How Does the Existence of God Negate Darwinian Evolution?

[Subduction Zone]

Molecular biology has shown that even a single cell is irreducibly complex. And all the parts must be in place simultaneously or the cell can't function. Since life is built of these "machines," the idea that natural processes could have made a living system is absurd. Although the highly intricate machines in cells often resemble those designed by humans, in many cases they are much more advanced than what man has been able to create.

Nope, you are simply being lied to and believing those lies. No one has ever come close to even finding evidence for irreducible complexity.

 

[Skywalker]

Well he ha specific claims of organs and systems that could not have evolved, but those claims were refuted a long time ago.

Bill Gates said that DNA is more advanced than any software they ever created. Wouldn't the cell have a designer, since it's far more advanced than any man made software? Researchers believe DNA could be the basis of a staggeringly powerful new generation of computers. After computer scientist Leonard Aldeman realized that human cells and computers process and store information in much the same way, researchers around the world began creating tiny biology-based creating, using test tubes of DNA-laden water to crunch algorithms and spit out data. Researchers are also hoping that genetic material can self-replicate and grow into processors so powerful that they can handle problems too complex for silicon-based computers to solve.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes. It is amazing and its evolution is well understood. Has been for some time. I will link a paper for you to read:

Evolution of the bacterial flagellum

It might take you a little while to plow through that.

The Journal Natural Biochemistry tells of two scientists who built a biologically based computer that can't lose a game of tick-tack-toe to a human, and doesn't need any prompting from outside sources to compete. Question: If the basic building block of life is smarter than man, don't you think it required something smarter than man to design it?

 

[McBell]

The Journal Natural Biochemistry tells of two scientists who built a biologically based computer that can't lose a game of tick-tack-toe to a human, and doesn't need any prompting from outside sources to compete. Question: If the basic building block of life is smarter than man, don't you think it required something smarter than man to design it?

So what.
Interesting the way it is worded, "can't lose a game".
Do you assume this means that it won?
How much do you know about tick-tack-toe?

So no, this is not the least bit impressive to anyone who understands that most games of tick-tack-toe end in a draw.

A draw means you did not lose.
It also means you did not win.

You have set your bar so low it actually hurts to get down to it.

 

[ppp]

Well he ha specific claims of organs and systems that could not have evolved, but those claims were refuted a long time ago.

Behe had claims, but that is all he had. He claimed that a given bacterial flagellum was irreducibly complex. Yes, that was refuted. But let's pretend it wasn't. -- How does one differentiate between a flagellum where we don't know the mechanisms of its formation vs a flagellum that is irreducible? -- Behe has no methodology for making that distinction, which means that his claim was based on an argument from ignorance fallacy.

 

[ppp]

Interesting the way it is worded, "can't lose a game".

Heh

 

[Skywalker]

So what.
Interesting the way it is worded, "can't lose a game".
Do you assume this means that it won?
How much do you know about tick-tack-toe?

So no, this is not the least bit impressive to anyone who understands that most games of tick-tack-toe end in a draw.

A draw means you did not lose.
It also means you did not win.

You have set your bar so low it actually hurts to get down to it.

Animals have irreducible complexity. How does one explain the tick? The tick has dozens of elaborate weapons in its saliva, which it injects into the wound. To help it camp out on its host for a few days and avoid detection, the tick's saliva contains an anesthetic so the host won't feel it and interrupt the meal. To keep the host's blood flowing, the tick's saliva contains compounds to disable the clotting mechanism. It also tricks the host's immune system into keeping white cells away so the tick enjoys a feast of the red cells it needs. Entomologist Stephen Wikel, who has studied 10,000 ticks, stated, "We probably have a lifetime of work ahead of us," in order to discover how this complex process works. Dr. Ribeiro said these tiny creatures "have a very ancient wisdom." Do you think random natural processes could have come up with this incredible chemical cocktail-or could this come only from an intelligent Creator?

 

[McBell]

Animals have irreducible complexity.

Bold empty claim.

Actually, at this point I say it is a bold face lie.

 

[Skywalker]

Bold empty claim.

Actually, at this point I say it is a bold face lie.

Other animals that have irreducible complexity are the seemingly simple ocean sponge, which scientists have discovered actually produces fiber optics better than our most sophisticated manufacturing methods. The sponge's thin glass fibers are capable of transmitting light better than industrial fiber optic cables used for telecommunication. Commercial manufacturing methods require high temperatures and produce relatively brittle cable that can crack if bent too far.

The sponge's fibers, grown at cold temperatures, are much more flexible, and can even be tied in a knot without breaking. By adding traces of sodium to the fibers, the sponge increases their ability to conduct light-something that cannot be done in commercial manufacturing. Scientists at Bell Laboratories hope to eventually learn how to duplicate the manufacturing process of this lowly sponge. Joanna Aizenburg at Bell Labs admitted, "Modern technology cannot yet compete with some of the sophisticated optical systems possessed by biological organisms." Most of us would think that an ocean sponge is a pretty rudimentary life form on the evolutionary chart, yet top scientists are trying to cope its sophisticated optical system!"

The sponge has complex systems. According to the journal Nature, there is an emerging field called biomimetics, in which scientists try to understand how biological systems are engineered and apply the principles to developing technology. Why can something that's "engineered," and that's more advanced than what scientists can create, couldn't have just happened by mindless, random chance processes?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Bill Gates said that DNA is more advanced than any software they ever created. Wouldn't the cell have a designer, since it's far more advanced than any man made software? Researchers believe DNA could be the basis of a staggeringly powerful new generation of computers. After computer scientist Leonard Aldeman realized that human cells and computers process and store information in much the same way, researchers around the world began creating tiny biology-based creating, using test tubes of DNA-laden water to crunch algorithms and spit out data. Researchers are also hoping that genetic material can self-replicate and grow into processors so powerful that they can handle problems too complex for silicon-based computers to solve.

Complexity does not imply a designer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Journal Natural Biochemistry tells of two scientists who built a biologically based computer that can't lose a game of tick-tack-toe to a human, and doesn't need any prompting from outside sources to compete. Question: If the basic building block of life is smarter than man, don't you think it required something smarter than man to design it?

Sorry this is a poorly asked question that makes no sense.

And no matter how desperate you are in your arguments they will all lose because you cannot provide one key ingredient. You need evidence to win an argument. There are mountains of evidence for evolution. There is no reliable evidence for creation beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Behe had claims, but that is all he had. He claimed that a given bacterial flagellum was irreducibly complex. Yes, that was refuted. But let's pretend it wasn't. -- How does one differentiate between a flagellum where we don't know the mechanisms of its formation vs a flagellum that is irreducible? -- Behe has no methodology for making that distinction, which means that his claim was based on an argument from ignorance fallacy.

Yep, and I could see where you were going before the end of your post. Behe never had evidence, he only had unsubstantiated claims. Just like every other creationist.

 

[Skywalker]

Complexity does not imply a designer.

What about a glowing protein in jellyfish that allows surgeons to illuminate cancerous tissue while they operate to remove it; and a starfish called the brittlestar, coated with tiny lenses that act as a collective "eye," which engineers are using as a model for creating sensors and guidance systems. The giraffe needs a powerful heart to pump blood up its long neck to the brain. If we want to believe in evolution, let's imagine that the very first giraffe manages to evolve the two-foot-long heart it needs to get blood up a neck that long. Its heart is now so powerful that, as the giraffe bends its head down, the increased blood pressure is more than enough to burst the blood vessels in its brain. So this first giraffe must be intelligent enough to realize that an improvement is needed and then set out to somehow grow an incredibly complex organ structure to fix the problem.

And it must do so within a matter of days-before it dies of thirst or brain damage-or else this new species will shortly be extinct. (Of course, how would it know an improvement was needed unless it had first had a brain hemorrhage? And then it wouldn't know anything, it would be dead.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

What about a glowing protein in jellyfish that allows surgeons to illuminate cancerous tissue while they operate to remove it; and a starfish called the brittlestar, coated with tiny lenses that act as a collective "eye," which engineers are using as a model for creating sensors and guidance systems. The giraffe needs a powerful heart to pump blood up its long neck to the brain. If we want to believe in evolution, let's imagine that the very first giraffe manages to evolve the two-foot-long heart it needs to get blood up a neck that long. Its heart is now so powerful that, as the giraffe bends its head down, the increased blood pressure is more than enough to burst the blood vessels in its brain. So this first giraffe must be intelligent enough to realize that an improvement is needed and then set out to somehow grow an incredibly complex organ structure to fix the problem.

And it must do so within a matter of days-before it dies of thirst or brain damage-or else this new species will shortly be extinct. (Of course, how would it know an improvement was needed unless it had first had a brain hemorrhage? And then it wouldn't know anything, it would be dead.)

Can you please stop with the pointless arguments from ignorance.

Your present tactic is to use arguments that amount to "I don't know, therefore God". That is a logical fallacy and is no different from saying:

"I don't know, therefore pixies did it".

 

[Subduction Zone]

And @Skywalker , there was no "first giraffe". Just as there was no "first man". Giraffes evolved slowly (at least on a human scale) your fever dream of evolution is incorrect. Please try to learn what you are trying to argue against.

 

[Skywalker]

Can you please stop with the pointless arguments from ignorance.

Your present tactic is to use arguments that amount to "I don't know, therefore God". That is a logical fallacy and is no different from saying:

"I don't know, therefore pixies did it".

The giraffe defies the theory of evolution. Do you really think that there's any way the giraffe could have gradually evolved and developed its special features randomly over time, as evolution demands? Remember, if there is even one creature that could not have evolved, then there must be a Creator. Macroevolution does not explain how life could have come into being, or how life could have evolved from simple to complex forms. Spontaneous generation is scientifically impossible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The giraffe defies the theory of evolution. Do you really think that there's any way the giraffe could have gradually evolved and developed its special features randomly over time, as evolution demands? Remember, if there is even one creature that could not have evolved, then there must be a Creator. Macroevolution does not explain how life could have come into being, or how life could have evolved from simple to complex forms. Spontaneous generation is scientifically impossible.

No, the giraffe only defies your incredibly ignorant version of evolution. It does not defy the theory as we know it today at all.

By the way, evolution is not "random" in the way that you seem to think that it is. Why would you make such a claim?

And thank you for admitting that evolution is a fact at the end of your post, And then making a complete non sequitur to boot. I am sorry, but this is pathetic. Right now you are not even debating at a 7th grade level.

 

[Skywalker]

No, the giraffe only defies your incredibly ignorant version of evolution. It does not defy the theory as we know it today at all.

By the way, evolution is not "random" in the way that you seem to think that it is. Why would you make such a claim?

And thank you for admitting that evolution is a fact at the end of your post, And then making a complete non sequitur to boot. I am sorry, but this is pathetic. Right now you are not even debating at a 7th grade level.

Apart from one fossil, evolution from one species to another has no evidence. Science accepts evolution so uncritically. Our immensely complex universe was created by the hand of God. It wasn't created by chance. The world is not the accidental result of random chance processes. There is a qualitative difference between humans and animals. Life has meaning. Human history has purpose. Humans have special value and there is a purpose behind life. A frog never turns into a prince. It is only a fairy tale and it will never be a scientific fact. The evidence tells us that we were made by a Creator. We are not here by accident; we were created for a reason.

 

[McBell]

Other animals that have irreducible complexity are the seemingly simple ocean sponge, which scientists have discovered actually produces fiber optics better than our most sophisticated manufacturing methods. The sponge's thin glass fibers are capable of transmitting light better than industrial fiber optic cables used for telecommunication. Commercial manufacturing methods require high temperatures and produce relatively brittle cable that can crack if bent too far.

The sponge's fibers, grown at cold temperatures, are much more flexible, and can even be tied in a knot without breaking. By adding traces of sodium to the fibers, the sponge increases their ability to conduct light-something that cannot be done in commercial manufacturing. Scientists at Bell Laboratories hope to eventually learn how to duplicate the manufacturing process of this lowly sponge. Joanna Aizenburg at Bell Labs admitted, "Modern technology cannot yet compete with some of the sophisticated optical systems possessed by biological organisms." Most of us would think that an ocean sponge is a pretty rudimentary life form on the evolutionary chart, yet top scientists are trying to cope its sophisticated optical system!"

The sponge has complex systems. According to the journal Nature, there is an emerging field called biomimetics, in which scientists try to understand how biological systems are engineered and apply the principles to developing technology. Why can something that's "engineered," and that's more advanced than what scientists can create, couldn't have just happened by mindless, random chance processes?

48 pages...
It is sad that you have not been able to convince yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Apart from one fossil, evolution from one species to another has no evidence. Science accepts evolution so uncritically. Our immensely complex universe was created by the hand of God. It wasn't created by chance. The world is not the accidental result of random chance processes. There is a qualitative difference between humans and animals. Life has meaning. Human history has purpose. Humans have special value and there is a purpose behind life. A frog never turns into a prince. It is only a fairy tale and it will never be a scientific fact. The evidence tells us that we were made by a Creator. We are not here by accident; we were created for a reason.

One fossil? One fossil!!??? Are you kidding me? And there is much much more than just countless fossils that are evidence for the theory of evolution.

Seriously since you have no understanding of any of the sciences would you care to try to learn? Right now you are just making a joke of yourself. There is no reason that you cannot learn. You are not lacking in intelligence. You are merely amazingly ignorant. Ignorance can be cured by education.