How Early Christians Understood John 1:1

[Villager]

There is only one thing that matters- substitutionary atonement, that imparts the righteousness of the Christ, perfection, to the sinner, by faith. If one believes that Jesus was less than perfect, did not die and take the penalty of those cursed who hang on a tree, if one believes in 'Christus Victor', anything other than penal substitutionary atonement, one may as well be a Hindu. Now if one accepts that perfection is necessary in order to justify sinners, if one assumes that Jesus was correct in saying that there is none good (i.e. perfect) but God, only Jesus can be perfect, so Jesus must be God. So, if one says that Jesus is not God, one can confidently expect the fate of those on the broad road to destruction- along with the majority of those who insist that Jesus is God, of course, because so few today believe in penal substitutionary atonement.

 

[Shermana]

So when Jesus said "be perfect" he was really saying "be perfect, even though you can't".

So, if one says that Jesus is not God, one can confidently expect the fate of those on the broad road to destruction

I believe the exact thing for people who say Jesus is G-d, because it says anyone who believes in a different version of Christ will not be saved.

 

[Villager]

So when Jesus said "be perfect" he was really saying "be perfect, even though you can't".

So it may appear. One then has to wonder why so many millions of presumably intelligent people have taken interest in a man who is not apparently very cogent.

 

[javajo]

Im not sure what form of christianity you've been taught, but I dont go past the scriptures for what the true teaching is.

Yes you do, you believe the trash of the watchtower and Russel's (a 33rd degree Mason) "new world" that only leads people to Hell. Jehovah's Witnesses EXPOSED! Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. John 2:19-21

 

[Shermana]

And you believe the trash that the NIV and Trinitarian Antinomians believe which will in fact send you to hell. I think you said something once about putting Theology aside to actually look at the text, I asked if you'd do the same, you went silent.

 

[javajo]

which will in fact send you to hell.

Guess we'll see soon enough.

 

[Mark2020]

NIV doesn't insert two verbs into a single verse like the NWT

(Romans 9:5 [NWT]) to whom the forefathers belong and from whom the Christ [sprang] according to the flesh: God, who is over all, [be] blessed forever. Amen.

(Romans 9:5 [NIV]) Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

 

[Pegg]

Yes you do, you believe the trash of the watchtower and Russel's (a 33rd degree Mason) "new world" that only leads people to Hell. Jehovah's Witnesses EXPOSED! Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. John 2:19-21

1Cor 15:44 "... If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one"

Jesus was raised in a body...the spiritual one.

 

[sawyer]

sdf

 

[Faithofchristian]

John 1:1 θεος ην ο λογος. - 'God was the word' OR 'A god was the Word'

Im not going to give you a big long post about why the indefinite article should be used in this verse...im not going to bother with explaining greek grammar or the english equivalent or what the various scholars all say about this verse...im not even going to tell you what you should believe about this verse one way or the other.

I am only going to show you how 3rd century coptic christians translated the greek text into their coptic language. Coptic was a language used in Egypt in the early centuries.
The Coptic manuscripts are very important because Coptic is similar to English as it uses indefinite articles. So if you want to know how the early christians understood John 1:1 and how they translated it....


LOOK AT IT HERE IN THE COPTIC VERSION OF JOHN 1


And I hope you will use this information to make your own determination on whether John1:1 should have the indefinite article (a) inserted.

Well first it was the JW's bible that changed
John 1:1, from ( and the word was God )
To ( and the word was a God )
Which changes the whole meaning of
John 1:1.
Which by JW'S bible ( a god ) can mean any god.
But which KJV 1611 ( was God ) pointing to only one God.

Let's for say, that I ask you for( a ) pen, which means any pen will do.
But if I was to ask you for( the )pen, which means I am asking for a certain pen and not just any pen.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

yes we do believe he acted as a co-creator with his Father.

We believe that Proverbs 8 is referring to Jesus Christ:

22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth....27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, ...30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men

this ties in with what Johh said "all things were created through him and for him and apart from him not one thing came into existence"

With all you have said, now please explain Isaiah 44:24 , where YHWH said, I am YHWH that maketh all things; that spreadeth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Do you believe that Jesus created the world, as in John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

In your view, what role, if any, did Jesus play under God the Father from the creation of the world until his birth?

This helps prove that the Messiah was YHWH manifest in the flesh. In Isaiah 44:24 YHWH said he made all things, and stretched forth the heavens alone, and spreadeth abroad the earth by himself.

 

[Faithofchristian]

With all you have said, now please explain Isaiah 44:24 , where YHWH said, I am YHWH that maketh all things; that spreadeth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself.

Truebeliever, if I may say, You have certain people who have no idea that God and Jesus are one and the same person.

This is why it is written in the book of
Matthew 1:23 " Behold, a virgin shall with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Em-man-uel, being interpreted is, God with us"

This meaning that Jesus is God in the flesh, meaning that Jesus and God are one and the same person.

Alot of people don't understand, Why would an all powerful God, come down here in the flesh body of Christ Jesus.

All because God will not let us go thru things, that God himself will not go thru himself also.

So God devised a plan to come down here in the flesh and blood body of Christ Jesus, to show us exactly how we are to do things.
Seeing that Christ Jesus is our example to follow, for when Jesus was praying, Jesus was actually showing us how we are to pray to God the Father.

Alot of people will question, about Jesus praying in the garden, What was Jesus doing praying to himself.
Of course not, Jesus was showing us by example how we are to pray to God the Father

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Truebeliever, if I may say, You have certain people who have no idea that God and Jesus are one and the same person.

This is why it is written in the book of
Matthew 1:23 " Behold, a virgin shall with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Em-man-uel, being interpreted is, God with us"

This meaning that Jesus is God in the flesh, meaning that Jesus and God are one and the same person.

Alot of people don't understand, Why would an all powerful God, come down here in the flesh body of Christ Jesus.

All because God will not let us go thru things, that God himself will not go thru himself also.

So God devised a plan to come down here in the flesh and blood body of Christ Jesus, to show us exactly how we are to do things.
Seeing that Christ Jesus is our example to follow, for when Jesus was praying, Jesus was actually showing us how we are to pray to God the Father.

Alot of people will question, about Jesus praying in the garden, What was Jesus doing praying to himself.
Of course not, Jesus was showing us by example how we are to pray to God the Father

I wish Pegg would reply.

 

[Miracle]

John 1:1 θεος ην ο λογος. - 'God was the word' OR 'A god was the Word'

Im not going to give you a big long post about why the indefinite article should be used in this verse...im not going to bother with explaining greek grammar or the english equivalent or what the various scholars all say about this verse...im not even going to tell you what you should believe about this verse one way or the other.

Okay. So what I think you are saying or trying to establish here is that Jesus and God are different people or the same?

 

[sojourner]

There is only one thing that matters- substitutionary atonement, that imparts the righteousness of the Christ, perfection, to the sinner, by faith. If one believes that Jesus was less than perfect, did not die and take the penalty of those cursed who hang on a tree, if one believes in 'Christus Victor', anything other than penal substitutionary atonement, one may as well be a Hindu. Now if one accepts that perfection is necessary in order to justify sinners, if one assumes that Jesus was correct in saying that there is none good (i.e. perfect) but God, only Jesus can be perfect, so Jesus must be God. So, if one says that Jesus is not God, one can confidently expect the fate of those on the broad road to destruction- along with the majority of those who insist that Jesus is God, of course, because so few today believe in penal substitutionary atonement.

Substitutionary atonement is not the only valid (or best) theological construct for soteriology. In fact, it creates problems for the concept of unconditional love, which is the basis for God.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Click the first link in my signature to search the Bible in any translation, and study the original languages. I am feeling a little skeptical of what you are saying, but remain hopeful for a civil discussion.

 

[ChanaR]

Seeing that Christ Jesus is our example to follow, for when Jesus was praying, Jesus was actually showing us how we are to pray to God the Father.

Alot of people will question, about Jesus praying in the garden, What was Jesus doing praying to himself.
Of course not, Jesus was showing us by example how we are to pray to God the Father

You are confused. Yeshua was not "praying to himself." You are either a Modelist or you simply don't understand Trinitarianism. It's one God, but it's three persons. Yeshua is not the Father, therefore when he was praying to the Father, he was not praying to himself.

 

[ChanaR]

1Cor 15:44 "... If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one"

Jesus was raised in a body...the spiritual one.

A glorified body is not merely spirit. Yeshua ate fish after he was resurrected. Thomas TOUCHED him. He was not a ghost.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You are confused. Yeshua was not "praying to himself." You are either a Modelist or you simply don't understand Trinitarianism. It's one God, but it's three persons. Yeshua is not the Father, therefore when he was praying to the Father, he was not praying to himself.

Christ Jesus was showing by example, how we are to pray to God the Father