With all due respect, the harvest time is NOW, not because it is the end of the world, but because we have God's good news and there are people who need to hear it. See, the fields are white for harvest, so ask the Lord of the harvest to send more workers."The past millennia" is part of the period where Jesus told us about a defection or apostasy overtaking Christianity.
The beliefs that surfaced after Jesus and the apostles passed off the worldly scene cannot be relied upon to be faithful to God's word.
In Jesus' parable of "the wheat and the weeds", the devil was said to sow weeds (or tares) in the same "field" in which Jesus had sown the wheat. The plant indicated in the original text was bearded darnell, which farmers were familiar with in that part of the world. It looked like wheat in the early growing stages, hence the reason why the sower in the parable told his workers not to go and remove the weeds straight away, in case they uprooted some wheat by mistake. It was only at the "harvest time" that the difference would become obvious. The "harvest time", according to Jesus, is the end of the age....the time of his return. He sends his reapers (Angels) out to collect the weeds first. So who are the wheat and who are the weeds? Can we rely on weight of numbers to determine which is which? The answer to that is NO!
Matthew 7:13-14.....“Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!" (NET)
This road is a difficult one to traverse.....and "few" are actually finding the "gate" to enter it. It also requires endurance on the difficult journey "to the end" in order to be saved. This is not a "once saved always saved" scenario. (Matt 24:13)
There will be those "many" who believe that they are Christians in good standing who will be completely rejected by Jesus when he returns as judge.
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’" (NET)
Look at the claims of those who acknowledge Jesus as their "Lord"? Yet his response is scathing....he says "I never knew you". NEVER means "not ever", so these "Christians" have not been recognised by Jesus since their beginnings.
When he calls them "lawbreakers"......whose laws are they breaking? Christians should not be a criminal element breaking the laws of the land....they are breaking the laws of God. Yet by their response to Jesus, they are unaware of doing anything wrong. In their own eyes, they are fine.
The "goats" in Jesus other parable (sheep and goats) are also unaware of doing anything wrong. (Matt 25:31-46)
Christendom is the weeds of Jesus' parable. It's core teachings are not from the Bible, but adopted from pagan religious thought and introduced at a time when the apostasy was foretold. All hold to the beliefs introduced by Roman Carholicism. A trinity of gods....immortality of the human soul....hellfire of eternal torment.....the cross as a religious symbol. None of these teachings are from the Bible.
We praise Jehovah the God and Father of Jesus Christ. We appreciate all that Jesus did in his role as Messiah, but he never asked to be worshipped. He called his Father "the only true God" and only mentioned himself as "one sent forth" by him. (John 17:3)
Jesus did not once claim to be God and he did not ever claim to share equality with his Father. He directed all worship to his God and said that he "alone" was to receive worship. (Luke 4:8)
God dwells in heaven, as his son Jesus did before he came to earth as a human. He was not God before, nor was he God after his return. In Revelation 3:12, Jesus said...."The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never depart from it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name as well."
Jesus calls his Father "my God" four times in that one verse and this was after his return to heaven. Can God have a God?
Jesus was appointed as king of God's kingdom (his enthronement was seen in vision by the prophet Daniel. Dan 7:13, 14) and he prayed that with the coming of that kingdom, that God's will was going to be done "on earth as it is in heaven".
The rule of God's kingdom is going to ensure that humans have the rulership that Adam lost for his children.
Jesus came to get us back the life that our forefather, Adam lost.....not life in heaven, but the wonderful life we should have had in paradise conditions on earth. God already has many sons in heaven...he designed humans for the earth.
Some with a special "calling" will assist Christ in heaven as "joint heirs" who will be assigned as "kings and priests" to rule redeemed mankind. (Heb 3:1; Rev 20:6) These alone are "born again". But the majority of humankind will live here on earth forever as their subjects.
At Revelation 21:2-4 the apostle John wrote....."And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.” (NET)
With the 'coming' of God's kingdom (New Jerusalem) "human beings" are going to benefit by having a cleansed earth and a new righteous incorruptible rulership over them for the first time. "The former things"...the world we see crumbling at present, is going to "cease to exist". God will "live" among his worshippers in the same way as he did with Israel. He had human representatives through whom he directed his people. And his presence was indicated by the operation of his spirit in guiding and directing them in all that they did. His worship was facilitated by his priests under the authority of his High Priest, whom the Bible identifies as Jesus Christ.
Why would we expect that God's true worshippers would stand out as different at this point in time?
First of all, they are "few" in number compared with Christendom's fragmented crowds.
They have responded to God's command to "get out of Babylon the great" (Rev 18:4,5) and separated themselves from the pagan teachings and traditions of Christendom and indeed all false religion.
Secondly, they were to be "hated and persecuted" for doing what Jesus did (John 15:18-21)....exposing false teachings and preaching the good news of the established kingdom. Before the end of the present world system comes, a global preaching was to take place. (Matt 24:14) Christendom cannot even agree on what the kingdom is, let alone preach about it.
Thirdly, the prophesy in Daniel applied to "the time of the end" when a 'cleansing and refining' of God's people was to take place. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) An 'abundance of knowledge' was to be made available at this time and the situation that Daniel describes is about to take place. (Dan 2:44) The coming of God's kingdom will "crush" all human rulership out of existence and replace it as the earth' s only rulership. It will cleanse the earth of wickedness, false worship and every last vestige of the devil's rulership over this earth. (1John 5:19)
God's footstool is about to become a fitting place for God's feet.
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How Do You Understand The Gospel?
- Thread starter BilliardsBall
- Start date
With all due respect, the harvest time is NOW, not because it is the end of the world, but because we have God's good news and there are people who need to hear it. See, the fields are white for harvest, so ask the Lord of the harvest to send more workers.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
No, it is not yet because the reapers have not gathered the weeds in order to dispose of them. This takes place first. Then the sons of the kingdom receive their reward.
The fields have always needed harvest workers, but due to Christendom's stranglehold on the sheep, they needed to get out of captivity to "Babylon the great" first. God would not command his people to get out of Babylon the great unless he first identified who she is and what they were getting out of. He would then have somewhere for them to go, since his people have always been a collective....one nation....."a people for his name" (Acts 15:14)
Christ's disciples were to be identified by two things that made them unique.....they were to be "no part of this world"....meaning that they did not participate in its corrupt politics or bloody conflicts.
They were commanded by Jesus to love their enemies and to do good to them, so there would be no way that a true Christian could be a part of the evils committed by any governments, no matter the persuasion.
Jesus set the example of being a law abiding citizen but he did not interfere in the politics of his day, despite the fact that Rome was oppressing his people. They were told to obey their ruling authorities, but when they were ordered to stop preaching, they refused to do so. The commands of God were more important than the commands of men.
The other thing that identified true Christians was peace and unity within their own brotherhood. JW's are no part of Christendom, so therefore they are in full agreement with each other, no matter what nation they live in. Christians were all to have one set of beliefs, taught by the Christ. I don't see that in any of the churches of Christendom.
Since we are to preach "the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations", can you tell me what the kingdom is......and what the good news about it is?
What is the message that you take to people? (Matt 24:14)
What did Jesus mean when he prayed for God's kingdom to "come" and for his will "to be done on earth as it is in heaven"?
Jesus said he would be with his disciples "all the days until the end of the age". (Matt 28:19, 20) We are nearing the end of the age right now. He sent his disciples out to preach and to make more disciples, teaching them to observe ALL the things he commanded. The church I used to belong to paid lip service to this but still doesn't preach....and still meddles in politics. They are in bed with the kings of the earth, and support the war efforts of their nations. Most in Christendom find excuses not to do as Jesus said. Christians cannot be patriots, since their stand must be one of strict political neutrality. "No part of this world" means NO part of it, as Jesus and the apostles demonstrated.
Jesus' disciples are also to preach a global message, which means that they must be a global brotherhood, not a local one. I do not see any of the churches preaching where I live...but everyone knows who Jehovah's Witnesses are and what we do. We are found preaching in all nations and languages as well as online.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
The actual baptism, happens, when one adheres to Jesu. The 'two different types of baptisms', are combined for this affect, that we find in the Bible, because people were literally going from a previous religion, to 'Xianity', or rather Jesus followers. Johns baptism is really a ''change of religion'', ceremony. There is a broader context, in that it is symbolic for this, as well, /because many people are already Christians before being baptized. This broader meaning is somewhat different from what we find in the Bible.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
1. Water baptism is a step of obedience
2. Water baptism is a witness to others and a symbol, not salvific
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Yes, only God receives worship. However, Jesus never said "only the Father" receives worship. Thomas knelt before Jesus and declared Him Lord and God.
In the same book's 1st chapter, Jesus declares Himself I AM and Alpha and Omega, who was, is and is to come, eternal. Since Jesus in Hebrews is also neither man nor angel, we will have some trouble proving He is NOT God.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
still looking for one verse that uses the word heaven and says someone went there or someone is going there.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Revelation 19:
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses."
The people are coming down from the wedding supper of the Lamb in Heaven, so they must have been there.
Do you believe that you are saved by trusting in Jesus, as I had outlined?
I think it is right next to the verse that uses the word Trinity.
God lives in Heaven.
We will live with God.
[shrug]
Good luck on your search.
Let me know what you find.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
the armies in Heaven are angels,not people. it does not say people die and go to Heaven to become soldiers
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Actually when Jesus replied to the devil under temptation, each time he said "it is written", referring back to the Hebrew Scriptures.
"And Jesus answered him, “It is written: Worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.” (Luke 4:8)
Jesus was quoting Deuteronomy 10:20...."You are to fear Yahweh your God and worship Him. Remain faithful to Him and take oaths in His name." (Holman)
When you see the ambiguous title "Lord" in Luke, it helps to understand that the Tetragrammaton was used in the original quote from Deuteronomy. Jesus was clearly stating that Yahweh (Jehovah) "only" was to be worshiped. He never once said he was God Almighty.
Thomas' expression is not an admission that he thought that Jesus was Almighty God either. You forget that Thomas was expressing doubt and surprise. Hardly something to build a doctrine upon. How many people today say "oh my God!" as an expression, when they don't even believe in him?
Who did the apostle Peter think Jesus was?
"Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...." (1 Pet 1:3) Was Peter praising Jesus or the God and Father of Jesus?
What about Paul?....
"For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth—as there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father. All things are from Him, and we exist for Him. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things are through Him, and we exist through Him." (1 Cor 8:5, 6)
Do the apostles contradict one another? Was Thomas mentioned much in scripture except on this one occasion, when he doubted? Could his words override those of Peter and Paul?
And then there is the testimony from Jesus himself....clearly identifying his Father as his God even after his return to heaven. (Rev 3:12)
When you take off the trinitarian glasses, you see that it doesn't find any support in the Bible at all. This blasphemous doctrine dishonours the son and insults the Father, breaking the first Commandment.
That is a misconception. Almighty God declared himself to be Yahweh...a name he said was to be his memorial name forever. (Ex 3:15)
The Tetragrammaton does not mean "I Am"...it never did.
(Je·hoʹvah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wahʹ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”].
Really?
Alpha and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong?
(1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy.
(2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition.
(3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)
(4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it.
(5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1)
So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
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FaithWithinMe
I Have Faith!
I call myself a Christian because I believe in God and I've accepted Jesus Christ as my savior.
Does the same beliefs get me into heaven? I am still learning about my religion, and this is a very good question for me to ponder about (*adding it to my list of things to think about*). I have a very private relationship with my God and I've come to my own understanding that because I am forgiven and because I am saved and because I believe, I have reserved myself a one way ticket straight to Heaven.
**I'm not sure if I answered the OP's question correctly, but that's how I interpreted it**
Does the same beliefs get me into heaven? I am still learning about my religion, and this is a very good question for me to ponder about (*adding it to my list of things to think about*). I have a very private relationship with my God and I've come to my own understanding that because I am forgiven and because I am saved and because I believe, I have reserved myself a one way ticket straight to Heaven.
**I'm not sure if I answered the OP's question correctly, but that's how I interpreted it**
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Arguable, but believers will be at the wedding supper of the lamb in Heaven.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I would respectfully disagree. However, perhaps you would explain your views on salvation, which is more pertinent to this thread that I began?
Thank you.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I think you answered my question.
I know if you've placed your trust in Jesus, not yourself, to be saved, in what Jesus did, not what you did and do, you are saved.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Is that all on this subject? Do I take it, then, that my gospel presentation (first post as OP) is correct?
Thank you.
Thank you.
I have a understanding of the Good News in where may challenge the mind of many but here we go
In the beginning God created the Earth and Gave us Dominion true Adam and Eve ,Adam was told not to touch the fruit and he did we most understand what took place in this very moment we lost his presence the spirit of the lord cant no longer be present or duel with Man kind at that very moment when after the serpent tempted the women in Genesis CH3 verse 14-15 God said to the serpent I will put enmity between thee and the women and between thy seed and her seed it shall bruise thy head ,and thou shalt bruise his heel. This mean that God promise to crush the evil head this mean to take away his authority that we lost when Adam disobey his command and that he will use the same women (meaning Mary the Virgin ) and God will use her to bring back his Glory true Jesus Christ his son . you see God will never violate his Word he promise to give us dominion over the earth this is why he came as IMMANUEL . Matthew says that the birth of Jesus by the virgin Mary is to “fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 'Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel' (which means, God with us)”. This means that when Jesus Christ was born and Died with out sin he over came the world and took the keys back from the Evil one witch Adam lost true his disobedient .Now you understand that true Jesus you have been forgiven of all your sins this is why the Holly spirit can live in you this is the presence of God back in your Hart this was Jesus main purpose to bring the Kingdom of God back to Earth. He tell us
◄ Matthew 6:33 ►
But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you.
ones you understand this you will get the answer to all your questions
Are you going to Heaven? - Yes If you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord (means Owner) and repent of your sins repent means to change your ways to turn away to change your ways of thinking to be born in spirit .
Why? Because the sacrificed of the lamb was already done for you . now is up to you to change and to seek the Kingdom and righteousness.
Are you perfect? No one is perfect but him Jesus Christ . but this is why we most be Holly because he is Holly it means to be one so true him we can be perfect.
An a summary the Good news is that hes Glory is brought back to earth you don't need to wait till you go to haven to experience the Kingdom of God every act that he did was to show that his Glory is here at hand but you most believe to received to received his Glory But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousnes
◄ Matthew 6:33 ►
I hope this can help
Thanks Gilbert .
In the beginning God created the Earth and Gave us Dominion true Adam and Eve ,Adam was told not to touch the fruit and he did we most understand what took place in this very moment we lost his presence the spirit of the lord cant no longer be present or duel with Man kind at that very moment when after the serpent tempted the women in Genesis CH3 verse 14-15 God said to the serpent I will put enmity between thee and the women and between thy seed and her seed it shall bruise thy head ,and thou shalt bruise his heel. This mean that God promise to crush the evil head this mean to take away his authority that we lost when Adam disobey his command and that he will use the same women (meaning Mary the Virgin ) and God will use her to bring back his Glory true Jesus Christ his son . you see God will never violate his Word he promise to give us dominion over the earth this is why he came as IMMANUEL . Matthew says that the birth of Jesus by the virgin Mary is to “fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 'Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel' (which means, God with us)”. This means that when Jesus Christ was born and Died with out sin he over came the world and took the keys back from the Evil one witch Adam lost true his disobedient .Now you understand that true Jesus you have been forgiven of all your sins this is why the Holly spirit can live in you this is the presence of God back in your Hart this was Jesus main purpose to bring the Kingdom of God back to Earth. He tell us
◄ Matthew 6:33 ►
But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you.
ones you understand this you will get the answer to all your questions
Are you going to Heaven? - Yes If you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord (means Owner) and repent of your sins repent means to change your ways to turn away to change your ways of thinking to be born in spirit .
Why? Because the sacrificed of the lamb was already done for you . now is up to you to change and to seek the Kingdom and righteousness.
Are you perfect? No one is perfect but him Jesus Christ . but this is why we most be Holly because he is Holly it means to be one so true him we can be perfect.
An a summary the Good news is that hes Glory is brought back to earth you don't need to wait till you go to haven to experience the Kingdom of God every act that he did was to show that his Glory is here at hand but you most believe to received to received his Glory But seek you first the kingdom of God, and his righteousnes
◄ Matthew 6:33 ►
I hope this can help
Thanks Gilbert .
I found this article that will be of great help to you .
Question: "What does the Bible say about infant baptism / paedobaptism?"
Answer:There is much confusion about baptism in the various Christian denominations. However, this is not a result of the Bible presenting a confusing message on baptism. The Bible is abundantly clear of what baptism is, who it is for, and what it accomplishes. In the Bible, only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptized - as a public testimony of their faith and identification with Him (Acts 2:38;Romans 6:3-4). Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience after faith in Christ. It is a proclamation of faith in Christ, a statement of submission to Him, and an identification with His death, burial, and resurrection.
With this in view, infant baptism is not a Biblical practice. An infant cannot place his or her faith in Christ. An infant cannot make a conscious decision to obey Christ. An infant cannot understand what water baptism symbolizes. The Bible does not record any infants being baptized. Infant baptism is the origin of the sprinkling and pouring methods of baptism - as it is unwise and unsafe to immerse an infant under water. Even the method of infant baptism fails to agree with the Bible. How does pouring or sprinkling illustrate the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Many Christians who practice infant baptism do so because they understand infant baptism as the new covenant equivalent of circumcision. In this view, just as circumcision joined a Hebrew to the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants, so baptism joined a person to the New Covenant of salvation through Jesus Christ. This view is unbiblical. The New Testament nowhere describes baptism as the New Covenant replacement for Old Covenant circumcision. The New Testament nowhere describes baptism as a sign of the New Covenant. It is faith in Jesus Christ that enables a person to enjoy the blessings of the New Covenant (1 Corinthians 11:25;2 Corinthians 3:6;Hebrews 9:15).
Baptism does not save a person. It does not matter if you were baptized by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling - if you have not first trusted in Christ for salvation, baptism (no matter the method) is meaningless and useless. Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience to be done after salvation as a public profession of faith in Christ and identification with Him. Infant baptism does not fit the Biblical definition of baptism or the Biblical method of baptism. If Christian parents wish to dedicate their child to Christ, then a baby dedication service is entirely appropriate. However, even if infants are dedicated to the Lord, when they grow up they will still have to make a personal decision to believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
the word gospel means "good news" and the gospel of Jesus is the good news that He is coming back to earth to set up and rule the Kingdom of God here on earth
The good news is that the Kingdom of God is here . Every time jesus heel the sick the blind or any one spell demons it was a manifestation of the glory of God and his kingdom to show us that if you understand and belive the kingdom of God has come to that person. In Matthew6:31_33 he said Do not worry .what you should eat drink or wear for the pegans go after this things and your heavenly father knows that you need them but seek first his Kingdom and his righteous Ness and all this things will be given to you as well. Luke 12:32 do not be afraid little flock for your father has been please to give you the kingdom. Luke 16 :16 the law and the prophets were proclaimed until John .since that time the good news of the kingdom of God us been preached and every one is forcing his way into it
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
what about the "Lord's Prayer" where it says thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Jesus is looking for God's kingdom to come ON EARTH. that is why the Romans wanyed to kill Jesus because they thought He was going to set up a kingdom and overthrow the Roman government. God's kingdom will be on earth when Jesus returns to serve as King