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How do you depart India from Hinduism?

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I have always had a very odd opinion with Hinduism in that I could never detach Hinduism from Indian culture. Obviously of course Hinduism thrives and matured thanks to Indian culture. Hinduism though just seemed too foreign to me and gave me the impression it was something strictly Indian and for the Indians. I never felt that Islam was strictly for Arabs although Arabs make only 25% of Islam roughly and the fact that Arabic is mandatory for rituals.

How do you guys reconcile this issue? I have never been able to put a line between Hinduism and ethnicity in 3 years
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
'Dharma', the Hindu way of life can be followed by any person (fulfillment of obligations and engaging in righteous actions) irrespective of ethnicity or domicile. As for Gods and Goddesses, you have the biggest (or at least one of the biggest) collections to choose from, or not to choose any and consider them stories (moralistic or just fun, as in my case).
 

Sb1995

Om Sai Ram
You'd be surprised. Frankly speaking us Hindu's could care less about numbers unlike other religions (Islam,Christianity). Nor do we convert others or have ever in HISTORY forcefully converted others unlike other religions. You'd be surprised, Hinduism is the fastest growing religion in Ghana (I could care less). But overall I understand what you're saying how 90% of the Hindus are from India.
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
I have always had a very odd opinion with Hinduism in that I could never detach Hinduism from Indian culture. Obviously of course Hinduism thrives and matured thanks to Indian culture. Hinduism though just seemed too foreign to me and gave me the impression it was something strictly Indian and for the Indians. I never felt that Islam was strictly for Arabs although Arabs make only 25% of Islam roughly and the fact that Arabic is mandatory for rituals.

How do you guys reconcile this issue? I have never been able to put a line between Hinduism and ethnicity in 3 years

Well I am a whindu (white Hindu ;) ). So I was able to get passed the racial barrier. In the end though I don't think you can remove India from Hinduism, and I think that is because India was so sculpted by Hinduism. I don't think India sculpted Hinduism but it is the other way around. India is so very Hindu that to learn more about Hinduism one almost HAS TO learn about Indias history. In becoming Hindu you even (whether by choice or not) start acting as a "cultural Indian". Yet this has more to do with the religion and the impact it had on India and not as much about race.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I have always had a very odd opinion with Hinduism in that I could never detach Hinduism from Indian culture. Obviously of course Hinduism thrives and matured thanks to Indian culture. Hinduism though just seemed too foreign to me and gave me the impression it was something strictly Indian and for the Indians. I never felt that Islam was strictly for Arabs although Arabs make only 25% of Islam roughly and the fact that Arabic is mandatory for rituals.

How do you guys reconcile this issue? I have never been able to put a line between Hinduism and ethnicity in 3 years

You can't. Same goes for Buddhism and Jainism and Sikhism.
There are somethings so vehemently Indic about all four that it
would be nonsensical to "depart" India from them. You'll hear
otherwise, but they aren't being intellectually honest nor very
practical. Even most mainstream Indologists will state that it
isn't possible to separate India from the Dharmic faiths nor do
they advise it.​
 

Makaranda

Active Member
Unlike Christianity and Islam, Hinduism does not depend upon historical events, geographical places, or even people for its context to be understood. Atman is not Indian. You don't need to be Indian to practice Yoga, and nowadays you don't even need to be a Sanskrit speaker to read and understand the gist of the scriptures. The core of Hinduism is not concerned with any particular person or event in the distant past and one's particular belief about it, but rather is concerned with the nature of oneself here and now. Whether or not one is Indian physically.

I think your opinion viz. Hinduism cannot be distinguished from India is very odd especially when you are contrasting it with Islam. To my eyes the opposite is true. Islam is an Semitic religion. It's an arabic adaption (or retcon) of judaeo-christian theology. Muslims pray towards Mecca, which is in Saudi Arabia. Muslims revere Muhammad- a historical personage from Saudi Arabia. The hadith are concerned with the events of his life in Saudi Arabia and his teachings given to the Arabs he was converting to Islam. The Qur'an is a 'miracle' of Arabic literature, and Muslims say one must learn Arabic because a translation of the text is no longer considered revelation. The concepts of paradise as an oasis and polygamy within Islam reflect cultural and social values of the desert-dwelling Arabs in seventh century Arabia. The imposition of sharia law is arguably the imposition of tribal Arabic modes of government.

The Qur'an, as the Bible, is deeply concerned with the activities of a few people living in distant Israel; its context is local and historically orientated. If you take away the historical events and personages, there is nothing left in these texts. The same simply can't be said of Hinduism. Okay, one might argue that the Mahabharata seems to be making claims that Krishna was a historical personality. Let it be so - whether Krishna was or was not a historical personality, whether or not the great Mahabharata war ever took place thousands of years ago, in no way affects or refutes the validity of Krishna's words in the Gita, or the philosophy and spiritual teachings within the epic. Whether or not the Upanishadic sages, named in the Upanishads, really existed is irrelevant, because the teachings therein stand entirely on their own merit. They don't need a historical context or a personality attached for them to be true. They apply to all people in all times, even now. We don't need to have faith that any of these people existed. It's like saying the Buddha didn't exist. If there was no historical Siddhartha Gautama, then nothing would change, because the teachings are still there. And if the teachings are still there, then we should attribute them to somebody. Let's call that somebody the Buddha. Nothing changes. And likewise, Atman is still Brahman, whether Yajnavalkya said it or not. Whether Uddalaka said it or not. Whether Krishna said it or not. It's universal. So I strongly disagree with you here.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
We often here the term 'cultural Hindu' for an individual who may not exactly follow the philosophy but retains many elements that are normally deemed culture, like food, music, dress.

But there is no denial that the two are intertwined, and much of the culture had it's origin in temples. Much of the great food was originally prasadam, dance used to be in temples, etc.

You can be Hindu philosophically, and not culturally, in varying degrees. This is seen more and more in both westerners adopting Hinduism, and in the NRI community, and also in India itself as globalisation has it's impact. So you can have rice and curry on Tuesday, pizza on Wednesday, go to a Bharata Natyam recital Friday, and a ballet on Saturday.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Unlike Christianity and Islam, Hinduism does not depend upon historical events, geographical places, or even people for its context to be understood. Atman is not Indian. You don't need to be Indian to practice Yoga, and nowadays you don't even need to be a Sanskrit speaker to read and understand the gist of the scriptures. The core of Hinduism is not concerned with any particular person or event in the distant past and one's particular belief about it, but rather is concerned with the nature of oneself here and now. Whether or not one is Indian physically.

I think your opinion viz. Hinduism cannot be distinguished from India is very odd especially when you are contrasting it with Islam. To my eyes the opposite is true. Islam is an Semitic religion. It's an arabic adaption (or retcon) of judaeo-christian theology. Muslims pray towards Mecca, which is in Saudi Arabia. Muslims revere Muhammad- a historical personage from Saudi Arabia. The hadith are concerned with the events of his life in Saudi Arabia and his teachings given to the Arabs he was converting to Islam. The Qur'an is a 'miracle' of Arabic literature, and Muslims say one must learn Arabic because a translation of the text is no longer considered revelation. The concepts of paradise as an oasis and polygamy within Islam reflect cultural and social values of the desert-dwelling Arabs in seventh century Arabia. The imposition of sharia law is arguably the imposition of tribal Arabic modes of government.

The Qur'an, as the Bible, is deeply concerned with the activities of a few people living in distant Israel; its context is local and historically orientated. If you take away the historical events and personages, there is nothing left in these texts. The same simply can't be said of Hinduism. Okay, one might argue that the Mahabharata seems to be making claims that Krishna was a historical personality. Let it be so - whether Krishna was or was not a historical personality, whether or not the great Mahabharata war ever took place thousands of years ago, in no way affects or refutes the validity of Krishna's words in the Gita, or the philosophy and spiritual teachings within the epic. Whether or not the Upanishadic sages, named in the Upanishads, really existed is irrelevant, because the teachings therein stand entirely on their own merit. They don't need a historical context or a personality attached for them to be true. They apply to all people in all times, even now. We don't need to have faith that any of these people existed. It's like saying the Buddha didn't exist. If there was no historical Siddhartha Gautama, then nothing would change, because the teachings are still there. And if the teachings are still there, then we should attribute them to somebody. Let's call that somebody the Buddha. Nothing changes. And likewise, Atman is still Brahman, whether Yajnavalkya said it or not. Whether Uddalaka said it or not. Whether Krishna said it or not. It's universal. So I strongly disagree with you here.

Do you like breakdancing ? I think breakdancing is very hard.

tumblr_mgy13kNdLe1rfteyro1_250.gif
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
What I don't regret is the huge mess it was before, that's for sure.

No kidding. We've come a long way in 6 months, thanks to our moderators.

But Luis , as you know, you're free to start a new thread in comparative, debate. There was a long one going yesterday on the Bhagavad Gita.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
We often here the term 'cultural Hindu' for an individual who may not exactly follow the philosophy but retains many elements that are normally deemed culture, like food, music, dress.

But there is no denial that the two are intertwined, and much of the culture had it's origin in temples. Much of the great food was originally prasadam, dance used to be in temples, etc.

You can be Hindu philosophically, and not culturally, in varying degrees. This is seen more and more in both westerners adopting Hinduism, and in the NRI community, and also in India itself as globalisation has it's impact. So you can have rice and curry on Tuesday, pizza on Wednesday, go to a Bharata Natyam recital Friday, and a ballet on Saturday.

No kidding. Try "departing" Jhulelal or Umiya-Maa from "cultural Hinduism".

Fact is ... you can't.

In fact, South Asian academicians/Indologists & Hindus (both Indian & non-
Indian) came together on Oct. 5, 2013 at Princeton University to discuss the
same thing, while exploring "the 'White Hindus' phenomenon", which was a
"Symposium on Sanatana Dharma, Race, and Identity". Wish I could have
gone - but I live far away and I'm not an academician.​
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
How do you guys reconcile this issue? I have never been able to put a line between Hinduism and ethnicity in 3 years

Personally, I'm coming up to 40 years and I've never seen it as something to reconcile at all, but then I love Indian culture. There are lots of people who don't though, and hence we have some westernised blended versions.

o what is it you feel so 'out of place' with?
 

Makaranda

Active Member
That's a beautiful square cut by Lara.

Sorry for the randomness. Haven't heard from
you in a very long time. Was just trying to say
in my very odd & random way: Flawless Post by
Makaranda.​


Haha, I like the randomness. :)

Lots of rest and repose in myself lately. Got one eye on the forum though.

:beach:
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
I think your perception is also colored by the fact that for whatever reason, by whatever method, westerners have been taught to believe that you have to be Indian to be Hindu and because the culture is so intertwined it certainly looks that way sometimes. But think about it -

My parents are Christians...but they aren't Galilean Jews. They don't feel any disconnect there. Maybe that has to do with the different views on spreading religion all over the world (In Hinduism, there is no such compulsion, generally)

You do walk a line. I will never be culturally Indian and it would be ignorant for me to try and act or pretend to be a "part of the club". But I"m not interested, ultimately, I those aspects. I love Indian food, music, movies and clothes, but I make sure to enjoy them in context and not take ownership of them.

I had many fears for a long time (occasionally they still pop up) that I as being disrespectful or misappropriating Indian cultural things - that I was "getting all the benefits with none of the responsibility" and what have you.

But to be honest? I have never gotten anything but a positive reaction from Indians when I dress in Indian clothe sat temple, or manage to handle the spiciest Indian mood, or manage to remember at least some of the words to the arti prayer.

My only adversary in this has been other white people...and the voice in my own head.

:camp:
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I have always had a very odd opinion with Hinduism in that I could never detach Hinduism from Indian culture. Obviously of course Hinduism thrives and matured thanks to Indian culture. Hinduism though just seemed too foreign to me and gave me the impression it was something strictly Indian and for the Indians. I never felt that Islam was strictly for Arabs although Arabs make only 25% of Islam roughly and the fact that Arabic is mandatory for rituals.

How do you guys reconcile this issue? I have never been able to put a line between Hinduism and ethnicity in 3 years

In addition to what Makaranda said:

Hinduism recognises two aspects: the vishesha (the particular) and the samanya (the general).

The samanya (the universal aspect) that makaranda speaks has had its influence all over .. such as with the Transcendentalists of America, Theosophists, and at present with so called Neo-s.

The vishesha aspect (the particular) is tied to culture and time. It may or may not appeal to all. But as far as I know, Yoga-s as taught in Gita do not require much adherence to the particulars.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
How do you guys reconcile this issue? I have never been able to put a line between Hinduism and ethnicity in 3 years

Well, I am a catholic-raised white American suburbanite.

My interest in Hinduism came out of my interest in the paranormal. Which first lead me to Theosophy because my curious mind wanted to know how these things could possibly be. Theosophy provided an expanded view of the material universe in which these paranormal things became part of the normal. Where did they get their ideas and framework; from the great seers and masters of India that perceive beyond the world of our senses. As time I went on I become objectively convinced that the highest attainment of spiritual knowledge originated in India. I believe the west made the greatest contribution to material advances but the east (India) has made the greatest contribution to spiritual advances. Advaita Vedanta, I have come to believe, is the highest spiritual philosophy.

There are probably thousands of things about the very complicated Indian culture and Hinduism (groups,sects, sects of sects) I don't understand very well. But these aspects are not all that important to me personally. Only the teachings of Advaita and how one should live under this philosophy are important to me.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I believe the west made the greatest contribution to material advances

Nothing wrong with material advances. In fact, I'm one of the very few that
outrightly acknowledges that this wonderful laptop that I am typing from is
a Western invention of great intricacy, complexity, and progressive thinking.​
 
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