How does one choose?

[waitasec]

Of course He could. Just remember that 50% of the people in this country deserve to die because of the murder of unborn children.

i suppose god should be murdered for aborting wanted children too.

 

[Astravalon]

I don't think you would find one for repentance, since it is an act of a person's will.

Perhaps; my previous reference to repentance was made with the following verses in mind:

Acts5:31 God has exalted to his right hand this very man as our Leader and Savior in order to extend repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.
​

Acts11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
​

2 Timothy 2:24-26 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
​

That is incorrect. God created the world and called it good. Somewhere along the line it became a broken world and not near what God intended it to be.

Still, He built that potential for breakage into the world, or knew in advance that it would occur. I don't for a second believe that this world is a mad (or merely inept) scientist's experiment that went horribly -- and unforeseeably -- wrong.

There is a difference between God's perfect will and His permissive will. God permits evil to exist on earth for a time but it is not His will that people should practice evil or be bamboozled by the devil into an evil act.

I agree that some see a distinction between God's active and permissive wills. Again, though, there are verses that show He will do all His will, and in various cases (mentioned in the bible) He actively sent an evil spirit into folks to bring about certain things.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

An unbeliever has voluntarily chosen not to have a good life. He just doesn't realize that he made that choice.

I release my will from controlling my mind and body and allow the spirit of God to control my mind and body.

Your religion does not seem to have helped you become a good person, at all. From your posts there seems to be something very wrong with you.

 

[Muffled]

Wait, sorry to just pop in here, but trying to follow this. A guy shoots people in a theater, a guy you seem to think your god has nothing to do with, he could have have done something about the shooting, but didn't, because 50% of the people in this country deserve to die because of unborn children being murdered? A train of thought just completely derailed there. What?

If it were me preparing to go to that theatre that day at that time, God would simply have said "Don't go to the theatre today" and I would have obeyed and been saved. Who you know makes a difference.

 

[Muffled]

a believer has volunteered to choose...it's a work, an action that only the believer can do because...the believer believes.


the believer is the captain of their destiny...isn't that nice to know?


this believer has chosen to :ignore: the obvious mistake in this baseless claim
and the funny thing is this believer chose to, willful ignorance anyone?



right you have the power to release your will to begin with..no one else does...not even your god which shows how insignificant and impotent your god is...until you release your will.

Yes.

You have to prove it is baseless. Claiming it doesn't make it so.

Everyone does.

 

[Muffled]

Your religion does not seem to have helped you become a good person, at all. From your posts there seems to be something very wrong with you.

If you have an issue with that which is good, then you have made the classic mistake of cosidering evil, good and good, evil.

 

[waitasec]

Yes.



Everyone does.

then salvation is based on the person...just as i suspected.

You have to prove it is baseless. Claiming it doesn't make it so.

An unbeliever has voluntarily chosen not to have a good life.

you made the claim, prove it

 

[PolyHedral]

If it were me preparing to go to that theatre that day at that time, God would simply have said "Don't go to the theatre today" and I would have obeyed and been saved. Who you know makes a difference.

So why was anyone there at all?

If you have an issue with that which is good, then you have made the classic mistake of cosidering evil, good and good, evil.

"Good" and "evil" are only bad proxies for benefit, really.

 

[Draka]

If it were me preparing to go to that theatre that day at that time, God would simply have said "Don't go to the theatre today" and I would have obeyed and been saved. Who you know makes a difference.

So then, God DID ordain that that guy would shoot up the place. He obviously knew about it, knew it was going to happen, and didn't bother to stop it or to warn away certain people from going, including those with innocent children. He must have wanted that guy to kill those people then. He was acting through him. To say otherwise is just foolish.

Oh, and if you do die in some horrendous way, then are we to just assume you ****** off god in some way and you "deserved" it? We should remember that then right? If you die by anything other than natural causes at old age...you must have ****** off god and you deserved to die and go to hell...otherwise god would have warned you and you would have avoided the horrendous death.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

If you have an issue with that which is good, then you have made the classic mistake of cosidering evil, good and good, evil.

You have not evidenced anything good, and in fact seem rather fond of promoting it's opposite. I think its you who have mistaken the one for the other.

 

[Muffled]

then salvation is based on the person...just as i suspected.


you made the claim, prove it

No the basis for salvation is the offer of salvation by Jesus. I get to choose whether I will accept the offer or not but those men living before Jesus had no offer to choose. I am a man like those before Jesus but i have a basis to choose while they didn't.

I have peace love and joy. These can't be manufactured. My best evidence is my wife who believes in God but has not given her life to Jesus. For her all people are bad and almost every situation a disaster. There is hardly any joy peace or love there. My son i an avowed atheist. He is always disgruntled and often angry with the way people act and is not happy with his situation. He lacks joy peace and love. Then there is my daughter who acknowledges God but doesn't want to follow His rules. She also has problems witth the way people act and problems that stem from the way she acts. She has no joy peace and love.

 

[Muffled]

So why was anyone there at all?
"Good" and "evil" are only bad proxies for benefit, really.

Because they did not know Jesus intimately enough to be warned not to go. If we have not heard of someone who escaped, perhaps it is becasue it is not as big news as those who died. The only place i have ever heard stories of people escaping disasters this way is CBN.

Not necessarily. What is good for one person may be bad for another. Sugar is great for me. I process it into energy quickly and get rid of what I don't need. However for a diabetic sugar is a problem. However there is an ultimate good, in that a correctly working body can consume sugar. However sugar is not a benefit for the diabetic. These days sugar is declared to be an evil. I don't see that as realistic.

 

[waitasec]

No the basis for salvation is the offer of salvation by Jesus. I get to choose whether I will accept the offer or not but those men living before Jesus had no offer to choose. I am a man like those before Jesus but i have a basis to choose while they didn't.

right. it's your choice....your act...you own your salvation.

I have peace love and joy. These can't be manufactured. My best evidence is my wife who believes in God but has not given her life to Jesus. For her all people are bad and almost every situation a disaster. There is hardly any joy peace or love there. My son i an avowed atheist. He is always disgruntled and often angry with the way people act and is not happy with his situation. He lacks joy peace and love. Then there is my daughter who acknowledges God but doesn't want to follow His rules. She also has problems witth the way people act and problems that stem from the way she acts. She has no joy peace and love.

so what? i don't need jesus to have peace love and joy...

 

[Muffled]

So then, God DID ordain that that guy would shoot up the place. He obviously knew about it, knew it was going to happen, and didn't bother to stop it or to warn away certain people from going, including those with innocent children. He must have wanted that guy to kill those people then. He was acting through him. To say otherwise is just foolish.

Oh, and if you do die in some horrendous way, then are we to just assume you ****** off god in some way and you "deserved" it? We should remember that then right? If you die by anything other than natural causes at old age...you must have ****** off god and you deserved to die and go to hell...otherwise god would have warned you and you would have avoided the horrendous death.

Absolutely not. The person was acting by his own will and was not acting according to the will of God. However God does at times ordain people to do such things. God said that He ordained Nebuchadnezzar to destroy Israel and take people captive. He also ordained Cyrus to allow His people to return to Israel.

God knows everything and rarely intervenes.

This isn't neccessarily the case. From my youth the devil has sought to take my life but God would not allow it. However there are scenarios where a person serves God with the cataclysmic end of his life.

There isn't any other time for me to die since I am in old age already.

 

[Muffled]

You have not evidenced anything good, and in fact seem rather fond of promoting it's opposite. I think its you who have mistaken the one for the other.

This is exactly my point. If there are differing views on what is Good, the only way of resolving the issue is for there to be God who is Good and the one who defines it.

 

[PolyHedral]

This is exactly my point. If there are differing views on what is Good, the only way of resolving the issue is for there to be God who is Good and the one who defines it.

Or it means that "good" is a vague predicate that doesn't correspond to anything in reality, and so doesn't have an objective definition at all.

 

[idav]

Or it means that "good" is a vague predicate that doesn't correspond to anything in reality, and so doesn't have an objective definition at all.

You may be onto something there.

Genesis 1
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Luke 18
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

What is good?

 

[Muffled]

You may be onto something there.

Genesis 1
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

Luke 18
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

What is good?

I believe the verse told you: only God.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I believe the verse told you: only God.

Which doesn't say anything at all, does it?

 

[johnhanks]

I have peace love and joy. These can't be manufactured. My best evidence is my wife who believes in God but has not given her life to Jesus. For her all people are bad and almost every situation a disaster. There is hardly any joy peace or love there. My son i an avowed atheist. He is always disgruntled and often angry with the way people act and is not happy with his situation. He lacks joy peace and love. Then there is my daughter who acknowledges God but doesn't want to follow His rules. She also has problems witth the way people act and problems that stem from the way she acts. She has no joy peace and love.

What a conveniently packaged family you have, each in her/his neat little pigeonhole behaving precisely according to stereotype. Almost beggars belief.