How do you "know" that others are wrong and you are right?

[Spirit of Light]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Many, religious and non-religious alike, are unable to manage their egos and are overcome by the urge to be right.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

Its a feeling. I feel like they are wrong. If its a very strong feeling then I know they are. Usually I don't say anything though, because there is risk involved. I'm not the sort of person who speaks confidently about things and won't cash in my friendships for the sake of absolute truths. Take for instance on facebook. A lot of people will try to tell me I'm absolutely wrong on there, but I don't say it back. Its counterproductive, never works. There's always a better way, and I've learned this by observing smooth talkers. They never tackle objections directly. At first I thought this was dishonest, but now I realize its simply that people don't listen. They don't like to be crossed. Benjamin Franklin once wrote about a similar lesson he learned when he was young. He was very smart and also skeptical, but he learned it was counterproductive to always point out incongruities and to explain why he was right and others were wrong. It simply doesn't work. People can't handle it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Its a feeling. I feel like they are wrong. If its a very strong feeling then I know they are. Usually I don't say anything though, because there is risk involved. I'm not the sort of person who speaks confidently about things and won't cash in my friendships for the sake of absolute truths. Take for instance on facebook. A lot of people will try to tell me I'm absolutely wrong on there, but I don't say it back. Its counterproductive, never works. There's always a better way, and I've learned this by observing smooth talkers. They never tackle objections directly. At first I thought this was dishonest, but now I realize its simply that people don't listen. They don't like to be crossed. Benjamin Franklin once wrote about a similar lesson he learned when he was young. He was very smart and also skeptical, but he learned it was counterproductive to always point out incongruities and to explain why he was right and others were wrong. It simply doesn't work. People can't handle it.

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF, so this might be my last OP. But time will tell

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people. And even tell people they are wrong when someone have had a spiritual experience.

 

[Brickjectivity]

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF, so this might be my last OP. But time will tell

Its a public square.

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people. And even tell people they are wrong when someone have had a spiritual experience.

Its more of a defense. Here in the USA we have a lot of missionary activity, and many of us are smothered. I told you that as a child I attended a small school attached to a church. Every week several times per week I listened to sermons and pleadings for people to convert. I heard the same arguments over and over. I would go to a religious bookstore, and hundreds of books all said the same things. I would turn on the radio and someone on the radio would be pleading for people to convert to Christ. We had blue laws preventing certain kinds of business on Sundays. Legally we were free, however we had various social pressures to be Christian and to act Christian. Can you imagine living like this and not being a Christian? It can get to people. It can make them unhappy. Then they want to help other people not to feel so pressured. I think that is why.

 

[SalixIncendium]

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF, so this might be my last OP. But time will tell

I’ll be sad to see you go.

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people. And even tell people they are wrong when someone have had a spiritual experience.

Likely for the same reason theists try to tear down their disbelief and their experiences that led them to their worldview.

Perhaps people would do well to not care so much about what those of other worldviews think of theirs.

 

[Dogknox20]

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF, so this might be my last OP. But time will tell

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people. And even tell people they are wrong when someone have had a spiritual experience.

Question Amanaki do you have another place you can go to?

 

[Vinayaka]

I think, as others have often said, that it's psychological. It's more about not being wrong, than being right. Few folks care to admit they're wrong about something. It's a blow, almost like a physical blow. And logically, just maybe, if they're wrong about something, then they may be wrong about a lot.

I think it's important to see it as a mindset, like the OP is doing. View it in the light of understanding, not through the darkness of emotion. If it was a small child claiming that strawberries are the bestest fruit in the whole darn world, and my Mommy's cooking is too, would you be bothered by it, or would you think it's cute, fully knowing one day that child will come to a more mature belief?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

A lot of people slander religions they "used to" follow. So, they Did have spiritual experiences and can even share those experiences. For example, off of RF I share my spiritual experiences. People think I got the gift from god or so have you because they were both human experiences. As soon as I say I'm not a believer, all of the sudden, I don't have the experience "they" had. Or. I don't understand it. Now I'm putting down their faith. They are the victim.

It really isn't a nonbeliever vs believer thing. (Nonbelievers have spiritual experiences like believers. Some believers do believe but have yet to have spiritual experiences)

The dichotomy us/them is deep seeded in abrahamic spiritual faiths so it could be a backlash from that.

Another thing is where spiritual people (I guess) place their threads. If it's in the debate section, other people feel the need to, well, debate. That doesn't mean they didn't have spiritual experiences. It just means they don't share the same experiences with the people they debate with. There are so many factors. Both sides have their judgement and bias.

 

[columbus]

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF,

Why are you telling us this?

Decide what is best for you and then do it.

Does Fulang Gong teach "Try to make other people feel bad, before you dump the relationship, if you can?"
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF, so this might be my last OP. But time will tell

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people. And even tell people they are wrong when someone have had a spiritual experience.

Are there atheists you can speak with that have had spiritual experiences and don't belittle other people's religions?

I blocked a few people years ago and put some forums in my "favorites" then because I knew conversations in those said forums would be less debative than ones in general debates, etc.

Maybe get a broader range of nonbelievers who do have spiritual experiences, those who do not would grow shorter and shorter.

 

[Secret Chief]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

I believe (haha) the debate sub-forums are basically about arguiung right and wrong. So why not put your OPs exclusively in the discussion sub-forums if you're not wanting verbal argy-bargy?

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

For me it has come to a point where I no longer see a reason to post more here in RF, so this might be my last OP. But time will tell

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people. And even tell people they are wrong when someone have had a spiritual experience.

Amanaki, please don't leave. Did you think only believers could sometimes howl like fanatics? Non-believers struggle with passionate egos, too. Those who don't know or haven't experienced--at either end of the spectrum--are often the shrillest. At least this forum is moderated. A long time ago, after a blistering put down by other posters, I wrote,

"I recently posted in Amazon.com’s “religion” forum (which might more appropriately be called the “atheist” forum). Another lesson learned, that is, fanaticism doesn’t confine itself to those who “believe in God.” There are an equal number of fanatics who “don’t believe in God.” And just like believers, some are quite well-meaning while some are just plain mean. Such variety our Beloved has created here!"​

 

[Spirit of Light]

I’ll be sad to see you go.


Likely for the same reason theists try to tear down their disbelief and their experiences that led them to their worldview.

Perhaps people would do well to not care so much about what those of other worldviews think of theirs.

I have not yet decided if I leave or not

I do not have anything against non belief, and I am not here to convert anyone. But I am here to have fun discussing with other belief and spiritual people.

 

[Quintessence]

There's a concept in psychology called "cognitive dissonance" that can be helpful in contextualizing this aspect of human behavior, @Amanaki .

The basic idea is that persons hold a particular worldview and that when the encounter something that is in conflict with that worldview, it causes mental stress or uncomfortable emotions.

To alleviate this stress, humans respond in only a few different ways. One of those ways is what you remark about in the OP, @Amanaki - denigrate the contradictory data to dismiss it as valid or worthy of consideration. Humans don't just do this with the topic of religion, they do this just in general. In most cases it's benign, honestly, and not worth fussing about when it happens. We're talking about a psychological process that is rooted in all of us. It's not going to go away and there's no sense trying to eliminate it. You've got more control over how you respond to these things than the behavior of other humans.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Question Amanaki do you have another place you can go to?

Not online, no because this forum is the best forum still. In the month I was away I did search to find a new place to discuss, but found all others to be worse then RF.
And honestly I don't dislike RF as a discussion platform. What I dislike is all the trash talk especially toward Islam and Muslims.
Crap send my way I can handle my self.

 

[Spirit of Light]

A lot of people slander religions they "used to" follow. So, they Did have spiritual experiences and can even share those experiences. For example, off of RF I share my spiritual experiences. People think I got the gift from god or so have you because they were both human experiences. As soon as I say I'm not a believer, all of the sudden, I don't have the experience "they" had. Or. I don't understand it. Now I'm putting down their faith. They are the victim.

It really isn't a nonbeliever vs believer thing. (Nonbelievers have spiritual experiences like believers. Some believers do believe but have yet to have spiritual experiences)

The dichotomy us/them is deep seeded in abrahamic spiritual faiths so it could be a backlash from that.

Another thing is where spiritual people (I guess) place their threads. If it's in the debate section, other people feel the need to, well, debate. That doesn't mean they didn't have spiritual experiences. It just means they don't share the same experiences with the people they debate with. There are so many factors. Both sides have their judgement and bias.

You do have a lot of good points, I admit that and I respect your views and understanding.
If I had a dir I was able to discuss my true understanding and show my true knowledge from Falun Gong that would the place I put my OP, but since I am the only current active Falun Gong practitioner here, I have to compromise my own posts sometimes to not get "ridiculed" all the time.

So maybe all this is my own fault. I can see that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why are you telling us this?

Decide what is best for you and then do it.

Does Fulang Gong teach "Try to make other people feel bad, before you dump the relationship, if you can?"
Tom

No it does not teach to make other people feel bad, nor should atheists or other who are unsure about their belief feel bad.

All I ask is to stop the negativity toward religious or spiritual people.
I am sure am not the only one who have this feeling in RF.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are there atheists you can speak with that have had spiritual experiences and don't belittle other people's religions?

I blocked a few people years ago and put some forums in my "favorites" then because I knew conversations in those said forums would be less debative than ones in general debates, etc.

Maybe get a broader range of nonbelievers who do have spiritual experiences, those who do not would grow shorter and shorter.

You are one who I can speak with yes. I know we disagree on many things but you don't come with idiotic comments toward me.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Amanaki, please don't leave. Did you think only believers could sometimes howl like fanatics? Non-believers struggle with passionate egos, too. Those who don't know or haven't experienced--at either end of the spectrum--are often the shrillest. At least this forum is moderated. A long time ago, after a blistering put down by other posters, I wrote,

"I recently posted in Amazon.com’s “religion” forum (which might more appropriately be called the “atheist” forum). Another lesson learned, that is, fanaticism doesn’t confine itself to those who “believe in God.” There are an equal number of fanatics who “don’t believe in God.” And just like believers, some are quite well-meaning while some are just plain mean. Such variety our Beloved has created here!"​

I will stay I realize after reading this post that I am wanted here, and yes I feel I have friends in here

Maybe my rant come more from within me then because of others?
I am not insecure about my belief or my cultivation. But I notice I get tired of always being alert to those who don't want religion or spiritual life to grow.

But anyway, maybe it is all in my head