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How do you view George W. Bush?

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
I just wanted to cut to the chase on the whole issue of how we see Bush - not in the context of how he is doing his job, but how we view him as an individual - characteristically. While I would like input from all of our members, I'm also interested in seeing how our age is related to our views of him. So, I'd like to see each of us post our age (in years) as the very first item in our replies on this thread. I'll start:

I'm 47, and I have to say that Bush strikes me as possibly the least intelligent man to ever hold the office of President (at least in my lifetime). I compare him to someone like Jimmy Carter (graduated from Annapolis and commanded a nuclear submarine), and I just shake my head. I just see him as alarmingly dense.

Thanks,
TVOR

PS - notice that I did not make any observations about the job he has (or hasn't) done while in office.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
George Bush says things (that make me laugh) that I would expect from most world leaders. Free market, globalisation, protecting citizens blah blah.

I guess I just see him as a guy with a funny accent really. And loadsa cash.

Oh aye, I'm 21.
 

HelpMe

·´sociopathic meanderer`·
Code:
				 AVG IQ	 AVG Income	 '04 Electoral 
(1) Connecticut..................113	 $26,979		 Kerry 
(2) Massachusetts................111	 $24,059		 Kerry 
(3) New Jersey...................111	 $26,457		 Kerry 
(4) New York.....................109	 $23,534		 Kerry 
(5) Rhode Island.................107	 $20,299		 Kerry 
(6) Hawaii.......................106	 $21,218		 Kerry 
(7) Maryland.....................105	 $22,974		 Kerry 
(8) New Hampshire................105	 $22,934		 Kerry 
(9) Illinois.....................104	 $21,608		 Kerry 
(10) Delaware....................103	 $21,451		 Kerry 
(11) Minnesota...................102	 $20,049		 Kerry 
(12) Vermont.....................102	 $18,834		 Kerry 
(13) Washington..................102	 $20,398		 Kerry 
(14) California..................101	 $21,278		 Kerry 
(15) Pennsylvania................101	 $20,253		 Kerry 
(16) Maine.......................100	 $18,226		 Kerry 
(17) Wisconsin...................100	 $18,727		 Kerry 
(18) Virginia....................100	 $20,629		 Bush 
(19) Iowa.........................99	 $18,287		 Kerry 
(20) Oregon.......................99	 $18,202		 Kerry 
(21) Colorado.....................99	 $20,124		 Bush 
(22) Michigan.....................99	 $19,508		 Bush 
(23) Nevada.......................99	 $20,266		 Bush 
(24) Ohio.........................99	 $18,624		 Bush 
(25) Alaska.......................98	 $21,603		 Bush 
(26) Florida......................98	 $19,397		 Bush 
(27) Missouri.....................98	 $18,835		 Bush 
(28) Kansas.......................96	 $19,376		 Bush 
(29) Nebraska.....................95	 $19,084		 Bush 
(30) Arizona......................94	 $17,119		 Bush 
(31) Indiana......................94	 $18,043		 Bush 
(32) Tennessee....................94	 $17,341		 Bush 
(33) North Carolina...............93	 $17,667		 Bush 
(34) West Virginia................93	 $15,065		 Bush 
(35) Arkansas.....................92	 $15,439		 Bush 
(36) Georgia......................92	 $18,130		 Bush 
(37) Kentucky.....................92	 $16,534		 Bush 
(38) New Mexico...................92	 $15,353		 Bush 
(39) North Dakota.................92	 $16,854		 Bush 
(40) Texas........................92	 $17,892		 Bush 
(41) Alabama......................90	 $16,220		 Bush 
(42) Louisiana....................90	 $15,712		 Bush 
(43) Montana......................90	 $16,062		 Bush 
(44) Oklahoma.....................90	 $16,198		 Bush 
(45) South Dakota.................90	 $16,558		 Bush 
(46) South Carolina...............89	 $15,989		 Bush 
(47) Wyoming......................89	 $17,423		 Bush 
(48) Idaho........................87	 $16,067		 Bush 
(49) Utah.........................87	 $15,325		 Bush 
(50) Mississippi..................85	 $14,088		 Bush 
 
Bush..... IQ: 91 
Kerry.... IQ: 128 
 
* Retarded is considered 75-85.

www.dubyaspeak.com
 

No*s

Captain Obvious
I'm 26 years old, and I apologize for my verbosity.

Now, before I start, George W. is a man. He's a man, with values, dreams, and fears just like everybody else on this board. If we paint him as wholly evil (or his opposition), his policies, or anything like that, then we can rest assured, we do not have the faintest clue who he is, and we say more about ourselves than we do others when we look at things that way. Further, he's a man with a tough job in a tough time. I think we need to consider these things when we look at what he has done, and evaluating it.

First, he actually strikes me as a basically honest man. He's direct, and really doesn't do much in the way of beating around the Bush. In many ways, he's much like what I was raised in Texas to see as an ideal in that sense. Just because I think he's honest, doesn't mean I trust his decisions. It just means that I don't see him willfully and deliberately trying to destroy America. I'll get back to this fundamental honesty a bit later.

I also don't think that he is an idiot. He really isn't. He speaks in a backward accent, but that same accent is my own, and mine is far deeper (and I'm proud enough of it I got into a bit of trouble with my frat in college, because I told the pledgemasters basically to kiss off when they told me to change it). The accent says very little about the man's intelligence. In fact, it may say positive things. One of the places where I see him shining with his intelligence is actually how he deals with other politicians. He presents himself in such a way that two basic things happen: 1). His opponents underestimate him, and so he outperforms their expectations invariably. These predictions invariably help his political success. 2). It causes him to relate to the common man better. Over one half of America voted for him, and this is at least in part, because despite the fact that he is fabulously wealthy, he still seems like a guy who can openly embrace people. I think this second, and the first to a degree, is natural to him.

For instance, when he embraced the girl in the crowd, he struck me as doing it honestly, just as John Kerry's criticism of the Vietnam War strikes me as honest. Now, I think both sides of this are truly a part of him, but he's politically savvy, and he knows how to exploit weaknesses, and so he knows how to exploit both of these. The latter is more natural, and must be exploited at times when it is not expressed, while he exploits the former in trying to actively make his opponents misjudge him. I've actually done that myself at times. I am a redneck, with a deep accent, scraggily beard, normally holey jeans, barefoot, and chewing on a stick, so people see me and think "idiot," often even after I best them in a strategy game, debate, or whatever, and I will exploit this in my opponents at every opportunity (I can't online, obviously). This same dynamic runs into play with Bush, and I don't see why he wouldn't.

Heck, the man graduated from Harvard. That has to say something.

He strikes me as tactless in many cases, and he surrounds himself with tactless men. They often give factually accurate statements, but their manner of doing so tends to be more divisive than not. For instance, there was an investigation into Abu Grhaib before CBS ever broke the story, and they knew about it before CBS. The way they broke the news, though, set off wild debate.

As I've hinted above, he strikes me as a fundamentally decent man, even if I believe that he's made some very bad mistakes (and I don't believe he is responsible for Abu Grhaib). Not only the above embrace, but the way he tends to respond to things makes me think of him as decent. For instance, he wasn't being blatantly pressured by anyone to make a donation to African victems of AIDS in his 2002 State of the Union Address (I might have the year wrong there), but he did. Further, he didn't do it with much fanfare. Of course, it was altogether infinitesimal compared the to the problem, but it demonstrates some of what goes on in his head. Further, his rhetoric demonstrates a moralist view of the world. He says "good," "evil," "axis of evil," "right," and other such terms as readily as terms like "economy," if not more so.

Now, I also believe that he is religious, and that being so, he cannot cease being so. In fact, that's his exact sentiment. Like any religious/political belief, it will influence his decisions. As such, we can expect him to pass laws that reflect that attitude. It's unfair to expect otherwise, because everyone will do that. When their faith doesn't inform their decisions to a degree, then you learn something about that person's faith.

He is also an authoritarian. He believes in a strong authority, and that that authority should rarely be questioned. As a result, he says things like "It's OK to question the president...just not in front of the cameras." Now, if we get a man with a sense of morality, and this man feels that authority is fundamentally moral, and that it should be obeyed when helmed by a moral man (which I think he considers himself), this man will express authoritarian traits. I think all this is present in Bush.

Now, when you take all this (and more), add them together, stir, and you get a man, who if you wrote him into a novel with our current situation will behave in a startelingly similar manner. Suppose you honestly believe that Iraq has WMDs, that they could strike at any minute, and that by possibly instituting a secular democracy in the Middle East, you could create a dominoe effect that could stabalize the region, how would you respond, seriously? Add to this that Bush's political view is that Democracy will never be safe until the world is a democracy, and you get all the basic requirements for the War in Iraq. It doesn't matter if we think some of the premises are faulty. This is quite apparently what he believes.

Take the 9/11, insert terrorrist cells in America (and they do exist), add a dash of authoritarianism, a dash of feeling threatened, a pinch of a moral obligation to protect the citizens, and bake. You will have the Patriot Acts, the desire to hold a man you "know" to be a terrorist indefinately, and several other reactions that we have seen. They are a natural result of who he is.

Most all his actions can be explained this way, and they can be done without making him the Antichrist or some blameless genius. What you see is a man in a hard position, with difficult choices, some questionable values (the authoritarianism is chief for me), and other such things. He's not a "simple" man per se, but like most men, he's actually quite complex. It only becomes simple when we've clouded our eyes with hate, and we'll forget that he's a man and the circumstances and values that led to his actions. Quite likely, many critics would respond the same way or worse if they were in the same position.

In short, I would have him over for dinner and trust him personally, but I don't like his decisions in office. I hope this is what you wanted TVOR :D.
 

retrorich

SUPER NOT-A-MOD
I am 63.

I view George W. Bush as a cold, uncaring, selfish, egotistical, power hungry, conscienceless liar who is well below average in intelligence, judgement and integrity.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I agree with retrorich. I can't understand how Bush conceals the cloven hooves and tail.....
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
You guys ready for a shocker? ;)

From what I've seen of George Bush when he isn't playing politics, he strikes me as a likeable man.

A man that should never be involved in politics, but a likeable man.
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
age:50


I agree in most parts with no*s...I don't think he is a bad man, I think he would be someone I could respect as a friend. I also agree that he in the initial stages of the Iraq stages sincerely believed as did I that Saddam HAD WMD. He's made mistakes...I'll not judge the man...that's not my job. I'll support the things in his term that I agree with and take a position on the things I don't and that's how it will stand for me.:)
 

retrorich

SUPER NOT-A-MOD
Jensa said:
You guys ready for a shocker? ;)

From what I've seen of George Bush when he isn't playing politics, he strikes me as a likeable man.

A man that should never be involved in politics, but a likeable man.
Damn...that is a shocker, Jensa! :eek:
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
retrorich said:
Damn...that is a shocker, Jensa! :eek:
Heh heh. I blame it on my southern upbringing. He reminds me of a lot of the nice boys around here (who I also think need to stay AWAY from politics).

He just has the "I'm a sweet little southern boy [until you turn your back]" thing going on.
 
To me Bush is a figurehead, by himself he does not scare me and I agree with No*s post about his character. What scares me is the people who he surrounds himself with: Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, and all those that people have labled neocons. That bunch is power hungry, corrupt and seem hell-bent on forcing American hegenomy around the world.

I'm 21 by the way
 

No*s

Captain Obvious
The Voice of Reason said:
Well, I have to agree with you on the first point in your post, No*s - it was verbose. :)

TVOR

Verbose? Me? Oh for shame! Never mind that I admit it...
 

Lintu

Active Member
I'm 22 in a week, and I think he is closed-minded, inarticulate, bigoted, and while educated in theory, does not seem to know a whole lot. I remember reading about an incident where he confused Sweden and Switzerland. Regardless of any other factors, lack of geographic understanding is a pretty good reason for him not to be president.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Lintu said:
I'm 22 in a week, and I think he is closed-minded, inarticulate, bigoted, and while educated in theory, does not seem to know a whole lot. I remember reading about an incident where he confused Sweden and Switzerland. Regardless of any other factors, lack of geographic understanding is a pretty good reason for him not to be president.
Good point!!! I would hate to think that when Bush sends troops to quell the terrorism in Swiss banks, they go to Sweden. What would our Anders say?

Bob
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I love the man.

He is the wisest president currently in the White House.

He would not willingly kick his dog in front of the press.

I thought I would try to be more positive about him.
 

Runt

Well-Known Member
I don't think he's as bad a guy as his opponents claim, or as good a guy as his proponents claim...


Give me ambiguity, or give me something else. :D


Seriously though, although I do not agree with some of his actions, I do not think he is a great evil. A little one, perhaps :rolleyes: , but just think… he CAN'T do more than two terms!!!:woohoo:
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Goodjewishboy brought up a good point. The executive branch is not one man but one team. Bush may be calling the shots but his team is the ones lining them up and those are they guys to watch. When I look at voting for a president I am not looking for IQ but for character because of that. I had a friend once who told me that she voted for Clinton because he played the saxaphone. I asked "why would that matter at all" she said anyone who plays an insturement is introspective in nature and how many cold hearted ruthless muscians do you know? I wouldn't have made a decision on that but it brought up a good point. Ones hobbies are an indication of character.

That brings us to Bush's character. He is the member of an elite political family who has been groomed to have this job for years. I have observed his training in his ablity to handle negitive publicity, his skill at marketing inititives in interviews, and his ablity to use framing in his language which I think got him the presidency both times.
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml
His morality is associated with religion but I see a stronger link to his hertiage than to his beliefs. I see his relationship to religion as a marketing tool for political gain through the use of framing (which by the way takes some congnative skills to wield). I would say he is an anti utilitarianist and as such lacking in communitive morality.

I would imagine his IQ or intelligence if measurable (which is a debate in itself as far as testing goes) is probably average. What hurts him is his 12 grade vocabulary skills. If he would read voc lists and learn say 5 words a month he probalby would gain instant IQ in the eyes of his readers because many people mistake poor vocabulary for low inteligence (and vice versa).
 
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