How does the Epic of Gilgamesh discredit the story of Noah’s flood?

[Subduction Zone]

They pose no argument to support the claim that its "scholarly consensus". Maybe you have to do some research to find out what scholarly consensus is.

Dude!! I quoted them saying just that. Do you even know what a meta study is?

 

[firedragon]

I quoted them saying just that.

No you didnt.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No you didnt.

I did too. Go back to my post where I quoted my source.

By the way, you have further disqualified yourself from demanding any evidence. All you have now is denial. A person that denies evidence when presented cannot demand any.

 

[firedragon]

I did too. Go back to my post where I quoted my source.

It does not say scholars consensus is that "Moses is a myth".

 

[Subduction Zone]

It does not say scholars consensus is that "Moses is a myth".

If one can reason logically it does.

Are you trying to say that proving The Lord of the Rings to be fictional does not prove that Frodo Baggins is fictional? That appears to be your claim here.

 

[firedragon]

If one can reason logically it does.

Are you trying to say that proving The Lord of the Rings to be fictional does not prove that Frodo Baggins is fictional? That appears to be your claim here.

Thats not logical reasoning, the Lord of the Rings author claims this is fiction.

Historically, there is no real, archeological evidence for Moses. That does not mean the character never existed. Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. The claim was "scholarly consensus that Moses was a myth". There is no such consensus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thats not logical reasoning, the Lord of the Rings author claims this is fiction.

Historically, there is no real, archeological evidence for Moses. That does not mean the character never existed. Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. The claim was "scholarly consensus that Moses was a myth". There is no such consensus.

So what? Given enough time one could easily lose the author's disclaimer. You missed the point.

And you got your quote wrong. There is a qualifier needed for that quote to be correct. Let's see if you realize what it is. Here is a hint, the lack of evidence for the Flood is evidence against the Flood.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No its not Joelr. It may very well be that both had an older single source. So saying that one option is "very likely" is a possibility, but history or/and criticism does not work on possibilities.

I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree wholeheartedly!

He is of course wrong if one source is older than the earliest known example of another historians will usually conclude that the source with older examples of its writings was the original.

Of course the Gilgamesh story is just a small piece of evidence that tells us that the Flood of Noah never happened. It is the all of the other endless evidence that refutes the tale.

 

[firedragon]

So what? Given enough time one could easily lose the author's disclaimer. You missed the point.

Nah. You missed the point. Lol. This is scholarly consensus?

Of course the Gilgamesh story is just a small piece of evidence that tells us that the Flood of Noah never happened

Absolutely false. It is only a piece of evidence, that speaks of a possibility, that another person had the same episode mythicised.

So you as I said deviated from the claim "scholarly consensus is that Moses was a myth". Because it is a false claim.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nah. You missed the point. Lol. This is scholarly consensus?



Absolutely false. It is only a piece of evidence, that speaks of a possibility, that another person had the same episode mythicised.

So you as I said deviated from the claim "scholarly consensus is that Moses was a myth". Because it is a false claim.

Wow! Talk about projection. No, that was not scholarly consensus. Why ask such a misleading question?

Oh my! Is English a second language for you? You just contradicted yourself. You first claimed it was not evidence and now you are. And you failed to find the qualifier that you needed. The proper phrase is: "Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence". (the bolding is mine). In the case of the flood myth absence of evidence for the flood is evidence against it. If such an event would have occurred it would have left massive evidence behind. That evidence is not to be seen.

Meanwhile the same does apply to the Exodus myth. The Bible gives numbers that would amount to roughly 2 million people. Two million people roaming the desert for forty years would have left evidence behind. And when they find older evidence of smaller groups that reinforces that. It is actually rather strong evidence against the Exodus myth.

 

[firedragon]

Wow! Talk about projection. No, that was not scholarly consensus. Why ask such a misleading question?

Oh my! Is English a second language for you? You just contradicted yourself. You first claimed it was not evidence and now you are. And you failed to find the qualifier that you needed. The proper phrase is: "Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence". (the bolding is mine). In the case of the flood myth absence of evidence for the flood is evidence against it. If such an event would have occurred it would have left massive evidence behind. That evidence is not to be seen.

Meanwhile the same does apply to the Exodus myth. The Bible gives numbers that would amount to roughly 2 million people. Two million people roaming the desert for forty years would have left evidence behind. And when they find older evidence of smaller groups that reinforces that. It is actually rather strong evidence against the Exodus myth.

No scholarly consensus that Moses was a myth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No scholarly consensus that Moses was a myth.

Just keep telling yourself that if it comforts you. Just as my example with Lord of the Rings, or if you prefer Harry Potter, since in the books themselves I do not think that it says that they are fiction, showing that the book is fiction shows that the characters of that book are fiction. The consensus of scholars is that the Exodus is mythical. That means that the lead character would also be mythical. Or if you prefer legend.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

It doesn't!

It is only the "Bible was plagiarized so it must not be true" crowd that is satisfied by this.

But think about this. When Christian missionaries went from China to India to Africa to even South America, they continued to find flood stories. This was an event that happened throughout the Earth and nearly every culture seemed to have a myth for it.

So what happened? Well, my theory is that the water level was once lower due to the Ice Age. After the ice melted, the water filled in lower areas forcing people to move. It didn't really "flood the whole world" so much as fill much of the world with water, which later drained into the oceans. I have a projected map, and it kinda shows what I'm saying.

As you'll notice, there is more land, especially south of China, north of Australia, and east of Russia.

The map mentions Sundaland and Beringia.

Sundaland - Wikipedia
Beringia - Wikipedia

During the last glacial period, sea levels were lower and all of Sundaland was an extension of the Asian continent. As a result, the modern islands of Sundaland are home to many Asian mammals including elephants, monkeys, apes, tigers, tapirs, and rhinoceros. The flooding of Sundaland separated species that had once shared the same environment.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Where did you get this - "90 x 90 x 120!"??

Tablets XI & XII.

The unit of measurement was stated in cubits.
But the point I was stressing, was the ratios of them.

Also Genesis is 100% a mythic text and a world flood has been ruled out by geologists using several different lines of evidence.

It’s quite obvious where your bias lays.

No, counter-arguments from most geologists are directed toward discrediting Young Earth Creationism. (How convenient.) But YEC has no bearing on the Flood. Such arguments are straw men.

Global warming is revealing many mammals, some very well preserved, buried within the perma-frost of the extreme north.
Tell me, how did they get in that fresh-water ice & muck (not ‘on top’ of it, but deep within it)? And what about the contents found in some of their stomachs, grasses and other plants that grew in temperate climates?

A few other questions: according to the Biblical account of the Flood, who brought the flood? Who gave Noah his instructions, including on building that ideal vessel? Did Noah have to get the animals, or did they come to him? Who must’ve been behind that? Who does the account say closed the Ark’s door? And afterward, who opened it?

So we’re to expect God did nothing else?
If the account reveals Divine intervention in bringing the animals to Noah, we can reasonably conclude that Jehovah God returned them to their original habitat after the flood.

In fact, to remove God from the Flood account (since He was the cause), you’d have to ignore almost all of it.


So just ignore it. And the questions posited about those animals within the permafrost, will remain unanswered.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It doesn't!

It is only the "Bible was plagiarized so it must not be true" crowd that is satisfied by this.

But think about this. When Christian missionaries went from China to India to Africa to even South America, they continued to find flood stories. This was an event that happened throughout the Earth and nearly every culture seemed to have a myth for it.

So what happened? Well, my theory is that the water level was once lower due to the Ice Age. After the ice melted, the water filled in lower areas forcing people to move. It didn't really "flood the whole world" so much as fill much of the world with water, which later drained into the oceans. I have a projected map, and it kinda shows what I'm saying.

As you'll notice, there is more land, especially south of China, north of Australia, and east of Russia.

The map mentions Sundaland and Beringia.

Sundaland - Wikipedia
Beringia - Wikipedia

Flood stories tend to occur when ancient peoples lived in areas prone to flooding. If a bad flood happens the story gets passed on and they tend to grow in the telling. That there are multiple Flood stories is not evidence for the Noah's Ark myth.


And one side point that I want to clear up. Even during the maximum drop in seal level due to the ice age, Australia was still cut off as your image shows. There was a much shorter over seas trip to it. And that almost certainly facilitated the migration of the Aboriginals to that continent. I should hit up the dingo thread where the myth of dingoes arriving across a land bridge is mentioned. They first appeared about 4,000 years ago in Australia, and there was no drop down in sea level at that time. They were almost certainly domestic dogs that later went feral.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Tablets XI & XII.

The unit of measurement was stated in cubits.
But the point I was stressing, was the ratios of them.

It’s quite obvious where your bias lays.

No, counter-arguments from most geologists are directed toward discrediting Young Earth Creationism. (How convenient.) But YEC has no bearing on the Flood. Such arguments are straw men.

Global warming is revealing many mammals, some very well preserved, buried within the perma-frost of the extreme north.
Tell me, how did they get in that fresh-water ice & muck (not ‘on top’ of it, but deep within it)? And what about the contents found in some of their stomachs, grasses and other plants that grew in temperate climates?

A few other questions: according to the Biblical account of the Flood, who brought the flood? Who gave Noah his instructions, including on building that ideal vessel? Did Noah have to get the animals, or did they come to him? Who must’ve been behind that? Who does the account say closed the Ark’s door? And afterward, who opened it?

So we’re to expect God did nothing else?
If the account reveals Divine intervention in bringing the animals to Noah, we can reasonably conclude that Jehovah God returned them to their original habitat after the flood.

In fact, to remove God from the Flood account (since He was the cause), you’d have to ignore almost all of it.


So just ignore it. And the questions posited about those animals within the permafrost, will remain unanswered.

And your ratios claim has never been properly substantiated. You claimed it was supported by science but there are no such articles to be found. Only one fake paper that appears to have been commissioned by Ken Ham.

 

[firedragon]

Just keep telling yourself that if it comforts you. Just as my example with Lord of the Rings, or if you prefer Harry Potter, since in the books themselves I do not think that it says that they are fiction, showing that the book is fiction shows that the characters of that book are fiction. The consensus of scholars is that the Exodus is mythical. That means that the lead character would also be mythical. Or if you prefer legend.

No consensus about Moses.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And your ratios claim has never been properly substantiated. You claimed it was supported by science but there are no such articles to be found. Only one fake paper that appears to have been commissioned by Ken Ham.

Are you for real?

Modern naval architecture supports it. Those ratios - again, 30:5:3 - are incorporated the world over.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And your ratios claim has never been properly substantiated. You claimed it was supported by science but there are no such articles to be found. Only one fake paper that appears to have been commissioned by Ken Ham.

And really, what mainstream scientists want to offer their support to a claim they are against?

That argument isn’t realistic.