• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How do you see it?

leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
q konn said:
That doesn't prevent them from switching to atheism, or non-theism. Likewise, there is going to be a percentage of people brought up without theism /or any religious beliefs/, there is nothing really stopping them from becoming more religious. We notice both things occurring, actually.
Click to expand...
OMG. Of course they both happen, but 1) there have always been far more theists in the world and most atheists were theists at some point; and 2) while there are examples of kids being brought up without religious beliefs, the vast majority of kids are brought up to hold beliefs in God or gods. Thus, it in no way a level playing field. The only numbers that matter are increases and decreases. Overall numbers don't indicate anything, as theism has been the norm since the beginning of human contemplation.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
q konn said:
Conversion to theism, no matter what the theism is, is conversion to theism. so, not sure what your trying to say.
Click to expand...

What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the chosen version of god is totally wrong.

Ciao

- viole
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
q konn said:
Conversion to theism, no matter what the theism is, is conversion to theism. so, not sure what your trying to say.
Click to expand...

Fast backward some millennia. Would you consider a reliable move towards the truth the conversion of an ancient atheist to Apollo? Would you count it as an increase of that guy knowledge?

Ciao

- viole
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
viole said:
What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the chosen version of god is totally wrong.
Ciao
- viole
Click to expand...
Please elaborate as to what you mean from "chosen version of god"?
Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
viole said:
What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the chosen version of god is totally wrong.
Ciao- viole
Click to expand...
paarsurrey said:
Please elaborate as to what you mean from "chosen version of god"?
Regards
Click to expand...
viole said:
You are right. "Chosen" might not be appropriate in this context. Maybe "culturally available" is better.
Ciao- viole
Click to expand...
You mean, if we change, "What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the chosen version of god is totally wrong." as:
"What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the "culturally available" version of god is totally wrong."
Please elaborate as to what you mean by that. I still don't get you.
Regards
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
You mean, if we change, "What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the chosen version of god is totally wrong." as:
"What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the "culturally available" version of god is totally wrong."
Please elaborate as to what you mean by that. I still don't get you.
Regards
Click to expand...
There are a plethora of different notions of what God is. If God exists independent of any human mind, the vast majority of these notions must be mistaken. These notions are, for the most part, formed early in our lives through our upbringing. Thus, "chances are that the culturally available (how we are brought up to believe God is) versions of God is totally wrong."
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
You mean, if we change, "What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the chosen version of god is totally wrong." as:
"What I am saying is that conversion to theism is a very unreliable indicator of having achieved some sort of deeper truth.
Chances are that the "culturally available" version of god is totally wrong."
Please elaborate as to what you mean by that. I still don't get you.
Regards
Click to expand...

i mean that people, usually, pick the God available in their culture, parents, friends, etc. it is not always the case, but the statistical distribution of beliefs is apparent. i can guess the religion of someone's parents , once I know his own religion, with very high reliabilty, and I am not psychic, I think.

So, what is more likely. That God takes different forms when revealing Himself to someone from Alabama or to someone from Teheran, or that people just pick what is available without any other justification?

Ciao

- viole
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Reference to Post #147 Post#148
Now my great grand parents belonged to religion of Krishna and converted to Islam denomination Sunni, and my grandfather and mother became an Ahmadiyya denomination and I am Ahmadi Muslim on my own conviction. I don't see any change of G-d all along from my great grandfather to my grandfather and me. It is the people who change G-d never changes in this aspect.
Regards
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Spiny Norman said:
You said people were converting to religions left and right. I'm not seeing it where I live, just increasingly secularity.
Click to expand...

I believe not all the areas have the same result. For instance I am in a church that is shrinking but across the street there is a church that is full to capacity for two services and adds people al the time. I attended that church when it had only 200 or so people and now it is somewhere around 3,000.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
paarsurrey said:
That is because Atheism holds no water of life in it?
Regards
Click to expand...

I believe you may have had too much spice. However the one person I know who claimed to be an atheist because evolution sounded good and made the Bible look unbelievable back pedalled to agnostic after I explained to her that evolution is still an unproven theory and why it may never be proven.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Spiny Norman said:
Where I live people most go to the supermarket instead of church on a Sunday morning. Or perhaps they are worshipping at the shrine of consumption. ;)
Click to expand...

I believe it is more likely in England that people go to the pub on saturday and worhip at the toilet on sunday morning.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
leibowde84 said:
There are a plethora of different notions of what God is. If God exists independent of any human mind, the vast majority of these notions must be mistaken. These notions are, for the most part, formed early in our lives through our upbringing. Thus, "chances are that the culturally available (how we are brought up to believe God is) versions of God is totally wrong."
Click to expand...
It does not harm the truthful concept of G-d that was revealed to Muhammad in Quran.
Regards
 
P

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
That you have to prove; unless you come up with something concrete, it is a simple truth that Quran is 100% correct, if one understands it correctly.
Regards
Click to expand...
He didn't say that it is wrong, he said that it might be wrong. Those are two very different claims. Saying that something cannot be wrong carries with it a much bigger burden of proof than saying something might possible be wrong. Anyone claiming that the Quran is infallible carries the burden of proof. Same for anyone could claims that any book is infallible.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Emergence said:
He didn't say that it is wrong, he said that it might be wrong. Those are two very different claims. Saying that something cannot be wrong carries with it a much bigger burden of proof than saying something might possible be wrong. Anyone claiming that the Quran is infallible carries the burden of proof. Same for anyone could claims that any book is infallible.
Click to expand...
Well I see no burden on me or my conscience by pronouncing the Truth; if you feel the burden, then you are welcome to go ahead. Please
Regards
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top