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How Great is Allah's Love?

viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Hellbound Serpiente said:
I’ll just elaborate more on this before going back to my business. There is no such thing as “death” for spiritual-natured entities. Even many human beings, who are believers and genuinely believes in afterlife with utmost conviction, don’t consider “death” to be anything other than human self-constructed concept. I’ll just copy/paste a reply a Christian member here gave in another topic to show they also hold similar beliefs as the belief I am speaking about here:

“One of the few things we know about God -- even the most basic definition of God -- is that because of Him, death isn't real.

So, what happened then when God killed most all people in the Flood story (except for Noah's family)?

Well, here's what the texts say happened for those people --

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."
1 Peter 3 NIV

The people that 'died' in the Flood were all alive.

But more than only that -- they get Christ Himself coming to them to offer salvation, no less!

And we can see the generalization: it must be the same for anyone that died without hearing the gospel -- "For God does not show favoritism." (Romans 2)

So, you see, God is the one who cancels death.

Instead of 'killing', God...transports.”
Click to expand...

so, He transported Himself for our sins? or: He did not really die for our sins.
For, if He exists, then death is not real, correct?

why all that drama, then? He could have saved Himself the whole trip, cruxifixction, transport back and forth and back again. What was His use, really?

ciao

- viole
 
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viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Hellbound Serpiente said:
1. Do I have to? Where did I said that I hold a personal belief about who suffered the most? I already explicitly wrote --- “According to Biblical view.” i.e. If, hypothetically, what Bible is saying is true and if we go by what Bible said, THEN we can come to this conclusion.
Click to expand...
Ok, but that was not a big deal. The world is full of people who sacrificed themselves, possibly suffering the same or more, without the certainty of a limited duration. Things are worse when you do not know how long they last. But for Jesus, it was clear how long it will last, and that He would return after the weekend. At least according to the myth.


Hellbound Serpiente said:
2. And how do you know? How do you know that, for instance, Jesus and/or God is actually proactively ruling the universe rather than just creating an automatic, self-governing system and let it run automatically according to it’s own way by it’s own self-governing laws He Created for it? Who is to say that He isn’t allowing the world to rule itself and follow it’s own course for the greater good of freewill?
Click to expand...
What is that greater good of freewill, assuming there is such a thing? It seems to create more damage than advantages.

For instance, I am biologically equipped with natural conscious defenses that interfere with my “freewill”. For instance, even if I am hungry, my biology prevents me from eating a rotting cadaver. I feel disgust, which is surely something interfering with my will. Why not doing the same with sin?

And what about heaven? Will you guys have freewill up there too, after your transport?


Hellbound Serpiente said:
3. ACCORDING TO BIBLICAL VIEW [Again, don’t omit this key information next time], Jesus Himself positively refused to be the ruler of this world. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
Click to expand...

Point taken. i will rephrase. Everyone would sacrifice Himself knowing that after the weekend He will come back alive and kicking and then take off to Heaven to sit at the right of the Boss, for all eternity.


Hellbound Serpiente said:
1. What specifically in my post makes it “seem to indicate that the saying “Jesus died for us” should be replaced “Jesus suffered greatly for us”? I am not trying to start an argument here and/or trying to be some sort of a smart-***, I am writing in haste as I am working atm and may have made some mistakes which made you jump to that conclusion.
Click to expand...

I am referring to Christians who come to me saying “Jesus died for you”. To whom I would reply “staying dad for three days is not such a big sacrifice”. To which, the average Christian would reply: yes, but He suffered horribly for that.

And the conclusion is obvious: Christians should say, at best, Jesus suffered for you. For His death was a joke.
Hellbound Serpiente said:
concise.

3. What exactly do you mean by “less dramatic”? Are you saying prolonged torture is “less dramatic” than a relatively less agonizing, quick, clean death? If that’s what you mean, I disagree with you. I personally know people who “suffered greatly” but didn’t die, yet everyday they wish they had died a relatively quick, less agonizing death before going through their personal suffering.
Click to expand...

Well, saying He suffered for sin must be less dramatic. Otherwise Christians would not insist with His pseudo death all the time. And maybe they should adopt a whip as a logo, instead of a cross.

Ciao

- viole
 
M

Moses_UK

Member
Cooky said:
Can love exist if love is not expressed? Can a father abandon his child, and life a full life and die, having loved the child he abandoned his entire life?

...What good is love that is not expressed?

...If Allah loves us, he has to show us his love, or else that love is less than a mothers love. And if man's love is greater than Allah's, then Allah is unworthy of praise.
Click to expand...


You being able to see with 2 eyes, touch with both hands, taste with your tongue and breath the air is Allahs compassion and LOVE. Your not self sufficient and in need of everything from cradle to death. arrogance and ignorance is not an excuse to lie.
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
Moses_UK said:
You being able to see with 2 eyes, touch with both hands, taste with your tongue and breath the air is Allahs compassion and LOVE. Your not self sufficient and in need of everything from cradle to death. arrogance and ignorance is not an excuse to lie.
Click to expand...

That's not what love is. Love is not making someone, love is a feeling and an emotional bond. A mother's love is so strong, she will die for her child to live. Would Allah die for you if he could? If not, then his love is less than a mother's love.
 
M

Moses_UK

Member
Cooky said:
That's not what love is. Love is not making someone, love is a feeling and an emotional bond. A mother's love is so strong, she will die for her child to live. Would Allah die for you if he could? If not, then his love is less than a mother's love.
Click to expand...

For one to truly feel Allah's love, one must seek it and follow his commands. we have been given free will in this life to choose in obeying him or rejecting him.

If you reject him, your soul and body will only look for negatives and your ability to see the love diminishes. You have to open your heart to him and HIM alone without any partners.

Knowledge presides statement and action, so you need to know who he is.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
Moses_UK said:
For one to truly feel Allah's love, one must seek it and follow his commands. we have been given free will in this life to choose in obeying him or rejecting him.

If you reject him, your soul and body will only look for negatives and your ability to see the love diminishes. You have to open your heart to him and HIM alone without any partners.

Knowledge presides statement and action, so you need to know who he is.
Click to expand...

911
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
Moses_UK said:
For one to truly feel Allah's love, one must seek it and follow his commands. we have been given free will in this life to choose in obeying him or rejecting him.

If you reject him, your soul and body will only look for negatives and your ability to see the love diminishes. You have to open your heart to him and HIM alone without any partners.

Knowledge presides statement and action, so you need to know who he is.
Click to expand...
911
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Cooky said:
Is Allah's love greater than a mother's love for her child? Or is Allah's love less than that?
Click to expand...
Allah provided a child with father and mother and instilled love of the child to look after the child so Allah's love is greater than mother and father of a child. Right friend, please?

Regards
___________
[2:166]
وَ مِنَ النَّاسِ مَنۡ یَّتَّخِذُ مِنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ اَنۡدَادًا یُّحِبُّوۡنَہُمۡ کَحُبِّ اللّٰہِ ؕ وَ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡۤا اَشَدُّ حُبًّا لِّلّٰہِ ؕوَ لَوۡ یَرَی الَّذِیۡنَ ظَلَمُوۡۤا اِذۡ یَرَوۡنَ الۡعَذَابَ ۙ اَنَّ الۡقُوَّۃَ لِلّٰہِ جَمِیۡعًا ۙ وَّ اَنَّ اللّٰہَ شَدِیۡدُ الۡعَذَابِ ﴿۱۶۶﴾
And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship other than Allah, loving them as they should love Allah. But those who believe are stronger in their love for Allah and if those who transgress could now see the time when they shall see the punishment, they would realize that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishing.
 
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