How Great is Allah's Love?

[Hellbound Serpiente]

I am SOOOOO TIRED of insinuations that I'm a liar. So, so, tired of it.

I never insinuated you are a liar. I wasn't even talking about you there. I was talking about others here who might get me banned because they start backstage politics with me via trickeries.

I read the stupid book. Cover to dusty, musty horrible cover.

1. Why do you think it's stupid?

2. Do you know Arabic? If not, how can you be so sure about the message you grasped from it?

3. Willing to debate with me anything regarding Qur'an, right here and right now, even though I am busy I am still challenging you because of my conviction of it's truthful. I'll most likely refute you just like I refuted Audie before you without even trying. What do you say, care for going a round?

Have you read it?

Oh i sooo totally didn't ... ... ... which is why I never actually use it quote by quote, verse by verse, to refute misconceptions about it here and other places, and which is why I never even have a healthy debate about it with Muslims who memorized Qur'an by heart.

I might end up replying to this in the same tune like I replied to Audie and her evil language in the same tune, but I don't want some backstage whiners to get me banned.

If you haven't, just read the first two Surahs. You'll get a feel for the book. You'll find that it's EXTREMELY repetitive. You'll find MANY verses like verse 2.

Many beautiful songs get repetitive too, how does that makes it's lyrical status to be "stupid"?

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Worse than the BoM even?

You have to wonder how "God" inspired such
lousy prose.

That's like a non-English speaking person calling Shakespeare's play "lousy". How can you be so sure it's lousy? What are the specific reason for your "whining" about it's prose [yeah, I just said it]?

 

[icehorse]

2. Do you know Arabic? If not, how can you be so sure about the message you grasped from it?

This argument of yours, and the rest of them, are tired and weak and have been answered 100s of times on these forums.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

This argument of yours, and the rest of them, are tired and weak and have been answered 100s of times on these forums.

In other words --- No response other than mere assertions, just like Audie. Please give me a specific response and watch me unleash Armageddon upon those arguments that has been "answered 100s of times on these forums" like I did with Audie's allegation.

Something specific and real, or keep your false accusations to yourself. I might end up increasing the list of whiners here.

 

[icehorse]

In other words --- No response other than mere assertions, just like Audie. Please give me a specific response and watch me unleash Armageddon upon those arguments that has been "answered 100s of times on these forums" like I did with Audie's allegation.

Something specific and real, or keep your false accusations to yourself. I might end up increasing the list of whiners here.

Explain Allah's love towards nonbelievers in the 2nd Surah.

 

[Cooky]

I have no idea whether you are using 'Allah' here as a generic Arabic term for God or asking for an explicitly Islamic conception of theism and divine love?

Because I don't know what your looking for specifically, I will attempt to answer within both an Islamic framework and my own Christian theistic concept.

In terms of Islamic theology, there is a Hadith which extols divine mercy as a force exceeding that of a created mother's care for her offspring:

Narated By 'Umar bin Al-Khattab : Some Sabi (i.e. war prisoners, children and woman only) were brought before the Prophet and behold, a woman amongst them was milking her breasts to feed and whenever she found a child amongst the captives, she took it over her chest and nursed it (she had lost her child but later she found him) the Prophet said to us, "Do you think that this lady can throw her son in the fire?"

We replied, "No, if she has the power not to throw it (in the fire)."

The Prophet then said, "Allah is more merciful to His slaves than this lady to her son."- Sahih Bukhari.
​

Not expressly a reference to divine love but appears to answer your question, I would think, as "love" is a divine attribute of Allah in Islam just like mercy.

I'm a little confounded by this verse... These are women and children "prisoners"... And the Islamic teaching is that Allah is more merciful to his slaves than that woman prisoner is to her child, who is also a prisoner?

I don't get how that shows Allah as loving at all. To me, it's a great example of a lack of love.

...But to answer your question, I used the name Allah to signify that this thread is about Islam. And really, I never meant to portray all women as willing to die for their children, clearly it's not a universal trait, and realistically, I don’t know this particular woman's frame of mind to begin with. I also don't understand how whatever message being portrayed here is holy or good in any way.

To me, it all seems morally dysfunctional, and entirely void of love. If there was "love" in that verse, these women and children wouldn't be prisoners... They'd be free.

 

[Cooky]

Explain Allah's love towards nonbelievers in the 2nd Surah.

I see nothing in the Quran that shows Allah as possessing any traits of true love. I see things calling him "merciful" or "just"... But there's no love in him, whatever he is.

...And it’s been admitted here already that Allah cannot be all loving.

That's not a good God. That's an evil monster, unworthy of praise.

 

[Bird123]

Is Allah's love greater than a mother's love for her child? Or is Allah's love less than that?

God's Love is Unconditional. As for the rest, it comes on a case by case basis. The mother that drowns her children just to get rid of them has very little love in her heart except for herself.
Unconditional Love is never an easy thing. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. In reality, I think very few can sustain this for a lifetime.

Are children of God loving when they threaten or coerce people into following by saying God will hurt them if they do not blindly follow a holy book written by mankind?? This is not God!!
Does God really need people to round up followers to blindly follow holy books? Does God want followers to hurt infidels in any way? This is not God!!

Clearly so many do not have a clue who God really is. God is truly Unconditional Love. As for the rest of us, we will have to learn our way to this point. God will return our actions and choices to teach us what our actions and choices really mean. When one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the Best choices. This will teach us all to Love Unconditionally. At some point all will realize that Unconditional Love is all we want to return to us. Until then, let's do our best to make the best choices we can. If not careful one can choose some mighty hard lessons for oneself.

It's all education at it's best within the realm of total free will. It all leads to the ability to create that Heavenly state and Unconditional Love for all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Explain Allah's love towards nonbelievers in the 2nd Surah.

Spell out the specific verses in the 2nd Surah.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

I'm a little confounded by this verse...

Because it isn't a verse, it is a Hadith. Let me copy/paste the nature of Hadith I reveal to a specific backstage political whin---member here:

"Hadith are just bunch of unverified, unconfirmed HEARSAYS that people made up GENERATIONS AND DECADES after the death of Prophet Muhammad, and later these unverified hearsays were passed on generation from generation.

If the childhood game of telephone hasn't taught you already, hearsays get distorted, twisted, blown out of proportion as they get passed on from one person to another. Now, keep that in mind and think about Hadiths getting passed for CENTURIES!

As such, they are unreliable and most likely false."

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

I see nothing in the Quran that shows Allah as possessing any traits of true love. I see things calling him "merciful" or "just"... But there's no love in him, whatever he is.

...And it’s been admitted here already that Allah cannot be all loving.

That's not a good God. That's an evil monster, unworthy of praise.

I think you misunderstood the Qur'an, then. I have read BOTH the Bible and The Holy Qur'an, there's nothing but message of love in both of them [dare I say, even in Jewish and Hindu Scriptures].

I can't see why you consider him to be an evil monster, unworthy of praise. I know, misunderstandings happens. We are all humans after and I am not accusing you of anything. Maybe you just got things twisted. That's it.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Now that I've dealt with backstage drama and addressed this topic sufficiently, I'll take a nap. I've to go to business-ventures tomorrow. BUT, before I go, just for the sake of learn, I'll just copy/paste something I wrote on other thread about atheists-bigots here so other would know how they operate and how to handle with them. Many atheist in this topic alone showed all the hallmarks I am describing below to the point, I won't name them as I don't want to deal with another drama, but just read this topic and find them out yourself, how they operate and how to handle with them:

"You know, before I start my response to Voile, I’d like to bring to light a trend most people here [especially bigots (and atheists bigots mostly)] follows:

1. They either intentionally misrepresent others side of the story and/or just don’t represent the argument of others side properly unintentionally.

2. They omit out key points that’ll destroy the entire distorted account they make up about your true arguments

3. They also tweak and add their own false additions and personal tweaks.

4. They represent and attack a very distorted version of your true argument. They put words into other’s mouth by saying they have made arguments others haven’t actually made [aka straw man].

5. And most of all --- They accuse of others of the very wiles they themselves are involved in --- Projection and deflection!

In short, they either just misunderstand the other’s side and blow things completely out of proportion unintentionally, and/or present and attack a very distorted version of other’s side intentionally, and/or bring up irrelevant points absolutely no bearing to the true point and/or just make up outright falsehoods.

I find the arguments of bigots [atheists as well as religious] to be utterly rubbish and just a manifest sign of sure bigotry. The very nature of twisted people is that they give twisted answers, and many people here are doing a great job at proving that. We should be careful when dealing with reductionist view of the opposing position from all sorts of bigots, whether they are religious bigots or atheistic bigots. Everything they say should be taken with a grain of salt based on their lack of grasp and/or downright deceit and falsifying about things. It's like they just want to forestall others through designed obfuscation rather than having a healthy discussion for learning."

 

[icehorse]

Spell out the specific verses in the 2nd Surah.

Verses 6-20 would be a good place to start. Is that specific enough for you? I wouldn't want to strain you or anything. There might be all of 300 or 400 words for you to read.

 

[stvdv]

Is Allah's love greater than a mother's love for her child? Or is Allah's love less than that?

Greater

 

[dybmh]

Is Allah's love greater than a mother's love for her child? Or is Allah's love less than that?

I think that a mother's love for her child is completely unique and that makes it very difficult to compare it with something outside the mother-child relationship.

 

[Audie]

Verses 6-20 would be a good place to start. Is that specific enough for you? I wouldn't want to strain you or anything. There might be all of 300 or 400 words for you to read.

Someone does not seem to have made himself
popular here.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is Allah's love greater than a mother's love for her child? Or is Allah's love less than that?

 

[danieldemol]

That's like a non-English speaking person calling Shakespeare's play "lousy". How can you be so sure it's lousy? What are the specific reason for your "whining" about it's prose [yeah, I just said it]?

I could be wrong, but it looked like @Audie was calling the Book of Mormon lousy prose.

 

[danieldemol]

Is Allah's love greater than a mother's love for her child? Or is Allah's love less than that?

My take is that the Quran's version of Allah is less loving than a normal mothers love.

Consider this;
'Suah 40:60. And your Lord says : “ Call on Me ; I Will answer your (Prayer) : But those who are Too arrogant to serve Me Will surely find themselves In Hell—in humiliation ! ”

Would a mother have the children who refused to serve her cast into fire?

 

[Cooky]

My take is that the Quran's version of Allah is less loving than a normal mothers love.

Consider this;
'Suah 40:60. And your Lord says : “ Call on Me ; I Will answer your (Prayer) : But those who are Too arrogant to serve Me Will surely find themselves In Hell—in humiliation ! ”

Would a mother have the children who refused to serve her cast into fire?

No. A loving mother would never talk like that to her child... Neither would a good father. Seriously, "serve me or die in hell".

...This is why Allah's love is below the level of man... I wouldn't want to live with a God like that, especially not for eternity. That would eternally suck.