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How does the Epic of Gilgamesh discredit the story of Noah’s flood?

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hockeycowboy said:
Are you for real?

Modern naval architecture supports it. Those ratios - again, 30:5:3 - are incorporated the world over.
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You have yet to provide a source for that claim. When I have looked at ratios I see a wide variety. This is your claim you need to substantiate. it. Also this argument fails. Those rations are all for powered vessels. Whether by steam, sail, or other means. The Ark was just a floating barge that was not under tow. The round shape in the Epic of Gilgamesh might be conceivably more stable in such a case. I am not claiming it.

Let's see some valid evidence for your claims. You do realize that if I post a list of vessels, many of them with different ratios, that your claim as you have used it will be busted, don't you?
 
Samantha Rinne

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Subduction Zone said:
Flood stories tend to occur when ancient peoples lived in areas prone to flooding. If a bad flood happens the story gets passed on and they tend to grow in the telling. That there are multiple Flood stories is not evidence for the Noah's Ark myth.


And one side point that I want to clear up. Even during the maximum drop in seal level due to the ice age, Australia was still cut off as your image shows. There was a much shorter over seas trip to it. And that almost certainly facilitated the migration of the Aboriginals to that continent. I should hit up the dingo thread where the myth of dingoes arriving across a land bridge is mentioned. They first appeared about 4,000 years ago in Australia, and there was no drop down in sea level at that time. They were almost certainly domestic dogs that later went feral.
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Yes, and this accounts for the depiction of water everywhere except Mount Ararat. And the whole ark thing. Far more likely, over several generations, the water level raised however many feet. This was not a "flood" and there was probably not a boat in many case. Rather they were guided to safety through a long harrowing journey on foot from point A to B. The "Ark" was really God's protection, no actual boat was required. In some cases, this flood effect was dramatic but temporary. The area around the Sphinx for instance has a water line.

Giza, Center of Earth (page 8 of 10)

08_2ndpyramid.jpg


Also the shape of the waste edge reminds of water erosion by waves breaking at a steep coast. But maybe it is just a symbolic hint, as nobody can prove if the pyramid wasn't intentionally planned in this shape.

In written history, there is one reference to pyramids surrounded by water. The Hellenic historian Herodotus mentions them in his book Inquiries, book 2, chapter 13. At such a high sea level, in fact only the two large pyramids at Giza would project out of the water, about 33 meters.
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Btw, this also accounts for the damaged nose of the Sphinx.

I showed those two Wikipedia articles to point something out. These landmasses are widely accepted by historical and scientific communities. There are more than 40 articles or reports about Sundaland alone, and the continental shelf can clearly be seen by underwater surveys.

There are also over 500 flood legends worldwide. This is not a fish story from a single culture. This was kinda a dramatic event, but not necessarily a "flood" so much as a rise in water table. I have my own theory as to why it happened, and yes, it jives with the idea that humanity was very wicked indeed.
 
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Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Thats invalid. Scholars don't use Frodo and Lord of the Rings like you for their "scholarly consensus".
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LOL! They do not need to. It was merely an analogy to try to get you to understand your logical error. It appears that there is some severe cognitive dissonance affecting you right now. That can happen when one's cherished beliefs are shown to be wrong. The story of Exodus and Moses are inseparably intertwined. If one is thought to be fictitious then the other one has to be fictitious as well. It was shown that there is scholarly consensus that Exodus is mythical. If Exodus is mythical how can the main protagonist of Exodus be anything but that?

Getting back to the Lord of the Rings it is the same as admitting that the story is fiction but still claiming that Frodo is real.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Samantha Rinne said:
Yes, and this accounts for the depiction of water everywhere except Mount Ararat. And the whole ark thing. Far more likely, over several generations, the water level raised however many feet. This was not a "flood" and there was probably not a boat in many case. Rather they were guided to safety through a long harrowing journey on foot from point A to B. The "Ark" was really God's protection, no actual boat was required. In some cases, this flood effect was dramatic but temporary. The area around the Sphinx for instance has a water line.

Giza, Center of Earth (page 8 of 10)

08_2ndpyramid.jpg




Btw, this also accounts for the damaged nose of the Sphinx.

I showed those two Wikipedia articles to point something out. These landmasses are widely accepted by historical and scientific communities. There are more than 40 articles or reports about Sundaland alone, and the continental shelf can clearly be seen by underwater surveys.

There are also over 500 flood legends worldwide. This is not a fish story from a single culture. This was kinda a dramatic event, but not necessarily a "flood" so much as a rise in water table. I have my own theory as to why it happened, and yes, it jives with the idea that humanity was very wicked indeed.
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When you bring up the Sphinx you are grasping at straws. There is no evidence of your myth either. Why believe something that is neither Biblical or scientific? It appears that you want the least believable story possible.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Thats not a good argument for a mythicist.
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Oh my! Name calling. You do not even understand the pejorative that you are using. By the way, that is against the rules here.

And it is a very good argument. You have not response to the clear logic that shows you to be wrong except for denial.
 
R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Human men as scientists theists storytellers quote I know I reason.

Named O earth God. It's heavens from one body god O planet.

As theists said when you irradiate earths heavens as a lying dimwitted nuclear stone scientist as men by man quotes....about stone laws.....the God heavens saved life by mass ground water body evaporation and then flooding.

To cool burning gases you liars set alight as scientists.

Man stories.
Living man stories.
Theists against natural existence as liars. Scientist of stone products men of science changed.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
And it is a very good argument. You have not response to the clear logic that shows you to be wrong except for denial.
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Lol. OK. Can you engage with this logic?

The gentleman quoted "Bart Ehrman". Lets say he believes the NT stories like the dove, the pig episode, the zombie apocalypse, etc etc are all myths, does that mean he believes Jesus is a myth?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Lol. OK. Can you engage with this logic?

The gentleman quoted "Bart Ehrman". Lets say he believes the NT stories like the dove, the pig episode, the zombie apocalypse, etc etc are all myths, does that mean he believes Jesus is a myth?
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No, Bart believes that Jesus was a real person. But sorry, your "Moses" is myth. There is some rather weak evidence that a person named Jesus and was crucified existed. It is not very strong, but it is enough so that many, though from what I hear fewer every day, think that he actually existed. Moses existence depends on the Exodus myth. The Jews in Egypt, the enslavement, the order of death of infants, on and on all of it mythical and that is all that there is of Moses. There are no tales of him that are not mythical. Jesus's existence does not rely on the various mythical tales about him. It is a bad comparison.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
No, Bart believes that Jesus was a real person.
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Right. So engaging with your logic that just because someone believes those magical stories are myths, the person "MUST BE A MYTH" is absolutely false.

And you will never ever in your entire life be able to say something like "scholarly consensus is that Moses is a myth". You can only say "some scholars believe so".
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Right. So engaging with your logic that just because someone believes those magical stories are myths, the person "MUST BE A MYTH" is absolutely false.

And you will never ever in your entire life be able to say something like "scholarly consensus is that Moses is a myth". You can only say "some scholars believe so".
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Strawman. Try again.

By the way, I have not even bothered to search for claims, even though they are logically there, that Moses was a myth. You have not supported one of your false claims as of yet. When you do then you can demand evidence. Until then if I feel like it I may support some claims but since you effectively lost by default, there really is no need for me to do so.
 
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