How do you be a Christian when the Bible is so faulty?

[Subduction Zone]

Jewish exegetes who read the Scriptures (including the New Testament!) with ‘Jewish eyes through Jewish glasses’ emphasise that Jesus is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time. This is, in fact, customary terminology in rabbinical discussion. The opinion of previous Torah exegetes is given first; thereafter the speaker gives his own interpretation as a contribution to the correct understanding (the ‘establishment’) of the Torah. Jesus is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time and this corresponds with the usual rabbinical way of saying: ‘wa ani omeer lachem’, which is not an introduction to a contradiction of the Torah, but, on the contrary, an elucidation thereof. "Far from being ‘unique‘, this is a basic tenet of the ‘verbal Torah’ and accordingly it has many parallels in the Talmudic writings. ‘You have heard’ or ‘It is said’ followed by ‘And I say to you’ actually constitute a pair of fixed expressions in the basic vocabulary of rabbinical rhetoric."[ Jesus uses the common way of speaking to give His Torah explanation, and that He in no way intends to express Himself ‘antithetically’ about Torah and tradition, and that He intends the radically break with it even less. That is a Christian construction that came afterwards.

Context is everything

You missed the point of his post.

 

[pearl]

You missed the point of his post.

How so? If the Bible is to be understood at all it must be within a historical, literary, cultural, political, and faith context. To think that we have the 'exact' words of Jesus is ludicrous given that Jesus wrote nothing, nor did any apostle prior to his death.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How so? If the Bible is to be understood at all it must be within a historical, literary, cultural, political, and faith context. To think that we have the 'exact' words of Jesus is ludicrous given that Jesus wrote nothing, nor did any apostle prior to his death.

Really? I don't think so. It appears that you are trying to claim that one must believe the myths of the Bible to understand the Bible.

But it appears you may have finally gotten his point about the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[TruePathFinder]

I am not going to become a Christian. The Bible is too offputting and I need to be able to hear God's voice to believe in him. The silence is too great. The only reason I have to be a Christian is fear of Hell. I can't live a false life just for that reason.

 

[pearl]

It appears that you are trying to claim that one must believe the myths of the Bible to understand the Bible.

Not at all, in fact just the opposite, to demythologize by distinguishing the truth to be believed in faith from the form (myth) used by the author to convey what is to be believed, by identifying the cultural, literary, historical, etc. Identifying the sitz im laben, (situation in life).

 

[Bill Van Fleet]

It is good you asked this. Otherwise I would not have done it. There were 2 lines that you need to re-edit IMO. Then it is even better, they were implying the opposite of what the rest of your site was about. I guess it was a "slip of the pen". I let you know in a personal message. Was late yesterday night, I hope I can find it back.

I had not realized that you were saying that you had let me know in a personal message. I thought you were planning to, and suggested that we do it here, to benefit others. But if you have sent a personal message, I have not received it, and don't know how I would find it. Anyway, I still hope to hear from you.

 

[jac]

Noahs ark
Evolution instead of creation
Jesus said he will come back in the lifetime of those present
Contradictions you just have to google. There are boatloads.

No one can prove inter species evolution. That is monkey to man etc. Changes within a species is a different matter and I do not see this as anti-biblical. You should note however that when man tries to do this it normally does not have good long term results. So believing in creation or evolution is a matter of faith in either case. And to me creation makes has a better case.

Jesus did not say in the lifetime to those present. He just said he would come back and for his followers to be prepared for the day.

As for the contradictions, I have looked at most if not all of them and they are trivial and easily explained. And none of them take away from the central message of the bible.

 

[Jake Dober]

I am of the opinion that Jesus was perhaps really god. There may be truth in Christianity. But the Bible is full of so many contradictions and mistakes that it puts me off. How can I become a Christian when the Bible is so full of imperfections?

If you're confused about what the Bible means read The Book of Mormon to help you fill in the gaps. And if you're still confused listen to the words of living prophets. April 2018 General Conference Talks Because God restored His church to the earth we don't have to be confused. His church is lead by revelation given to prophets and to every person who desires to receive revelation. Revelation is the key for all of us to discern what is true and what is not.

 

[Jake Dober]

Most "Christians" follow the teachings of Paul and not Jesus. When in doubt go back and review the two commandments Jesus gave his disciples. This will put you on a better path.

Good counsel. The two great commandments never lead us down an incorrect path. And remember too that you don't have to rely only upon the Bible to find truth. You can receive revelation individually. And God has given additional scripture in The Book of Mormon. On top of these blessings we have also been blessed with living prophets. Never has God given more guidance to His children than what He is doing in our current time, the dispensation of the fulness of times spoken of in the Bible.

April 2018 General Conference Talks

Book of Mormon | LDS.org

 

[Joshua Tilghman]

Maybe a different kind of interpretation will help clear up the Bible being faulty. Take a look, what do you have to lose?

Interpretations.

 

[tayla]

I am of the opinion that Jesus was perhaps really god. There may be truth in Christianity. But the Bible is full of so many contradictions and mistakes that it puts me off. How can I become a Christian when the Bible is so full of imperfections?

You have to choose: (1) either the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God and Jesus is deity, or (2) the Bible is an untrustworthy source of knowledge, including about Jesus and who he is (if he even existed at all).

 

[Trailblazer]

You have to choose: (1) either the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God and Jesus is deity, or (2) the Bible is an untrustworthy source of knowledge, including about Jesus and who he is (if he even existed at all).

Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't there be a middle ground?

 

[Bill Van Fleet]

It is good you asked this. Otherwise I would not have done it. There were 2 lines that you need to re-edit IMO. Then it is even better, they were implying the opposite of what the rest of your site was about. I guess it was a "slip of the pen". I let you know in a personal message. Was late yesterday night, I hope I can find it back.

I still hope you will give me that feedback. The website is humanianity.com. I appreciate your responses and interest.

 

[stvdv]

I still hope you will give me that feedback. The website is humanianity.com. I appreciate your responses and interest.

Hello Bill,
I send you a "personal conversation" on monday. It is still there as far as I see. Did you miss that?
In my laptop you need to click the "envelop" in the right top corner [see the picture]

 

[Bill Van Fleet]

Hello Bill,
I send you a "personal conversation" on monday. It is still there as far as I see. Did you miss that?
In my laptop you need to click the "envelop" in the right top corner [see the picture]

Yes, I missed that, but have now read it and want to respond. But first, would it be okay with you to take your message to me and put it here in public? That would benefit (hopefully) others also, and they would be able to contribute. If not, I will be glad to answer by personal message. But please give my idea some consideration. I am interested in hearing multiple responses and ideas, and have a strong belief that that is very important.

 

[stvdv]

29 jun 2018 stvdv 014 03

Yes, I missed that, but have now read it and want to respond. But first, would it be okay with you to take your message to me and put it here in public? That would benefit (hopefully) others also, and they would be able to contribute. If not, I will be glad to answer by personal message. But please give my idea some consideration. I am interested in hearing multiple responses and ideas, and have a strong belief that that is very important.

Fine with me. First impression of your site is good. Good layout, easy to the eye, seems the focus is Love, not religion. So humanity, not God.
[I do think it is better that you create a new POST just for this, so all "stays on topic so to speak"]
HUMANIANITY - GENERAL INTRO

On your website (above link) I found under the TAB called "Podcast" 3 lines that caught my attention [see below; attention is in red]
Of course it's good to get people's attention, but my first thought after attention was "Yeah, here we go again, another one thinking he knows best"
But because I always give the other the benefit of the doubt, I thought I better ask first what he means by this, maybe it is positive after all.
And it does happen, almost never, that my first impression is wrong [okay that is one of the few times I am joking]

Book1: For Everyone: Rational-Ethical Living And The Emergence of "Homo Rationalis": The Most Important Book (5/19/2006)
Book2: For Everyone: Humanianity: The Most Important Religion (11/16/2012)
Book3: For Everyone: The Mind-Body Problem (And Free Will Vs Determinism): The Most Important Philosophical Problem (10/26/2012)

 

[Bill Van Fleet]

29 jun 2018 stvdv 014 03

Fine with me. First impression of your site is good. Good layout, easy to the eye, seems the focus is Love, not religion. So humanity, not God.
[I do think it is better that you create a new POST just for this, so all "stays on topic so to speak"]
HUMANIANITY - GENERAL INTRO

On your website (above link) I found under the TAB called "Podcast" 3 lines that caught my attention [see below; attention is in red]
Of course it's good to get people's attention, but my first thought after attention was "Yeah, here we go again, another one thinking he knows best"
But because I always give the other the benefit of the doubt, I thought I better ask first what he means by this, maybe it is positive after all.
And it does happen, almost never, that my first impression is wrong [okay that is one of the few times I am joking]

Book1: For Everyone: Rational-Ethical Living And The Emergence of "Homo Rationalis": The Most Important Book (5/19/2006)
Book2: For Everyone: Humanianity: The Most Important Religion (11/16/2012)
Book3: For Everyone: The Mind-Body Problem (And Free Will Vs Determinism): The Most Important Philosophical Problem (10/26/2012)

Yes, I understand your reaction to those phrases, because they sound grandiose. To clarify, those phrases are subtitles of the books, and in Book1 the subtitle is explained in the chapter "Introduction: The Most Important Book," along with my stating my recognition that although it seemed that way to me, I could certainly be wrong, and am waiting to see what the opinions of others are. And in Book3 the subtitle is explained in the "Preface," again with the recognition that I could be wrong and that the assessments by others will help to determine that. I did not do a good job of explaining the subtitle precisely in the second example, but I think it should be evident why I believe it from studying the website (humanianity.com). (I don't believe the quality of the second book is as good as the other two books.)

I would of course be interested in your reasons, after you have read mine, for your belief that those subtitles are wrong (if you still believe that). So far, I have not changed my mind. But we could take a look at your specific concerns and alternative ideas.

I like the idea of starting a new topic with a request of those interested in doing so to critique that website. I was not able to see how to go about starting a new topic, and I was indeed, I thought, responding to the original topic, which I felt was very important.

I appreciate your feedback and interest, and hope we can continue dialogue while being more specific regarding the problematic issues. And I will look again for a way to actually start a new topic (help will be appreciated).

(I also recognize that a general critiquing of the website would be off-topic here, so if I can find out how to start a new topic, I probably will do that in hopes of our continuing and getting other ideas also.)

 

[Bill Van Fleet]

I finally found out how to do it, and started a thread under Interfaith Discussion. But back to the current thread, I maintain that the Bible is not faulty. It should not be regarded as an historical documentation or a procedure manual, much less a science textbook; it should be regarded as part of our diary and studied as such. That will give us greater perspective on who we (as a species) are, what we were like in the past, how far we have come since then, and where we are headed. It should help us to stop our tribalistic conflict, and help us to realize our potential as a species on this planet.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

I am of the opinion that Jesus was perhaps really god. There may be truth in Christianity. But the Bible is full of so many contradictions and mistakes that it puts me off. How can I become a Christian when the Bible is so full of imperfections?

Translations can be faulty such as some older translations, but I suggest maybe the English Standard Version or New American Standard Bible both of which are newer, and based on older and more manuscripts, and the King James Version is too old to understand. You can search any translation by clicking one of the links in my signature. Please show me the isssues, and thank you.

 

[TruePathFinder]

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
This is a start