How do you know you are right?

[loverofhumanity]

While we all have that inner voice, we must be aware that emotions alone will never tell us what is right or wrong.
Proper judgement of what is right and wrong must be based on logic and evidence after a stated goal is established.
Then, whatever achieves that goal best, with the least amount of suffering and cost, is the right one.



I don't have any scriptures. I've read the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tora, multiple Buddhist texts... And while many of them were beautiful, and some even inspiring, I've found none of them to be suitable as an un-questioned guide of what is 'right' or 'wrong'.



We must continually question our views and our conclusions, and be ready to abandon them the moment they prove themselves to be false and lacking.



'Truth' is a dodgy concept because people will always disagree wabout what it is. What we need are facts derived from objective scientific evidence, and conclusions based on the best evidence avaliable.



People are generally speaking stubborn and close-minded. There is evidence in connection to evolutionary psychology that indicates that it is more important for us to appear to be right than to actually -be- right. This is, of course, related to tribalistic mating 'rights'.
In order to stop being stubborn and close-minded, we must detach the ego from the equation (easier said than done) and rely only on what the evidence tells us.



I guess.



I agree with this sentiment, although, as I said above, truth is a dodgy concept.



There is no evidence to suggest that there have been any prophets, let alone a -last- prophet.
There is no evidence to suggest that anyone has actually risen from the dead, bodily or otherwise.
Whether Buddha (which one?) hinted at a God or not is irrelevant.
There is no evidence to suggest that Moses even existed.
There is no evidence to suggest that there is neither a God not a Satan.
I don't know who Baha'u'llah is, and I don't know what was promised.
There is actual evidence that strongly supports the notion that there was never, in fact, any kind of global flood.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for your comments I agree that for religion to progress it must accept scientific examinations what science rejects religion should question as to whether further.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hi...... haven't seen you on RF recently.


Yes.
But the UHJ is described by Bahauallah as a divinely ordained body and unerring...... or words to that effect. Tha's all I'm saying....

Yes that is correct.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Is there a difference between know you are wrong and knowing I am right ? I think so. I also think this feel is had more often than people think.

That's a good question. I think from education and tradition we learn right and wrong but every culture and religion has its own interpretation.

So what is right to me might be wrong to you. Is that what you meant?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't believe the human mind is capable of certitude in this context.

What about Beings like Krishna and Buddha

 

[SalixIncendium]

What about Beings like Krishna and Buddha

Both were arguably enlightened far beyond the rest of mankind. However, had they reached a level of certitude and passed on this knowledge, all of mankind would either be Hindu or Buddhist.

 

[whirlingmerc]

In this forum many views are exchanged. We all have our beliefs and understandings. But how do we know we are right? What is it that 'tells us within" that we can't be wrong and can that inner voice be trusted? Can it be wrong?

How do you know your belief, your understanding, your interpretation of your scriptures is right or truer than someone else's?

Is that inner voice within always right or should we question ourselves more?

If we all set out on a search for truth and we all found it, then wouldn't we be united? For truth is one isn't it and no one truth can contradict another truth? So if we all found truth we would be united wouldn't we? Then if we are divided some of us or many of us haven't found truth?

Can we be detached enough from our own views, our own beliefs, traditions and opinions to be open minded or are we stubborn and closed minded?

“No man shall attain the shores of the ocean of true understanding except he be detached from all that is in heaven and on earth” - Baha'u'llah

“The fact that we imagine ourselves to be right and everybody else wrong is the greatest of all obstacles in the path towards unity, and unity is necessary if we would reach truth, for truth is one.” - Abdul-Baha

Some of the issues people won't budge on may very well have a different explanation than the view commonly held. Was Muhammad really the Last Prophet? Did Jesus really bodily rise from the dead?
Did the Buddha hint at a God? Did Moses really part the Red Sea? Does Satan really exist? Is Baha'u'llah the Promised One? Was there really a Great Flood? (Noah)

You may like to add other topics.

People will often look at the facts, hold to those that support their view and set aside the rest... so it's hard. People also are fallen broken creatures and fallible and capable of large amounts of rationalization .... so.... you need God's help. I think you need God's help to know the truth about God and the gospel.

Lack of peace, lack of fruit of goodness or love, lack of consistency are flags something is wrong

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

When it comes to religion, it's subjective. You have to go with what is right for you, what suits your conscience and fits the facts as you see them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

People will often look at the facts, hold to those that support their view and set aside the rest... so it's hard. People also are fallen broken creatures and fallible and capable of large amounts of rationalization .... so.... you need God's help. I think you need God's help to know the truth about God and the gospel.

Lack of peace, lack of fruit of goodness or love, lack of consistency are flags something is wrong

I agree we need God's guidance in addition to logic and reason. They should go hand in hand. Thank you for bringing that up and God Bless you for remaining firm in your Faith.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Both were arguably enlightened far beyond the rest of mankind. However, had they reached a level of certitude and passed on this knowledge, all of mankind would either be Hindu or Buddhist.

Have you come across the Book of Certitude which gives the gift of Certitude? It was revealed by Bahaullah Who is Kalki Avatar, we believe. In it, if you read it sincerely, you can receive Certitude.

 

[Sonny]

Thank you. If we could just spend more time listening to others and question ourselves much more we might learn a lot more.

Are you really saying we should listen to others over our own thoughts, actions and research? The 'others' you speak of are no more or less ignorant of the facts than we are. What we 'should' do is look for the truth. Looking involves study, research and investigation into those issues that can deliver or determine truth. As one example- and imo, religion. Every religion is right in their own eyes. So finding truth by asking a member of any religion is, almost, asking for someone to lie to us. No, most don't lie intentionally. But if they believe only what some 'other' person tells them they could, and may, be wrong- or right. If one believes what he does based on mom and pop telling him it's true he may still be wrong- or right. But he won't know the truth until he does his own research. Mom and pop may have been lied to and failed to notice it. Or, they accepted, blindly, what they were taught never imagining it wasn't the truth.
The way to find truth- the only way- is to do our own personal research into whatever issue we want truth in.

Learning can be self emancipating if we stop saying 'I am right and others are wrong' and stop being so defensive.

But what if they are right? Some one or group must be right. So, they state they are. How do we know if they are right or wrong? Simple, follow their words and works and see if they fit with the known facts about the issue.

It's as if knowledge has become evil and adding anything more to what we believe makes us feel threatened even if it may be true.

Well, there are those (people and organizations) who would lie to anyone to get their way or fame, power or wealth (notoriety).

Humanity has been indoctrinated and now is the time for us to emancipate ourselves by not being afraid to question all we have been taught.

Spot on! I have never simply followed anyone. I find out for myself what I want to believe or learn about issues.
I remember when two Utah scientists said they figured out perpetual motion. When no other University, organization or scientists could duplicate their stated results they were discredited. Sadly, there is too many who are willing to lie, cheat and steal their way to fame, fortune and power. And, far too many of us are way too trusting, if not gullible, and never question what we have been told. That is what needs to stop. I like to follow the evidence to its inevitable conclusion. I believe real truth never lies but people do.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Are you really saying we should listen to others over our own thoughts, actions and research? The 'others' you speak of are no more or less ignorant of the facts than we are. What we 'should' do is look for the truth. Looking involves study, research and investigation into those issues that can deliver or determine truth. As one example- and imo, religion. Every religion is right in their own eyes. So finding truth by asking a member of any religion is, almost, asking for someone to lie to us. No, most don't lie intentionally. But if they believe only what some 'other' person tells them they could, and may, be wrong- or right. If one believes what he does based on mom and pop telling him it's true he may still be wrong- or right. But he won't know the truth until he does his own research. Mom and pop may have been lied to and failed to notice it. Or, they accepted, blindly, what they were taught never imagining it wasn't the truth.
The way to find truth- the only way- is to do our own personal research into whatever issue we want truth in.


But what if they are right? Some one or group must be right. So, they state they are. How do we know if they are right or wrong? Simple, follow their words and works and see if they fit with the known facts about the issue.


Well, there are those (people and organizations) who would lie to anyone to get their way or fame, power or wealth (notoriety).


Spot on! I have never simply followed anyone. I find out for myself what I want to believe or learn about issues.
I remember when two Utah scientists said they figured out perpetual motion. When no other University, organization or scientists could duplicate their stated results they were discredited. Sadly, there is too many who are willing to lie, cheat and steal their way to fame, fortune and power. And, far too many of us are way too trusting, if not gullible, and never question what we have been told. That is what needs to stop. I like to follow the evidence to its inevitable conclusion. I believe real truth never lies but people do.

Yes Sonny, you make some very valid points about not following others blindly. I agree it should always be about checking and investigating information given to us. By listening I didn't mean blindly believing but that we don't dismiss either a claim someone might make but investigate it. So rejecting or accepting anything should not be instant but only after full investigation is what I meant.

A huge problem we have now is indoctrination over the centuries due to many reasons. We did not all have the tools available to do independent research and as well too much trust was put in priests and clergy who may have been wrong and even some with ulterior motives.

Now however we can smash these misconceptions just by googling and asking questions about just how real are these ideas.

I personally believe that within a century priesthood will be abolished as it is no longer needed and people can get their information independently. People are even turning away from the media and getting information elsewhere so it is not so easy to manipulate people as it used to be.

Still, in countries like Iran, the priests will say to attack or kill minorities and those who are mindless fanatics do so without even questioning. I think these are the last remnants of the past which will soon die with this new age of independent investigation of truth.

When I read posts like yours I see so much hope for humanity's future that we will be driven by truth and not blind belief and that will lead to the elimination of prejudices as they are emotional attachments to untruths and we will eventually be able to accept all people as equal and create a peaceful world as long as we keep questioning.

Thank you for your very valuable contribution. It was very helpful.

 

[Sonny]

How do I know I am right?

By the evidence I find that informs me of the facts. I never know what the truth is, usually, when I began an investigation into something (that's why I study it). When the evidence is clear then everyone should see it. What others do with the evidence (facts, truth) is up to them. Some will deny it, others ignore it and some embrace it. One is only as right as the evidence he can produce on some matters. School teaches us other truths (1+1=2). But many facts of life must be sought after. Take, for example, religion (again). Not all religions can be true. It's impossible for all to be true. How then do we know which one is and which ones is not? Research. Never listen to others for truth when you can find out for yourself. However, therein lies a problem. Very few people want to do any research on anything so they accept what they are told from those they like or trust. How do we know they 'know' what they are telling us? We don't. I prefer personal research to the opinions, feelings or delusions/brainwashing's of others.

How do we know that we can trust anyone these days? We can't. That said, do your own 'unbiased' research/investigation.
Now, how do I know I am right? Easy. I followed the facts on my own. In religion I base belief on History, Geography, Cosmology, Geology and the other evidence such as fulfilled revelations/prophecies. Therefore, I know I am right bc, imo, all others failed where mine did not.
Truth never changes.

 

[Sonny]

You rest your chips on a lot of faith based premises. Why don't you tell us why you are so sure of them?

My 2 cents. Religion doesn't answer every question one may ask. When religion is speaking of God the answers are, imo, quite revealing. I like to examine the revelations and prophecies of religions. In them we can see, for certain, whether that particular religion is based on men or God. Men cannot see the future and almost always get it wrong. God never does. A Historian once said (paraphrased) that it is very hard to predict the future bc history turns on so many 'ifs'. And that is why so many modern-day prophets fail.

But, the real God never fails in revelation or prophecy. One example is from the book I believe in. It states that 'something' from space will hit earth so hard that it will knock the earth of its Axis. That was stated way before such things were common knowledge. And, since the earth has been moved from its Axis, to my knowledge, twice in the last 20 years, it is clear that such a thing is going to occur. That same book also predicts an Army of 200 million. It predicted that when, science tells us, the world only had about 50 millions on it. So, imo, that book is the one, true book from God bc its prophecies have come true or we can see they are about to. Because of all that I don't doubt or question that book (Bible)- unlike so many others that I have studied. If they fail at prophecy they are man-made and men-run, imo. Religious truth is the most important truth we can have. I believe it should be to all of us. Religious truth has eternal consequences where all other truths end when this life does.
But I think the OP is about more truths than just religious truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

By the evidence I find that informs me of the facts. I never know what the truth is, usually, when I began an investigation into something (that's why I study it). When the evidence is clear then everyone should see it. What others do with the evidence (facts, truth) is up to them. Some will deny it, others ignore it and some embrace it. One is only as right as the evidence he can produce on some matters. School teaches us other truths (1+1=2). But many facts of life must be sought after. Take, for example, religion (again). Not all religions can be true. It's impossible for all to be true. How then do we know which one is and which ones is not? Research. Never listen to others for truth when you can find out for yourself. However, therein lies a problem. Very few people want to do any research on anything so they accept what they are told from those they like or trust. How do we know they 'know' what they are telling us? We don't. I prefer personal research to the opinions, feelings or delusions/brainwashing's of others.

How do we know that we can trust anyone these days? We can't. That said, do your own 'unbiased' research/investigation.
Now, how do I know I am right? Easy. I followed the facts on my own. In religion I base belief on History, Geography, Cosmology, Geology and the other evidence such as fulfilled revelations/prophecies. Therefore, I know I am right bc, imo, all others failed where mine did not.
Truth never changes.

And if we have arrived at a conclusion and new facts are presented? I think we should look at them and re examine our own previous conclusion in the same light.

For instance you have said all religions cannot be true according to your personal research but my research has led me to the opposite conclusion. So we outright reject or accept or compare notes? I would say compare notes wouldn't you?

I have discovered that when one eliminates the man made dogmas from all the Faiths they are in agreement. For instance they all teach the Golden Rule. But things like idol worship or sacraments were not taught by the original Founders.

So spiritually all the religions are true as long as we only accept what the Founder taught and not the additions or dogmas of the followers or even their interpretations which are often wrong and divisive.

So I accept all the major religions as true easily without any inner conflict or contradiction because I am accepting them shorn of dogmas and man made interpretations and find that their original messages complement not contradict each other.

So maybe one day you can look at that and revisit your conclusion that all religions can not be true. Your assumption is correct only if you include the man made stuff but if you only refer to them in their original form then they seem to be in harmony.

Great post and your openness to investigation is refreshing.

 

[loverofhumanity]

My 2 cents. Religion doesn't answer every question one may ask. When religion is speaking of God the answers are, imo, quite revealing. I like to examine the revelations and prophecies of religions. In them we can see, for certain, whether that particular religion is based on men or God. Men cannot see the future and almost always get it wrong. God never does. A Historian once said (paraphrased) that it is very hard to predict the future bc history turns on so many 'ifs'. And that is why so many modern-day prophets fail.

But, the real God never fails in revelation or prophecy. One example is from the book I believe in. It states that 'something' from space will hit earth so hard that it will knock the earth of its Axis. That was stated way before such things were common knowledge. And, since the earth has been moved from its Axis, to my knowledge, twice in the last 20 years, it is clear that such a thing is going to occur. That same book also predicts an Army of 200 million. It predicted that when, science tells us, the world only had about 50 millions on it. So, imo, that book is the one, true book from God bc its prophecies have come true or we can see they are about to. Because of all that I don't doubt or question that book (Bible)- unlike so many others that I have studied. If they fail at prophecy they are man-made and men-run, imo. Religious truth is the most important truth we can have. I believe it should be to all of us. Religious truth has eternal consequences where all other truths end when this life does.
But I think the OP is about more truths than just religious truth.

I love prophecies and have many to share.

 

[Sonny]

You rest your chips on a lot of faith based premises. Why don't you tell us why you are so sure of them?

My 2 cents. Religion doesn't answer every question one may ask. When religion is speaking of God the answers are, imo, quite revealing. I like to examine the revelations and prophecies of religions. In them we can see, for certain, whether that particular religion is based on men or God. Men cannot see the future and almost always get it wrong. God never does. A Historian once said (paraphrased) that it is very hard to predict the future bc history turns on so many 'ifs'. And that is why so many modern-day prophets fail.

But, the real God never fails in revelation or prophecy. One example is from the book I believe in. It states that 'something' from space will hit earth so hard that it will knock the earth of its Axis. That was stated way before such things were common knowledge. And, since the earth has been moved from its Axis, to my knowledge, twice in the last 20 years, it is clear that such a thing is going to occur. That same book also predicts an Army of 200 million. It predicted that when, science tells us, the world only had about 50 millions on it. So, imo, that book is the one, true book from God bc its prophecies have come true or we can see they are about to. Because of all that I don't doubt or question that book (Bible)- unlike so many others that I have studied. If they fail at prophecy they are man-made and men-run, imo. Religious truth is the most important truth we can have. I believe it should be to all of us. Religious truth has eternal consequences where all other truths end when this life does.
But I think the OP is about more truths than just religious truth.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

My 2 cents. Religion doesn't answer every question one may ask. When religion is speaking of God the answers are, imo, quite revealing. I like to examine the revelations and prophecies of religions. In them we can see, for certain, whether that particular religion is based on men or God. Men cannot see the future and almost always get it wrong. God never does. A Historian once said (paraphrased) that it is very hard to predict the future bc history turns on so many 'ifs'. And that is why so many modern-day prophets fail.

But, the real God never fails in revelation or prophecy. One example is from the book I believe in. It states that 'something' from space will hit earth so hard that it will knock the earth of its Axis. That was stated way before such things were common knowledge. And, since the earth has been moved from its Axis, to my knowledge, twice in the last 20 years, it is clear that such a thing is going to occur. That same book also predicts an Army of 200 million. It predicted that when, science tells us, the world only had about 50 millions on it. So, imo, that book is the one, true book from God bc its prophecies have come true or we can see they are about to. Because of all that I don't doubt or question that book (Bible)- unlike so many others that I have studied. If they fail at prophecy they are man-made and men-run, imo. Religious truth is the most important truth we can have. I believe it should be to all of us. Religious truth has eternal consequences where all other truths end when this life does.
But I think the OP is about more truths than just religious truth.

So by your logic it's all man made, as there is no evidence for any of those claims you just made.(unless you have some for us to consider?)

 

[Sonny]

So by your logic it's all man made, as there is no evidence for any of those claims you just made.(unless you have some for us to consider?)

Actually, there are 3 separate groups who can muster a 200 million-man Army, China, India and NATO. The Meteor/Asteroid/Comet striking the earth has been in the know for decades now. But when this prophecy was given there wasn't as much knowledge of it happening. If that were to happen, or, when, it would do what the Bible predicts- cause massive flooding, equally massive weather changes, Poles shifting, earthquakes and other catastrophes mentioned in the Bible. I would not discount something simply bc it is a religious book.

Science, as most Christians are aware, always (Yes, always) ends up agreeing with what the Bible teaches. It just takes science longer to catch up and 'get it' than it does Christians to know it if it is in the Bible (Rocket Science isn't in the Bible but Aliens are- Jesus said He was one- 'not of this world'- Jn. 7:23). Some are... a round earth, veggies and water better for us than meat and wine, plants for medicine, Dinosaurs existed with man, ... that's all I can think of off hand. But there are more.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Actually, there are 3 separate groups who can muster a 200 million-man Army, China, India and NATO. The Meteor/Asteroid/Comet striking the earth has been in the know for decades now. But when this prophecy was given there wasn't as much knowledge of it happening. If that were to happen, or, when, it would do what the Bible predicts- cause massive flooding, equally massive weather changes, Poles shifting, earthquakes and other catastrophes mentioned in the Bible. I would not discount something simply bc it is a religious book.

Science, as most Christians are aware, always (Yes, always) ends up agreeing with what the Bible teaches. It just takes science longer to catch up and 'get it' than it does Christians to know it if it is in the Bible (Rocket Science isn't in the Bible but Aliens are- Jesus said He was one- 'not of this world'- Jn. 7:23). Some are... a round earth, veggies and water better for us than meat and wine, plants for medicine, Dinosaurs existed with man, ... that's all I can think of off hand. But there are more.

The only problem with that is a considerable amount of eisegesis is required to read the Bible as making even one of those predictions. Do you know what confirmation bias is?

 

[Nakosis]

In this forum many views are exchanged. We all have our beliefs and understandings. But how do we know we are right? What is it that 'tells us within" that we can't be wrong and can that inner voice be trusted? Can it be wrong?

Despite how certainty feels, it is neither a conscious choice nor even a thought process. Certainty and similar states of “knowing what we know” are sensations that feel like thoughts, but arise out of involuntary brain mechanisms that function independently of reason.

On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not - Robert A. Burton