How Do You Believe You bring/make Heaven on Earth.

[PureX]

What is your job in this case? Or effort?

To be my authentic self. To contribute my uniqueness to the whole of it (the Tao).

 

[SalixIncendium]

I guess that is my lack of communication (the poll has a word limit) - but in the explanation I categorized that as option 2

Thanks for the clarification. I went ahead and voted option 2.

 

[Colt]

Do I understand, then, IYV, that it would be #2 where man works his way into making heaven on earth?

Not exactly, I see man as choosing God or forsaking him. If we choose God, then salvation can be taken for granted individually. On a global scale a majority of mankind choosing God (and managing society) will lead to peace on earth.

 

[Erebus]

Did you vote #4? (with the caveat of no "absolute guarantee") - As currently viewed, there will never be a heaven on earth?

I did, yes.

I added the caveat because I'm hesitant to make definitive statements about the future. Humanity could surprise me or I could be wrong about the existence of an omnimax God. Based on my current knowledge and experience though, I don't believe there will ever be heaven on Earth.

 

[Kenny]

For you? Yep!!

As you know, not religious. But I'm a teacher by profession, and very invested in basketball coaching. And a parent, but I'm not sure that comes into it too much.

Kids who don't take risks, and aren't willing...or empowered...to make mistakes don't really learn or achieve. At least, not to their potential. Making mistakes in life is good. Making the same mistake repetitively, not so much.

Perfection...in my world view and in my experience...doesn't exist. Rather than trying to live up to an unrealistic ideal, and seeing each mistake as a failing, we are better to take the next incremental step forward, and treat each mistake as a lesson to learn from.

I understand... a great lesson to teach and its great that you get to teach these young people a great fact.

Perfection as we see today is indeed and impossibility!

Well said!

On a faith side, this is what we teach too!

 

[wizanda]

You have been sent with instructions. So, no need to say IMHO. You (simply) know, and no one else does. I have not come across anyone here who says that he has been sent by God.

As stating if here is Middle Earth or the Maya, it is a world of delusions and desires...

So often there is a pecking order, and people will get offended if you enforce an opinion; so I've been asked multiple times by different groups to stipulate, "I believe, in my opinion, in my interpretation", etc.

Plus I find it more courteous, so I keep to the rules set.

But if there is a God, then there is no oneness.

We exist inside a quantum matrix, where it is formulated by a central Source - So there is a Oneness of quantum code, and there is a Oneness of the singularity where reality stems from.

In my opinion.

 

[sayak83]

Is it man becoming as gods to make heaven on earth or is it man to through his efforts to become a god or one with a presence, or is it God coming to man to help him make heaven on earth?

Maybe there are other variations?

I chose the God coming down to earth to eventually make heaven on earth. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob by the sending of what we call the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world as the answer for the world and its issues.

Looking at the first option where man is a god and that he has the ultimate answer to today societal problems. As I view today, the results of man and his efforts, I don’t see that as a possible answer even over time.

With all the technology, capacity and innovation, I don’t see man as having the answers that man needs. As one need is answered others pop up and the problems continue.

When one answer comes to sickness, another pops up.

I don’t see that really changing over time which is why I don’t subscribe to option one. (Not that you can’t subscribe to it but I just don’t see it.)

The second would be that man through any type of works can achieve godhood or be part of the power or a universal presence. Whether by the denial of earthly desires, trying to be free from attachments, or simply trying to be the best person one can be… it just appears to me that we still come short.

We can maybe enumerate with one hand possible candidates. Buddha, Gandhi, Jesus, and maybe a few others, would be the only ones that perhaps may qualify.

Looking at my life I know I wouldn’t qualify. Of the thousands I have met over my lifetime, I know they wouldn’t qualify.

So I can’t see how “working your way up; denying your way up; reincarnating your way up” – just doesn’t seem like a possibility to me. Earth hasn’t progressed so I don’t see that as a viable option even over time.

Thus, I trust the third way where God comes down and actually lifts us up. Though temporarily we could say “for all the believers in Jesus Christ, the world is still the same”, the ultimate end is that God still comes down and brings Heaven to earth.

Not by works, not by human ingenuity or human capacity, but as a free gift of love.

How do you view it?

Earths will be earths and heavens will be heavens. Souls may move from one to the other, but they remain what they are.
In any case, these are only from relative notions.

 

[metis]

Maybe there are other variations?

I don't believe "heaven on earth", especially with you here.

But seriously, I don't see any reason to believe that this is possible, but then what do I know.

Either way, I do believe we should act on basic religious and/or humanistic morals and then let the chips fall where they may.

 

[metis]

Personally, I believe that we are like a toilet paper roll.

Maybe for you, but that's a rather crappy position to take.

in this case as it would require man to work himself into obeying the moral code.

Which "moral code" as there are so many of them?

What is your job in this case? Or effort?

In my case, to try and leave my little corner of the world at least a bit better off when I leave by emphasizing love and compassion minus hatred and violence.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe for you, but that's a rather crappy position to take.

Which "moral code" as there are so many of them?

In my case, to try and leave my little corner of the world at least a bit better off when I leave by emphasizing love and compassion minus hatred and violence.

"Which moral code?" - that was in reference to the poster.... which one wasn't the issue but the concept..

As far as toilet paper, one could say that the world's position on many issues is, indeed, quite crappy! IMHO

 

[Kenny]

I don't believe "heaven on earth", especially with you here.

But seriously, I don't see any reason to believe that this is possible, but then what do I know.

Either way, I do believe we should act on basic religious and/or humanistic morals and then let the chips fall where they may.

I'm going to make sure I live RIGHT NEXT to you... help you with your patience and love

Yes, live today the best way you can.

As with Heaven on earth, to quote a famous person, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

 

[Link]

Salam

Impact level. We all have potential of impact, more then we carry and believe possible. Enough people impact positive way under guidance of God and Imam (a) and under their plan, and things will quickly change.

Wait for the Mahdi (a) and Jesus (a) to return without preparing, and the end results will be a catastrophe, though Mahdi (a), Jesus (a), Elijah (a), Idris (a), and others coming back is supposed to be a mercy for humanity, we might accuse them all of being sorcerers, time will tell. If we look to our leaders to lead us, they will lead us against them for sure. If we await passively, the destruction will be massive and very few believers will be the result.

The Devils from Jinn and sorcerers from humans constantly plan, but with some effort and resolve and courage, their plans fall apart.

Part of the deception is to make everyone believe they can't do much. Everyone can do something, and a lot more then they think.

But if I don't do my impact potentially, all this is hypocrisy, so I pray God guides be by the hands of Imam (a) of our time and gets me to my full potential of impact level. Amen.

 

[stvdv]

Interesting... if we need wisdom/love (God), how do we get it?

My favorite Scripture, the Yoga Vasistha, explains in detail how to get this Wisdom:
In short: Use "Self-Effort", see the quote, to "know the self" (Wisdom)

Bhagavan Vasistha continued:
Having obtained a body free from disease and a mind free from doubt, one should try to know the self such that he prevent the birth again.

Self-effort has threefold root and therefore threefold fruit – An inner awakening in the intelligence, a decision in the mind and the physical action.
Self effort is based on these three – Knowledge of scriptures, instruction of the preceptor, and one’s own effort. Fate does not enter here. He who desires salvation should divert the impure mind to pure endeavor by persistent effort – this is the very essence of all scriptures.

 

[sun rise]

I agree that we are invited to be part of the transfiguration process and help it progression.

But ultimately, is your position then that we eventually make heaven on earth? Curious.

In imagery think about the ending of winter and the beginning of spring. There comes a time to sow crops and plant flowers.

God has decreed the ending of winter. We're invited to "sow crops" to take advantage of the spring. By doing so, we bring "food" and "beauty" more fully to life.

Another slightly different way of looking at what I mean is what attributed to St. Teresa of Avila speaking to her nuns:

Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which He looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which He walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which He blesses all the world.
...
...

 

[Kenny]

In imagery think about the ending of winter and the beginning of spring. There comes a time to sow crops and plant flowers.

God has decreed the ending of winter. We're invited to "sow crops" to take advantage of the spring. By doing so, we bring "food" and "beauty" more fully to life.

Another slightly different way of looking at what I mean is what attributed to St. Teresa of Avila speaking to her nuns:

Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which He looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which He walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which He blesses all the world.
...
...

Beautifully said!

your quote is often used in our services paraphrased. (Though I didn't know that St Teresa had said it.)

 

[Kenny]

My favorite Scripture, the Yoga Vasistha, explains in detail how to get this Wisdom:
In short: Use "Self-Effort", see the quote, to "know the self" (Wisdom)

We certainly do need to "know the self"!

We hold that the very person of God, the Holy Spirit, lives inside of us and actually give us the wisdom and teaches us how to "know the self" and what to do with "self"

 

[Aštra’el]

Just curious... did you vote? If so, which one?

#3

 

[RestlessSoul]

This Caesar’s world isn’t it? Therefore, the things of enduring value are not of this world.

 

[InChrist]

Except salvation is a Christian idea (that was stolen from the Jews), so not applicable to other forms of theism. But you do admit a major flaw in salvation in that Christians can feel they can take it for granted. I have heard many Christians believe they cannot damage their salvation once they accept Jesus, so have no obligation to be moral or decent. This certainly is apparent in how Christians behave, often in ways contrary to moral sense, greed, indifference to the suffering of others, theft, cheating, lying, etc.


Yeah, that has a long history of not working. Look at all the religious wars that have been endured. Look at Islamic extremism if you believe "choosing God" leads to peace.

There may be a lot of “ professing Christians” who think they can take the death of God’s beloved Son on the cross lightly by living immoral, indecent lives, being greedy, cheating or harming others, yet assuming they are guaranteed salvation. But do you really think they will get away with anything like that when they stand before a Holy, Righteous Judge?
And what do the scriptures say?
There will be many wolves in sheep’s clothing who infiltrate the church (Matthew 7:15). Yet, God will not be mocked (Galatians 6:7). In the end Jesus knows those who are truly His and will say to many claiming His name, “I never knew you, depart from Me you evildoers”.(Matthew 7:23)

 

[Treks]

Is it man becoming as gods to make heaven on earth or is it man to through his efforts to become a god or one with a presence, or is it God coming to man to help him make heaven on earth?
<snip>

Hello

This might be too far off topic, but I was recently reading 2 Peter as part of my morning devotional, and was perplexed by 2 Peter 3:11-13.

11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.​

Do you have any tips about what this means?

In light of this scripture, my answer is #4, at least for now.

Bonus question: does God's Kingdom = Heaven on Earth?

Thanks
Treks