precision and multiple times.

The Prophets knew exactly what was going to happen but they did not state it with precision because their purpose for stating it was not to convince people they were Prophets.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Try to think about how we could ever 'verify' that a Messenger was sent by God, given we can never verify that God exists. I cannot see how that would ever be possible.

True enough... how could anyone possibly believe in a messenger from god when it's impossible to verify that any god actually exists? Seems like FIRST you should verify that some god exists THEN you can try and figure out if anyone is actually getting messages from it.

 

[Trailblazer]

True enough... how could anyone possibly believe in a messenger from god when it's impossible to verify that any god actually exists? Seems like FIRST you should verify that some god exists THEN you can try and figure out if anyone is actually getting messages from it.

Unfortunately that method won't work because nobody can ever verify that God exists.
The only method that is available is to try to determine if the Messenger was who He claimed to be.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.

I still think it's hard to tell. The verse even says right there that many will be deceived.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What's nice about 13 is it gives the criteria for dismissing a false prophet.

• adding or removing from the written Torah
• worshipping an other unknown God

Who has the power of interpretation of those 2 points, as to confidently dismiss a Prophet as False?

For an example, how do those points refute Jesus, when Jesus offered his Message was from God.

I also offer, that these two criteria are also reflected in the Writings of Jesus the Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

Sure. Wiki is your friend for quick references:

"Early traditions and stories explain this verse as a miracle performed by Muhammad, following requests of some members of the Quraysh.[8][9] Most early and medieval Muslim commentators accepted the authenticity of those traditions, which allude to the Moon-splitting as a historical event.[10] The following verse 54:2, "But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, 'This is (but) transient magic'" is taken in the support of this view.[9] The post-classical commentator ibn Kathir provides a list of the early traditions mentioning the incident: A tradition transmitted on the authority of Anas ibn Malik states that Muhammad split the Moon after the pagan Meccans asked for a miracle. Another tradition from Malik transmitted through other chains of narrations, mentions that Jabal al-Nour was visible between the two parts of the Moon (Mount Nur is located in Hijaz. Muslims believe that Muhammad received his first revelations from God in a cave on this mountain, the Cave of Hira'). A tradition narrated on the authority of Jubayr ibn Muṭʽim with a single chain of transmission says that the two parts of the Moon stood on two mountains. This tradition further states that the Meccan responded by saying "Muhammad has taken us by his magic... If he was able to take us by magic, he will not be able to do so with all people." Traditions transmitted on the authority of ibn Abbas briefly mention the incident and do not provide much details.[2] Traditions transmitted on the authority of Abdullah ibn Masud describe the incident as follows: "We were along with God's Messenger at Mina, that Moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. God's Messenger said to us: Bear witness to this."039:6725[2][11]

The narrative was used by some later Muslims to convince others of the prophethood of Muhammad. Annemarie Schimmel for example quotes the following from Muslim scholar Qadi Ayyad, who worked in the 12th century:

It has not been said of any people on the earth that the Moon was observed that night such that it could be stated that it was not split. Even if this had been reported from many different places, so that one would have to exclude the possibility that all agreed upon a lie, yet, we would not accept this as proof to the contrary, for the Moon is not seen in the same way by different people... An eclipse is visible in one country but not in the other one; in one place it is total, in the other one only partial.[6]

Other perspectives
The Muslim scholar Yusuf Ali provides three different interpretations of the verse. He holds that perhaps all three are applicable to the verse: Moon once appeared cleft asunder at the time of Muhammad in order to convince the unbelievers. It will split again when the day of judgment approaches (here the prophetic past tense is taken to indicate the future). Yusuf Ali connects this incident with the disruption of the solar system mentioned in 75:8–9. Lastly, he says that the verses can be metaphorical, meaning that the matter has become clear as the Moon.[12]

Some dissenting commentators who do not accept the miracle narration believe that the verse only refers to the splitting of the Moon at the day of judgment.[9][13] Likewise, M. A. S. Abdel Haleem writes:

The Arabic uses the past tense, as if that Day were already here, to help the reader/listener imagine how it will be. Some traditional commentators hold the view that this describes an actual event at the time of the Prophet, but it clearly refers to the end of the world.[14]

Western historians such as A. J. Wensinck and Denis Gril, reject the historicity of the miracle arguing that the Qur'an itself denies miracles, in their traditional sense, in connection with Muhammad.[7][15]"

Splitting of the Moon - Wikipedia



I was quoting the Leviticus 20:9

“’Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head."

You seem to believe everything a Muslim says about a verse in the Qur'an. Thats great that you trust Muslims so much. You should trust them in other things too.

 

[Koldo]

The Prophets knew exactly what was going to happen but they did not state it with precision because their purpose for stating it was not to convince people they were Prophets.

That's quite... convenient, isn't it?

 

[Koldo]

You seem to believe everything a Muslim says about a verse in the Qur'an. Thats great that you trust Muslims so much. You should trust them in other things too.

I have no idea how you have reached such conclusion.

 

[firedragon]

I have no idea how you have reached such conclusion.

Well, I asked for your interpretation and things that you know about the moon being split, but you gave what Muslims say from a wiki source. So you must be believing what Muslims say a hell of a lot. Also, some of the most dogmatic, traditional, narration believing muslims who gave hypothesis's.

 

[dybmh]

Who has the power of interpretation of those 2 points, as to confidently dismiss a Prophet as False?

For an example, how do those points refute Jesus, when Jesus offered his Message was from God.

The book of John almost exclusively avoids speaking about God. Instead it speaks about a being called "The Father". If you look at the quote I posted Jesus calls him "My Father" not "Our Father". These little details mean a lot to me.

I also offer, that these two criteria are also reflected in the Writings of Jesus the Christ.

I'm not so sure. It seems to me that there are multiple characters named Jesus in the gospels. The Jesus in the book of John seems different to me. It could be that one of the other Jesuses promised not to change the law, but somehow that's what happened.

Regards Tony

All the best to you and yours,