How Exactly Did The Russians Influence The U.S. Elections?

[Scuba Pete]

thus one can assume that she put personal above country

Just because YOU assume that does not mean that a reasonable person would assume that. You've given us a false dichotomy. It wasn't about putting her interests above the country's... unless of course you want to vilify her needlessly. Even the FBI suggested that there was absolutely no evidence that her intent was treasonous as your suggest.

Do I dislike her political stance? Yes?

I question how well you know her political stance except as it was spoon fed to you by Trump's disinformation campaign. More often the stance regurgitated by her skeptics isn't her stance at all. You're much too "wise" to listen to her on what she believes. Why work that hard when the hatriots are willing to distort it for you?

Trump seemed to connect to the mood

If by 'connect' you mean pander to the latent hate and bigotry of the Republicans, the white supremacists and the communists, then we'll have to agree. He done did that good. Real good. Which part appealed to you more? The hate or the bigotry?

 

[dust1n]

I haven't seen one shred of evidence or heard a good argument that would make me believe that Russians somehow got Trump elected. We do know that the same intelligence agencies that are claiming "the Russians did it!" are the same intelligence agencies that got us into the first Iraq war under false pretenses and have used mass surveillance against it's own people for years and lied about it and now we are supposed to trust them with the claim that somehow Russians manipulated the 2016 U.S. election. I'd say there is probably far more evidence and a better case to be made that many of our own domestic media sources attempted to overtly and covertly manipulate public opinion influencing the election in Clinton's favor rather than Russia in Trumps.

1.) Russia hacked both the RNC and DNC, but released DNC records to Wikileaks in certain times to maximize affect.

2.) People actually believe Russia Times and their constant peddling of conspiracy nonsense.

3.) Russia literally pays people to sit on the internet for the production of memes, arguing with people online, and disseminating disinformation... see:

It looks like Russia hired internet trolls to pose as pro-Trump Americans

Now, whether any of that actually made a difference in the result of the election is another matter. It may be the case had Russia not been involved in any of these things, that America would still elect Trump. I mean, if they are dumb enough to do so under one set of circumstances, than it isn't that hard to imagine they are dumb enough to do so under different circumstances either.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You go thru all the work

Work? I've got them on speed dial just for you. You won't listen to reason so I'm resorting to pictures to help you out. It's like having a discussion with Zoolander. Hello... is anyone home?

Just for you, my friend. Just for you! ​

 

[Revoltingest]

Work? I've got them on speed dial just for you. You won't listen to reason so I'm resorting to pictures to help you out. It's like having a discussion with Zoolander. Hello... is anyone home?

Is this an admission that you have no relevant point to make?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Is this an admission that you have no relevant point to make?

You should check the edit my friend. I made it funnier.

 

[Revoltingest]

You should check the edit my friend. I made it funnier.

I'll pass.
You've nothing to offer.

 

[Underhill]

Feel free to provide links & statements which claim more than has been shown so far.
But if you really had them, wouldn't you have already done so, instead of making it
about your low opinion of Republican intelligence? But this is an ironic claim, since
Democrats just lost an election to what should've been an easy to beat Trump.
Who's the dummy here?

So your argument is that you know better than all the experts, and I'm the dummy. Got it.

As I've repeatedly said, I'm not big on faith.
And simply repeating the same claim over & over doesn't make it more cromulent.

You claimed I downplay everything because I'm anti-war.
I offered an example which disproved your claim.

No, you've misread.
I'm firmly in the anti-Hillary camp.
Voting for Trump (the less dangerous candidate) was simply the path to keeping her out of office.
I'd have voted for Gary Johnson if he had a chance at winning.

You think I don't know that? It doesn't change the fact that you voted for him. He is your responsibility every bit as much as those firmly in his camp.

I get the impression that you believe everyone who voted for Trump is on his side.
Hoo boy...are you ever wrong about that!

It doesn't matter whose camp you are in. You voted for the guy. That makes you a Trump voter.

Now you're sounding petulant.
I'm not "looking for" anything...just offering my views.
He won the election, & is as legitimate as they come, whether we like it or not.

Well that's your opinion. A great many people disagree with you. When it appears the head of the FBI and the Russians are both working to get Trump elected.. it doesn't sound exactly legitimate. He may have won the vote, but the notion that he did so in a fair election is becoming questionable at best.

Sad for you, the losing side.
But I'm pleased as punch....just trying not to show it too much.
Gloating is such bad form.
But if the Russians actually did keep Hillary out of office by airing accurate
information about her & her minions, then I thank these Russian hackers.

Sounds like sour grapes.
Hillary has secret info which embarrasses her...
....then she should question why she's doing such things.

The same reason people have done such things since the first contested election. All these emails did was show how the sausage was made.

I used to think highly of you. I'm seriously beginning to question that assessment. The fact that you are good with Russians hacking people and influencing elections is insane.

I can tell you I wouldn't be happy if they had done the same to make Clinton the president. That she won, maybe. That she did so at the expense of fair elections free of foreign influence, hell no.

 

[esmith]

I question how well you know her political stance except as it was spoon fed to you by Trump's disinformation campaign. More often the stance regurgitated by her skeptics isn't her stance at all. You're much too "wise" to listen to her on what she believes. Why work that hard when the hatriots are willing to distort it for you?

I listened to what she had to say and perused her campaign web page. I didn't like 90% of her ideas and her record speaks for itself on her agenda.

If by 'connect' you mean pander to the latent hate and bigotry of the Republicans, the white supremacists and the communists, then we'll have to agree. He done did that good. Real good. Which part appealed to you more? The hate or the bigotry?

Wow, you mean you are calling over 62.9 million voters haters, bigots, white supremacists, and communists.
I have only a couple of words for that, but the rules of the forum preclude doing so.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Oh snap, in a PM, Revoltingest suggests that he doesn't understand how PizzaGate is "significant".

PizzaGate, the fake story created and spread by Flynn and his son, is indicative of the way Trump's entire campaign was run. Rather than deal with facts and issues, they simply made so many Faketoids about Clinton that it was impossible to keep up. Lie after lie and they piled up deep. Most painted Clinton as some sort of anti-Christ bent on the destruction of the US. Some people were stupid enough to fall for this crap and actually voted for Trump. Welch took it further than the average Trumpite and brought his assault rifle to the Comet Ping Pong. He even fired it as he tried in vain to rescue the sex slaves held by Clinton. Oh my.

In fact, the entire "I hate Hillary" group has fallen for this hatriotism to one degree or another. All of them are complicit in the conning of America. No, you can't make this crap up. As painful as it might be to admit: you've been had and now America will have to pay for your gullibility.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Wow, you mean you are calling over 62.9 million voters haters, bigots, white supremacists, and communists.

You simply love the false dichotomy, don't you? I didn't say that. I didn't even come close. You didn't have to be a bigot to vote for Trump: but it helped. You didn't have to be a white supremacist to vote for Trump: but it also helped. You didn't have to be a hatriot to vote for Trump: but that really really helped. However, you had to be comfortable enough with hate and bigotry to be able to vote for him. If you were as intolerant of those two characteristics as I am, then anyone would have been a better choice. An easy choice. A far, far better choice.

I have only a couple of words for that,

No one can force you to believe the truth. You're free to put me on ignore if you like. I don't mind telling the King he has no clothes.

 

[Revoltingest]

So your argument is that you know better than all the experts, and I'm the dummy. Got it.

That's not an accurate inference.
Some points.....
- Don't call Republican voters dumb when their guy just trounced yours.
- The experts don't claim certainty in anything yet presented by fans of the Russian conspiracy theory.
- I don't leap to belief without evidence.
- I don't trust government, especially one with an agenda served by this conspiracy theory.

You think I don't know that? It doesn't change the fact that you voted for him. He is your responsibility every bit as much as those firmly in his camp.

He is also your responsibility to the same extent.
Your camp ran Hillary, compelling me to not vote for Johnson.

It doesn't matter whose camp you are in. You voted for the guy. That makes you a Trump voter.

This is obvious.
It's something I've oft said.
Your reason for restating it?

Well that's your opinion. A great many people disagree with you. When it appears the head of the FBI and the Russians are both working to get Trump elected.. it doesn't sound exactly legitimate. He may have won the vote, but the notion that he did so in a fair election is becoming questionable at best.

Is it unfair that Hillary was doomed by the release of information?
Is it also unfair that she had a corrupt DNC & news media on her side?
Tough noogies for the loser.
Politics is never fair.
Never has been.
Never will be.

Go Wikileaks!

The same reason people have done such things since the first contested election. All these emails did was show how the sausage was made.

And the voters reacted.

I used to think highly of you.

Big mistake.
Haven't you noticed my moniker?
I chose it wisely & intentionally.

I'm seriously beginning to question that assessment.

Doubt is good.

The fact that you are good with Russians hacking people and influencing elections is insane.

To clarify, I don't want foreign powers steering our elections.
But we're dealing with an historical event here.
It happened that someone hacked into the DNC.
The result was good, even if the method was wrong.

I see even more corruption on the Hillary side.
NPR, a government creation with tax subsidy, took her side.
Many other media were corrupt, eg, feeding her debate questions in advance.
It would be best if we didn't face corruption from our own or other governments.

I can tell you I wouldn't be happy if they had done the same to make Clinton the president. That she won, maybe. That she did so at the expense of fair elections free of foreign influence, hell no.

No one made Trump president.
There were vigorous efforts on both sides, & he simply beat her.
You can lament what you blame on Evil Ivan, but she was beaten by leaked info.
That's like blaming the person who caught her with her hand in the cookie jar.
Instead, she shouldn't have been stealing cookies.
That is what made her vulnerable.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't leap to belief without evidence.

Look at your legs. You've been jumping to conclusions so much lately that they're HYUGE. It appears that you make a decision first and then only accept the facts that support your decision. Your mind is already made up and you don't want to be confused by the facts. As proof, I submit that you actually voted for Trump.

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh snap, in a PM, Revoltingest suggests that he doesn't understand how PizzaGate is "significant".

That's inaccurate.
What I've been saying is that if you have a point to make about it, you must state
the point, not just claim "Pizzagate!", as though that single word says it for you.

PizzaGate, the fake story created and spread by Flynn and his son, is indicative of the way Trump's entire campaign was run. Rather than deal with facts and issues, they simply made so many Faketoids about Clinton that it was impossible to keep up. Lie after lie and they piled up deep. Most painted Clinton as some sort of anti-Christ bent on the destruction of the US. Some people were stupid enough to fall for this crap and actually voted for Trump. Welch took it further than the average Trumpite and brought his assault rifle to the Comet Ping Pong. He even fired it as he tried in vain to rescue the sex slaves held by Clinton. Oh my.

In fact, the entire "I hate Hillary" group has fallen for this hatriotism to one degree or another. All of them are complicit in the conning of America. No, you can't make this crap up. As painful as it might be to admit: you've been had and now America will have to pay for your gullibility.

Here's what you're doing.....
You have a particular prejudice against Trump.
Your view of Pizzagate confirms your prejudice.
But this is fallacious because this was an independent event, & proves nothing about Trump or his campaign.

Btw, Jestin Coler (a registered Democrat), aka Allen Montgomery, is the biggest fake news purveyor found so far.

 

[Revoltingest]

Look at your legs. You've been jumping to conclusions this whole election cycle that they're HYUGE. It appears that you make a decision first and then only accept the facts that support your decision. Your mind is already made up and you don't want to be confused by the facts. As proof, I submit that you actually voted for Trump.

I see that you avoid specifics because that isn't working for you.
To hide behind generalities is the refuge of the incompetent.

 

[esmith]

You simply love the false dichotomy, don't you? I didn't say that. I didn't even come close. You didn't have to be a bigot to vote for Trump: but it helped. You didn't have to be a white supremacist to vote for Trump: but it also helped. You didn't have to be a hatriot to vote for Trump: but that really really helped. However, you had to be comfortable enough with hate and bigotry to be able to vote for him. If you were as intolerant of those two characteristics as I am, then anyone would have been a better choice. An easy choice. A far, far better choice.

Then what did you imply with the statement
"pander to the latent hate and bigotry of the Republicans, the white supremacists and the communists"

No one can force you to believe the truth. You're free to put me on ignore if you like. I don't mind telling the King he has no clothes.

The truth or your truth? Big difference.
Nah never put anyone on ignore. I get a good chuckle out of some posters and get to try and understand the thinking of some (got to watch it though, doc has me on blood pressure medicine)

 

[Underhill]

That's not an accurate inference.
Some points.....
- Don't call Republican voters dumb when their guy just trounced yours.

I didn't. I simply pointed out that you expected me to take your, and other republicans, opinion over that of experts around the globe. You took it as me calling republicans dumb.

- The experts don't claim certainty in anything yet presented by fans of the Russian conspiracy theory.
- I don't leap to belief without evidence.
- I don't trust government, especially one with an agenda served by this conspiracy theory.

Certainty is impossible. I never claimed certainty. But everything points to them. Nothing points to anyone else.

He is also your responsibility to the same extent.
Your camp ran Hillary, compelling me to not vote for Johnson.

I am a republican who supported the other guy in the primary and voted for Hillary as the best option. How on earth does that make me responsible?

This is obvious.
It's something I've oft said.
Your reason for restating it?

Is it unfair that Hillary was doomed by the release of information?
Is it also unfair that she had a corrupt DNC & news media on her side?
Tough noogies for the loser.
Politics is never fair.
Never has been.
Never will be.

Go Wikileaks!

And the voters reacted.

Big mistake.
Haven't you noticed my moniker?
I chose it wisely & intentionally.

Doubt is good.

To clarify, I don't want foreign powers steering our elections.
But we're dealing with an historical event here.
It happened that someone hacked into the DNC.
The result was good, even if the method was wrong.

I see even more corruption on the Hillary side.
NPR, a government creation with tax subsidy, took her side.
Many other media were corrupt, eg, feeding her debate questions in advance.
It would be best if we didn't face corruption from our own or other governments.

No one made Trump president.
There were vigorous efforts on both sides, & he simply beat her.
You can lament what you blame on Evil Ivan, but she was beaten by leaked info.
That's like blaming the person who caught her with her hand in the cookie jar.
Instead, she shouldn't have been stealing cookies.
That is what made her vulnerable.

Yes, she was beaten by leaked info along with an FBI director who chose to highlight her investigation while ignoring Trumps.

Listen, I am not going to keep going around and around on this. Just remember this conversation. Remember you are the one who claimed she was 'more corrupt' than Trump. I suspect you will eat those words before long.

 

[columbus]

That's fine. Have an investigation. Hillary lost because the truth was exposed.

Whether that's true or not, Trump can be said to have won because he lied with impunity.
He said he would release his tax returns. He refused to do so.
And here's the point. Hillary is not important any more. Trump is. He was commonly touted as the "tells it like it is" candidate while lying and dissembling in public. And the usual response from his supporters was to change the subject or explain why lying is OK when it's a lie they want to hear.
Tom

 

[Scuba Pete]

What I've been saying

No, that's inaccurate. You didn't say this until just now. Don't reinvent history.

I see that you avoid specifics because that isn't working for you.

Which generality did I hide behind? You're being overly vague here. Be specific (or be Atlantic).

Then what did you imply with the statement

Imply? I didn't 'imply' a thing! Trump pandered to those people. That's a contention and not an implication. What didn't I imply? I didn't imply or contend that you're one of those people. Is there guilt by association? That's up to you to figure out on your own. Me? I wouldn't associate with the KKK or any other hate group for just that reason. If they are for someone, then I'm looking elsewhere. But then we obviously have different standards in that regard.

The truth or your truth?

Neither regard Trump as anything but a bully bigot. He's made that as plain as plain can be.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Whether that's true or not, Trump can be said to have won because he lied with impunity.

Word.
The Great American Con.

 

[YmirGF]

Ya know, in my generation statements like the above would get one labeled as a "traitor".

We have reached a new low in our society when we have a segment of our society that is more than willing to see our free elections to be influenced by foreign sources simply because they like the outcome. Personally, I have never taken "the ends justifies the means" position, but then I'm an old-timer.

What is somewhat hilarious here, Metis is that you make it sound like the American government, throughout modern history, has never meddled in the internal affairs of other sovereign nations. Hell, meddling with the internal affairs of other sovereign nations is practically the great American pastime. Then, when there is a possibility that a foreign government may have meddled with your hideous excuse for an election that is somehow a reason to start screaming? LOL. Shall I start a charity to ship tonnes of boxes of Kleenex down to hard done by American voters? Boo-fricken-hoo...