How far has mankind fallen?

[Heneni]

We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

We have ridiculed god and called it enlightenment.

In light of these things....are we not compelled to feel any remorse? Any kind of inclination to try something else that might WORK?

 

[Comicaze247]

We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

Agreed.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

Agreed.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

I disagree on that note. Yes, people who manipulate the system shouldn't be rewarded, but not all people who depend on welfare are lazy. They just have very bad luck. Once one is homeless, it's a very tough hole to climb out of.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

Disagreed. If I were a 12 year old girl who had been raped and gotten pregnant, I a) wouldn't be able to give the child the love and care that it needs, and b) I would be passing on the seed of a terrible person.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

Never heard of that, but I agree with you.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

I'd need an example to agree.

We have abused power and called it politics.

OMG, agreed.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

Not necessarily. It depends on if you're looking at the material things they have, or if you're looking at their general happiness and enlightenment. I look at some of the people on this forum and wish I were as enlightened and knowledgeable as they are. Is that bad?

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

Depends on one's definition of what is profane.

We have ridiculed god and called it enlightenment.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions.

In light of these things....are we not compelled to feel any remorse? Any kind of inclination to try something else that might WORK?

I feel no remorse for using what I have been gifted with: a mind, a body, and a soul. And what do you mean by "inclination to try something else"?

 

[Riverwolf]

You can attach whatever label you want to something, either painting it with colors that are pleasing to the eye or with chaotic randomness that give non-epileptic people seizures.

Doesn't change what it is. And what it actually is often doesn't have a word in human tongues.

I'd also like to say that a few of those are completely subjective, where different people will disagree on whether or not it's moral. I'm not offended at all by profanity or pornography, so I don't see it as pollution. While abortion is killing, for sure, often it's better than the alternative. We kill insects, right? Still murder. But such is the Law of the Jungle, which, however we may pretend the contrary, still applies today. And I don't see how ridiculing God is enlightenment. Ridiculing any of the gods, or, heck, ridiculing ANYTHING, would be closing another door on something that could vary well be important.

Though I do agree with the one you mentioned on children not being disciplined so that their so-called "self-esteem" isn't hurt... though ironically such children can become weak in mind in the long run because they aren't able to build their own self-esteem through discipline. It's built for them instead by others.


Oh! and BTW, you missed one: We accept bribes and call it business. THAT one is most annoying.

 

[gnostic]

I think you left out the part where American soldiers can torture people, and then deny it is torture. (Referring to the war on terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq.)

 

[gnostic]

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

Never heard of that, but I agree with you.

I have.

In Sydney, some years back, a Christian pro-lifer murdered a security guard working clinic that do abortion, and tried to justified the murder that since the guard worked at the clinic, he is guilty by association. But the fact of matter, the guard is actually working for a security company, not actually employed by the clinic itself. Had he not murdered the guard, he would have killed someone else at the clinic - eg. patient, doctor, nurse, receptionist, or janitor, etc.

We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

We have ridiculed god and called it enlightenment.

In light of these things....are we not compelled to feel any remorse? Any kind of inclination to try something else that might WORK?

You have forgotten to include priests molesting children at school or camp, but they called it education or camping.

Or priest sexually assaulting women, but called these "confessions".

Or church covering up these crimes up (in regard to sexual assaults), but called them internal investigations.

 

[3.14]

How far has mankind fallen? , I'm not sure have they stopped falling then?


ps.
I did see mankind get a shovel though

 

[Heneni]

How far has mankind fallen? , I'm not sure have they stopped falling then?


ps.
I did see mankind get a shovel though

Heh heh...well lets assume mankind can shovel themselves out of the pile they have created....how will they do that? Without perspective who knows where to start digging? And also...how does one dig upwards when one is covered in a pile? Unless of course that shovel is for digging a grave.

Heneni

 

[Heneni]

I have.

You have forgotten to include priests molesting children at school or camp, but they called it education or camping.

Or priest sexually assaulting women, but called these "confessions".

Or church covering up these crimes up (in regard to sexual assaults), but called them internal investigations.

True...these things are covered up. And somehow justified. Covering up dirt with dirt only results in more dirt.

 

[Heneni]

Oh! and BTW, you missed one: We accept bribes and call it business. THAT one is most annoying.

What one guy calls a bribe the other calls business..that is subjective too. I cant help feeling that somewhere along the line mankind have decided to call anything they want moral.

Heneni

 

[zenzero]

Friend Heneni,
Now, kindly put *I* in front of all those statements and see how many matches you have; then we will take another step forward.
Society is made up of individuals and only when more individuals have more commonalities does society tilt towards that.
More after your revised post.
Love & rgds

 

[Heneni]

Friend Heneni,
Now, kindly put *I* in front of all those statements and see how many matches you have; then we will take another step forward.
Society is made up of individuals and only when more individuals have more commonalities does society tilt towards that.
More after your revised post.
Love & rgds

I suppose the 'me, myself and I' doctrine has become the central focus of most people in the world, hence nobody thinks that collectively we have become obsessed with ourselves. 'Me, myself and I' can never be wrong.

We worship ourselves and therefore believe we are entitled to anything we want. I think that the more individuals sign up for the 'me, myself and I' religion, the less we connect with others, the more we loose focus, and the less likely we are to survive as a specie.

heneni

 

[zenzero]

Friend Heneni,
You missed the point was trying to make.
Most of those statements is like passing the onus of all evils in society by putting *WE*
Instead it is the individual's duty to clean up the act.
How am I contributing towards global peace.
Besides if you see those statements you will find you may not be contributing towards these evils personally but still they are.
The question then would be what needs to be done? and what needs to be done has to be done without much ado.
Problems are there everywhere but we need solutions to problems not highlighting the problems again and again without anyone doing anything.
Finally even the *I* must go such that goodness remains.
Love & rgds

 

[islamcity]

Consider fallen man and his misery as an inhabitant of the natural world. Consider the disorder around the world, the dreadful wars, the pitting of one nation against another, and one religion against another.

Consider man's uncleanness, helplessness, ignorance and his spiritual darkness with respect to Allah Almighty. Consider the rebellion of nature against him, the curse of work and sweat to which man is enslaved, the innumerable calamities of life, and the knowledge of death ever lurking before him.

Consider fallen man's disregard for neighbors and family. His unaccountable unconcern about himself, coupled with an unrestrained temper. Consider the general outbreak of corruption throughout the world's governments, triggering mans' many ineffectual endeavors to stop it.

Consider mans' amazing resistance to God's grace and his unrelenting resistance against good men. This is a description of fallen man.

 

[Heneni]

Friend Heneni,
You missed the point was trying to make.
Finally even the *I* must go such that goodness remains.
Love & rgds

The point of this thread is to highlight perhaps the problem of the 'I'. The I has not gone has it? If it has...humanity would be a kind of utopia right now.

 

[Heneni]

Consider fallen man and his misery as an inhabitant of the natural world. Consider the disorder around the world, the dreadful wars, the pitting of one nation against another, and one religion against another.

Consider man's uncleanness, helplessness, ignorance and his spiritual darkness with respect to Allah Almighty. Consider the rebellion of nature against him, the curse of work and sweat to which man is enslaved, the innumerable calamities of life, and the knowledge of death ever lurking before him.

Consider fallen man's disregard for neighbors and family. His unaccountable unconcern about himself, coupled with an unrestrained temper. Consider the general outbreak of corruption throughout the world's governments, triggering mans' many ineffectual endeavors to stop it.

Consider mans' amazing resistance to God's grace and his unrelenting resistance against good men. This is a description of fallen man.

Well said! There is no point in trying to hide our failures. And they are dismall. Its better to bring it to light, so that we can honestly have a good look at ourselves and change for the better. But i am not confident that mankind is able to look at himself honestly without some sort of 'honesty'. If humanity has lied to themselves in every concievable way they can, how then will they recongnise anything other than a lie? Even operate without it? Is it possible for this machine of self-deception to turn around?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Heneni,

The point of this thread is to highlight perhaps the problem of the 'I'. The I has not gone has it? If it has...humanity would be a kind of utopia right now.

Where the *I* has gone it is UTOPIA or the *Garden of Eden*; where they *I* remains there what you see still remains.
Only on transcending the mind you would be able to live in UTOPIA or the garden of eden.
Don't believe it, KNOW it from your own experience.
Love & rgds

 

[islamcity]

Friend Heneni,
You missed the point was trying to make.
Most of those statements is like passing the onus of all evils in society by putting *WE*
Instead it is the individual's duty to clean up the act.
How am I contributing towards global peace.
Besides if you see those statements you will find you may not be contributing towards these evils personally but still they are.
The question then would be what needs to be done? and what needs to be done has to be done without much ado.
Problems are there everywhere but we need solutions to problems not highlighting the problems again and again without anyone doing anything.
Finally even the *I* must go such that goodness remains.
Love & rgds

you can not place your words on the situation of ever so called *I* and not everyone can make a change .
considering I am a 14 year old I most certainly cannot do as mauch as people such as presidents, leaders of groups, prime ministers,super stars etc. They have the highest and most effective impact on the attitues and behaviours of all *I*'s,once these high ranking people in society portray and show an overall bad influence, and majority of people have an incorrect understanding, bad attitude and bahaviour then man will continuously fall as populations rise and more people are exposed to such things and people through global media networks and the increase in globalization.

 

[Heneni]

Friend Heneni,


Where the *I* has gone it is UTOPIA or the *Garden of Eden*; where they *I* remains there what you see still remains.
Only on transcending the mind you would be able to live in UTOPIA or the garden of eden.
Don't believe it, KNOW it from your own experience.
Love & rgds

Yes, but there is a reality down here on earth. Mankind was created good. What happened. Me myself and I is what happened. What to do about it? For you i guess it would mean mastering your mind. If mankind has fallen all by themselves, would it not be a bit presumptious to assume that the same mind that made them fall is the same mind that can give them utopia back.

 

[Heneni]

you can not place your words on the situation of ever so called *I* and not everyone can make a change .
considering I am a 14 year old I most certainly cannot do as mauch as people such as presidents, leaders of groups, prime ministers,super stars etc. They have the highest and most effective impact on the attitues and behaviours of all *I*'s,once these high ranking people in society portray and show an overall bad influence, and majority of people have an incorrect understanding, bad attitude and bahaviour then man will continuously fall as populations rise and more people are exposed to such things and people through global media networks and the increase in globalization.

Correct. We have had thousands of years to prove that our minds can concoct in lifes kitchen that which is good for everybody. Our minds have led us astray...to trust in that which has ultimately failed us, is not a good strategy. We have brilliant people on this planet..we have advanced technologically, but we have sunk into moral decay. Not only that we have started to call that which is wrong right. It didnt happen over night, it took some time to cover ourselves up. And now we are so well hidden from ourselves that if god had to put a mirror infront of us, we would deny that the image in the mirror is us.

Heneni

 

[PureX]

Fallen from where? When were we better than we are now?

Now let's see you make the positive list.