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How does the story of Adam and Eve compatible with science?

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Because in Bahai view, there was a reason that these stories were written symbolicly without actually telling they are symbolic. It was intentional not to say it explicitly that all those stories are symbolic.
For Baha'is, in all the apparent historical narrative in the Bible, is any of it not symbolic? I would suspect that Baha'is would say, "yes". But who decides when it was a real event and a symbolic event? Of course, it is the Baha'is that believe they have the correct interpretation. But again, why accept the virgin birth story? That could so easily be made symbolic. And the resurrection story could be made so easily to be true and literal... since the God you say you believe in created life out of clay. But I know it doesn't fit the overall beliefs of the Baha'i Faith.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Yes, it is said Adam had children.
Yes. Children from whom all of the Bible characters sprang. You can trace the genealogy as precise as you can trace this measuring line.
320px-Inch_tape.jpg
at full length.

"Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam."

It could be that there was really an Eve as a wife of Adam. I am not sure though.
Christian are sure there literally was.

But the scriptures has also given a symbolic meaning to it as well.
Which scriptures are those?
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Yes. Children from whom all of the Bible characters sprang. You can trace the genealogy as precise as you can trace this measuring line.
320px-Inch_tape.jpg
at full length.


Christian are sure there literally was.


Which scriptures are those?

I mean, in my view, the Bible Prophets have used the real characters of Adam and Eve, and has created a symbolic story that contains other meaning than literal.

"Now ponder this: Animals, despite the fact that they lack reason and understanding, do not make colors the cause of conflict. Why should man, who has reason, create conflict? This is wholly unworthy of him. Especially white and black are the descendants of the same Adam; they belong to one household. In origin they were one; they were the same color. Adam was of one color. Eve had one color. All humanity is descended from them. Therefore, in origin they are one. These colors developed later due to climates and regions; they have no significance whatsoever. Therefore, today I am very happy that white and black have gathered together in this meeting. I hope this coming together and harmony reaches such a degree that no distinctions shall remain between them, and they shall be together in the utmost harmony and love."
Abdulbaha

 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I mean, in my view, the Bible Prophets have used the real characters of Adam and Eve, and has created a symbolic story that contains other meaning than literal.

"Now ponder this: Animals, despite the fact that they lack reason and understanding, do not make colors the cause of conflict. Why should man, who has reason, create conflict? This is wholly unworthy of him. Especially white and black are the descendants of the same Adam; they belong to one household. In origin they were one; they were the same color. Adam was of one color. Eve had one color. All humanity is descended from them. Therefore, in origin they are one. These colors developed later due to climates and regions; they have no significance whatsoever. Therefore, today I am very happy that white and black have gathered together in this meeting. I hope this coming together and harmony reaches such a degree that no distinctions shall remain between them, and they shall be together in the utmost harmony and love."
Abdulbaha

No, but they fight over food, territory, and mates. And this seems to imply that Adam and Eve were the first humans, but I didn't think Baha'is believed that. That they believe humans evolved. But evolved from which animal?
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
No, but they fight over food, territory, and mates. And this seems to imply that Adam and Eve were the first humans, but I didn't think Baha'is believed that. That they believe humans evolved. But evolved from which animal?
No, Baha'u'llah wrote that before Adam, there were other Prophets, but the reason that there is no record of them, is due to their old times when humanity had not invented the kind of writing we have now.
Adam and Eve are the first people who had started a new human civilization, that lasted for 6000 years, known as Adamic Cycle. We are descendants of them.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Disagreement with atheist misinterpretation of the Bible is natural and normal to me, especially the hysterical nonsense coming from religious atheists.
An odd comment since atheists aren't rligious by definition. And what correct interpretation of the Bible is there given the many disagreements among Christians and Jews, and even Muslims?
I’m with the few that “put out his hand and take from the tree of life” gaining entrance to heaven- the Christians of today in other words. Atheists go down to hell with the father of lies Satan.
This sounds absurd, why would bad Christians go to heaven but good atheists go to hell?
The Liar- Stephen Fry the movie, a semi-autobiography is apparently ready to show, that’ll be why you/‘subZone’ keep the ‘liar’ theme going. I won’t watch it having read the plot on Wikipedia.

Professor Donald Cornwallis Treadway Trefusis is an eye catching name though. It reminded me of a physics Professor called Treadgold I once worked for who was Christian. He asked me what I thought of Scripture on a flight from Rome to Manchester (if a Christian is ever lucky enough to hear God’s voice repeatedly say “go back to Manchester”, as I have, it means household linen, heaven). I was an atheist before and had never read the Bible but said it was written to control people.

I look forward to walking on the street of pure gold in the New Jerusalem, catching up with that Professor again.
I notice you weren't able to rebut my explanation of the Adam and Eve myth as a set up by God, and the other failures by God to "fix" the problem of sin that God caused in the first place. It sounds like a God problem, not a sin problem.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Disagreement with atheist misinterpretation of the Bible is natural and normal to me, especially the hysterical nonsense coming from religious atheists.

I’m with the few that “put out his hand and take from the tree of life” gaining entrance to heaven- the Christians of today in other words. Atheists go down to hell with the father of lies Satan.

The Liar- Stephen Fry the movie, a semi-autobiography is apparently ready to show, that’ll be why you/‘subZone’ keep the ‘liar’ theme going. I won’t watch it having read the plot on Wikipedia.

Professor Donald Cornwallis Treadway Trefusis is an eye catching name though. It reminded me of a physics Professor called Treadgold I once worked for who was Christian. He asked me what I thought of Scripture on a flight from Rome to Manchester (if a Christian is ever lucky enough to hear God’s voice repeatedly say “go back to Manchester”, as I have, it means household linen, heaven). I was an atheist before and had never read the Bible but said it was written to control people.

I look forward to walking on the street of pure gold in the New Jerusalem, catching up with that Professor again.
Who the heck is Steven Fry and what does anything he wrote have to do with evolution? What is odd is that you do not understand your own Bible. If you did you would see that God failed. God was evil in the Garden of Eden myth. It might work as a morality tale but there are ways that we can test ideas. That is what science does. It tests and refutes ideas. The ideas that are more likely to be true, or are closer to the real world survive. The myths of Genesis died in the 1800's and earlier.

I doubt if you could understand evolution. You might be able to understand how we know that there was no flood of Noah.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
No, Baha'u'llah wrote that before Adam, there were other Prophets, but the reason that there is no record of them, is due to their old times when humanity had not invented the kind of writing we have now.
Adam and Eve are the first people who had started a new human civilization, that lasted for 6000 years, known as Adamic Cycle. We are descendants of them.
All unlikely. I suggest we leave interpreting of the Old Testament to the Jews, afterall they wrote it.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
He's a very intelligent and well educated English actor who happens to be gay and has been targeted by the right for being both gay and an atheist. He's produced some documentaries that really upset the Christian right.
I thought so. He used to to a bit with "Dr. House" before he was House. My brain is a sieve. Why get mad a Fry? Just because he makes one's beliefs look silly? Then it is time to reconsider one's beliefs.
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
He's a very intelligent and well educated English actor who happens to be gay and has been targeted by the right for being both gay and an atheist. He's produced some documentaries that really upset the Christian right.
Is he not a liar as inferred by his first semi-autobiography The Liar? I don’t target him but know he is a very active participant on this forum and also others. I don’t know of the documentaries you mention but seen clips of him talking in a hysterical fashion about his version of what God is, which is paradoxical and can only be propaganda if he’s an atheist.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Is he not a liar as inferred by his first semi-autobiography The Liar? I don’t target him but know he is a very active participant on this forum and also others. I don’t know of the documentaries you mention but seen clips of him talking in a hysterical fashion about his version of what God is, which is paradoxical and can only be propaganda if he’s an atheist.

Well, maybe. But even I as religious admit when a non-religious person has a point. I am not universally right, just because I am religious. But that is me. I accept you do it differently, but I don't do as you just because you are also religious.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Is he not a liar as inferred by his first semi-autobiography The Liar? I don’t target him but know he is a very active participant on this forum and also others. I don’t know of the documentaries you mention but seen clips of him talking in a hysterical fashion about his version of what God is, which is paradoxical and can only be propaganda if he’s an atheist.
Steven Fry has nothing better than to post here? Who is he? I do like some of his work.

And I thought that "The Liar" in his book was another character in it.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Is he not a liar as inferred by his first semi-autobiography The Liar?
I'm not familiar with the book. What I have seen in interviews and documentaries Stephen Fry is rational, lucid, very well educated, and excellent at expressing his point of view. As a result he has been a target of Christian extremists.

Christian extremists want to vilify any prominent person who is gay, and/or atheists, and/or liberal, and/or minorities, and/or trans, etc. Christian extremists have a list of characteristics and attributes they are intolerant of in others.
I don’t target him
I'm not sure why you brought him up except as a target for ridicule.
but know he is a very active participant on this forum and also others.
I doubt that. If he is and anonymous I would be in agreement with him on most every issue.
I don’t know of the documentaries you mention but seen clips of him talking in a hysterical fashion about his version of what God is, which is paradoxical and can only be propaganda if he’s an atheist.
Hysterical? Maybe you are referring to some other Stephen Fry. Or you are exagerating to impugn his character (which backfired)?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Because with the story of Adam and Eve and the resurrection, the parting of the seas, David and Goliath etc, they are told as if they are historical events... not visions, not parables, and not symbolic. For me, still, the easiest explanation is that they are myth.
When Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan, he spoke of all the characters in the story in a historical setting as well. But was the point of the story to be explaining history, or about a lesson in the story's characters? That is the real meaning of mythology. Myth doesn't mean just wrong facts. A myth is a story, or a combination of symbols and signs all combined to communicate certain truths.

Mythology is a vehicle of communication, that tends to be much more effective at imparting truths than just stating facts. The reasons for this is because they engage the imaginations and the emotions of the listeners. This is a more effective method of learning than just raw facts. This is borne out by neuroscience, incidentally.

The Adam and Eve story continues straight into the continuing story that leads to Noah, Abraham and Joseph. All told as if those things were real, historical events.
Historical fiction. Gone with the Wind cites the Civil War, and the Civil War really happened. But did the events in the novel actually happen, or were they a story about something else, whose purpose was not to be a book of history in the sense a modern historian attempts to write events into a chronology for the greatest accuracies for the sake of posterity?

But yes, what you cite is Jewish "history", in the sense of origin myths. These stories are a combination, a collection of myths and actual recalled histories. King David and the two kingdoms did actually exist. However, did Moses, did Adam and Eve in the same sense as David? Very unlikely, in that this "history" was written thousands of years after the supposed events, not based on documents, or evidences, but upon the stories told and passed on from folk tales to the priesthood, to a written form.

While they do serve as a "history" in the minds of those listening, the import of the "facts" of the story are secondary to the the sense of identity that these are meant to impart. It's that sense of self or group identity that is the actual intent of the stories, not to record detailed and factually historic events from a dispassionate historian's point of view. These are origin myths, these are the tales of self-identity in order for a group of tribes to come together through a shared mythology. That is their import and significance, and the reason they were written in the first place.
I have absolutely no problem if you tell me it's all fiction... just stories made up by an ancient people and filled with supernatural things supposedly done by their God.
Not "just stories". But a portrait of their own significance as a people united under a collective tribal deity. In this sense, they are the collective imagination, making a greater whole than just the sum of the individual parts. This can hardly be minimized.
 
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