How do we reconcile medical research with excessive population growth?

[HonestJoe]

well, most medical research shows that quality of life = longevity.

I don't think it's that simple. Obviously generally improving someone's health is likely to improve their longevity but the purpose is quality. Even where a development is about making people live longer, it is about living well longer, not just extra years of pain and suffering.
We have treatments that are about preventing people dying but we'll only use (and pay for) them if the patient will have a certainly level of quality life as a result. As I said, we are in a position where we could keep most human bodies running pretty much indefinitely but we don't. There are plenty of cases where someone is in a coma, not at risk of immediate death but also unlikely to recover and we choose to turn off life support. In many cases, such patients are even "helped to die" with heavy doses of pain morphine and the like (this is typically illegal but it still happens).

Japan and Korea are two of the most productive centers of medical biology. It's not about being western.

Too true. I didn't intend to discredit such places. The distinction is very much developed and developing, which are ever changing by definition.

I' not sure what you mean by your last paragraph. Are you trying to say that recent medical research has not decreased mortality and morbidity of human disease?

It has and will continue to do so, but only to a point. I think it's a case of ever diminishing returns and the biggest steps were taken some time ago. They're still not always as widely available in many parts of the world as they are to us though.

 

[BSM1]

Because biodiesel and electric engines do not exist. And again need a change in the food paradigm. I don't need lettuce from California I need it from my back yard/roof top/ community garden etc.

Just a thought, are you feeding yourself now from a roof/window/backyard garden? If so, are you providing for all your needs? BTW I have been looking at solar power since 1972. The technology still hasn't reach the point where the cost is less than than the benefit.

 

[Iti oj]

Just a thought, are you feeding yourself now from a roof/window/backyard garden? If so, are you providing for all your needs? BTW I have been looking at solar power since 1972. The technology still hasn't reach the point where the cost is less than than the benefit.

I'm starting to but learning curve is pretty high and I lack the resources to build the proper system so I'm adding bit by bit, experiment by experiment. I'm luck and smart though I choose and found an apartment with a south face balcony. So I have great sun light. I spent all summer composting, I plan on using the compost to build a raised bed bellow my balcony.. A raised bed should increase my yeild.

On my balcony I am growing out of containers, but I'm to poor to afford the proper one's, luckily I know how to make liquid plant food, for green growth at least. Crushed egg shells and used coffee grinds.

My bean plants failed, I forgot to inculcate them, among other issues.

I'm designing a vertical system but I lack resources.

I also need a water pump and some gold fish so i can run an aquaponics system. A small piece of PVC would help to.

I have no where to keep rabbits and chickens, though the complex I live in does, it's just not mind to use and silly rules about keeping animals.

I expect my fall garden to produce more food then my summer garden and my next summer/spring garden even more.
I should be able to have 2 maybe 3 salads a week starting next month.


I'm also in to. Sprouting and have two sprout towers, thanks to our member, I think freedom elf. I can produce a sprout salad every day.

I'm also into foraging, and I live in an amazing area for it. Mad wild fruit. 3 kinds of raspberries blueberries or something related, blackberry, grapes sososo much. Crab apples to, though I haven't started using them. I would eat several weeds but their not an area for harvest I consider clean and safe.

I've also been looking into farming and homesteading and have been communicating with farmers.

And I'm limited in what area I can use and the resources to build systems.

 

[Ouroboros]

well, most medical research shows that quality of life = longevity.

Then I must disagree with most medical research. I didn't know that's what they have figured out. I wonder how they reasoned behind that, because I think the quality of life = good health, shelter, proper food, good company, and things like that.

When I'm in pain (I have bad knees), and can barely walk or the leg gives out while I'm walking, it's terrible. I'm not sure I want to live 100 years handicapped in a hospital bed. I rather have a short but good quality life. Quality of life doesn't necessarily equal quantity of years to me.

So I'm curious how all these research came to that conclusion.

 

[ScottySatan]

Then I must disagree with most medical research. I didn't know that's what they have figured out. I wonder how they reasoned behind that, because I think the quality of life = good health, shelter, proper food, good company, and things like that.

When I'm in pain (I have bad knees), and can barely walk or the leg gives out while I'm walking, it's terrible. I'm not sure I want to live 100 years handicapped in a hospital bed. I rather have a short but good quality life. Quality of life doesn't necessarily equal quantity of years to me.

So I'm curious how all these research came to that conclusion.

What is meant by that is, if you have a low quality of life and you're unhappy about it, you're not going to live as long.

 

[ScottySatan]

I don't think it's that simple. Obviously generally improving someone's health is likely to improve their longevity but the purpose is quality. Even where a development is about making people live longer, it is about living well longer, not just extra years of pain and suffering.
We have treatments that are about preventing people dying but we'll only use (and pay for) them if the patient will have a certainly level of quality life as a result. As I said, we are in a position where we could keep most human bodies running pretty much indefinitely but we don't. There are plenty of cases where someone is in a coma, not at risk of immediate death but also unlikely to recover and we choose to turn off life support. In many cases, such patients are even "helped to die" with heavy doses of pain morphine and the like (this is typically illegal but it still happens).

Too true. I didn't intend to discredit such places. The distinction is very much developed and developing, which are ever changing by definition.

It has and will continue to do so, but only to a point. I think it's a case of ever diminishing returns and the biggest steps were taken some time ago. They're still not always as widely available in many parts of the world as they are to us though.

You're right, it's not that simple, but with the time and space I've got, I have to summarize.

As I said above, what is meant here is that if you're suffering and unhappy about it, you're not going to live as long.

Improvements in medical outcomes are not slowing down. Where did you see that?

 

[Twilight Hue]

We don't have a population problem but resource management problem.

Right. It's not sustainability that's in peril. There are adequate resources for a very very long time, but greed and power paints a good picture of fake desperation.

 

[psychoslice]

Well I've done my bit, I never had children, and I'm happy as hell.:tigger:

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Help people be healthy and then give out condoms. That is the best way.

 

[Sapiens]

It is my understanding that one of the best ways to cut the rate of population growth is a better standard of living, which includes advanced medical care.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The amount of arable land also isn't a fixed quantity. This is one area where technological improvements have had major impacts: there is land that was considered useless decades ago that is now farmland.

Case in point - this story made the news over the weekend:

Attempts to desalinate sea water are going on around the globe – the UK has a£270m plant on the river Thames*and Saudi Arabia produces 70% of its drinking water through desalination. But removing the dissolved minerals is expensive, requires much energy and the leftover concentrated brine has to be disposed of. The process is far too expensive to be used for irrigation in poorer countries. But thanks to a partnership with Dutch development consultants MetaMeta, several tonnes of the Texel seed potatoes are now on their way to Pakistan where thousands of hectares of what until now had been unproductive land because of sea water encroachment have been set aside for them.

Humble spud poised to launch a world food revolution | Science | The Observer