How hard do you have to try to be an atheist?

[McBell]

I was just using that as an example of an animal creating his house... animals that create homes to live in, are not coming up with anything new, it's the same as it was for them thousands of years ago.

Yes, I realized that a spider does not invent a web, he spins a web following his instincts, but I was hoping nobody would point that out.

Congratulations on doing that!

Yes.
But the word create implies things that do not necessarily apply.
For a lot people there is a big difference between "creating" a home and "building" and "inventing" a home.
"creating" and "inventing" usually have implication that do not apply to non-humans.

 

[Terese]

I'm simply disinterested in atheism. In my opinion, I see it as incomplete, only accounting for the material.

 

[Spiderman]

Yes.
But the word create implies things that do not necessarily apply.
For a lot people there is a big difference between "creating" a home and "building" and "inventing" a home.
"creating" and "inventing" usually have implication that do not apply to non-humans.

Yes, invented was not the word to use, I accept correction

 

[Jumi]

Many Christian consider me an atheist or semi-atheist because I say that that God of the Bible doesn't exist. I don't mind being considered an atheist

You can find the real God in the Bible, there are some pretty good guidelines to do it, but the interpretations of religion are all a mess both against history and against the true God.

 

[David T]

Many Christian consider me an atheist or semi-atheist because I say that that God of the Bible doesn't exist. I don't mind being considered an atheist

So You agree with southern Baptists on.how the text is read but disagree.as.to.the validity?

 

[David T]

I think most of us have had periods in our life where we were atheists.

When you were an atheist, or if you are an atheist, do you ever have to try hard to be an atheist?

For instance, I would bite into a strawberry and observe the strawberry, taste the strawberry, and think to myself, maybe that strawberry was designed to be delightful to our taste buds.

It just seemed like as an atheist, there were constant signs popping up, that maybe there was some sort of intelligent design, destiny, and plan behind the existence of mankind.

I don't see chimpanzees or any other apes evolving... whatever the other apes invent, was the same thing they were inventing thousands of years ago.

It's like my baboon tarantula, invents all kinds of groovy webs, and intricate tunnels throughout the dirt, and it's his home.

That's an example of what animals invent. It is very primitive, and no more advanced then what they were creating thousands of years ago.

Humans on the other hand have Internet, space ships that fly to the moon, robots on Mars, satellites in outer space, airplanes, brain surgery, open heart surgery, kidney dialysis, pacemakers, x-rays, credit cards, MRIS, knee and hip replacement, cell phones, computers, printers, nuclear power, and nuclear weapons.

It made me think, perhaps scripture is right, that mankind was made in God's image, and maybe that is why we invent all these things that other Apes do not.

I don't see any evidence that other apes have evolved at all in thousands of years.

It was hard for me to be an atheist, when I can't find a single person on the planet who is half chimpanzee and half human. There really should be a chimpanzee out there that is more advanced than the rest at least, who invents something more new or something that resembles civilization.

These factors made it very difficult, and I had to try really hard to be an atheist.

It also made me wonder, how did this humble Jesus figure, who was born in a barn in complete poverty, and a humble Carpenter, start a movement that conquered the Roman Empire, and has Conquered 2.2 billion hearts, and lead to a book that is a best seller year after year?

How we date everything centers on his life, "before Christ or after Christ." And more books, shrines, structures, basilicas, and cathedrals are in his honor, more so than anyone else in history.

As an Atheist, it was hard for me to believe that evolved chimps wrote a fairytale, that influences and governs more than 2.2 billion Christians, and 1.8 billion Muslims, in a massively powerful way.

I always had to wonder, perhaps there is a supernatural force behind all of this? Perhaps this was the destiny of mankind?

Any thoughts?

Humans are fascinating Apes...

For instance, I would bite into a strawberry and observe the strawberry, taste the strawberry, and think to myself, maybe that strawberry was designed to be delightful to our taste buds.

Weird as hell but normal...and that opinion has zero to do with the bible.

 

[Jumi]

I think most of us have had periods in our life where we were atheists.

When you were an atheist, or if you are an atheist, do you ever have to try hard to be an atheist?

No it was not hard at all. It was just as natural as theism is to me now. Since I'm not into the religion business as a salesman, I don't think it's a big deal whether someone believes or not. God will show itself to us and without having a mind of a child the opportunity might be lost, that is if we believe for or against too much.

I don't see chimpanzees or any other apes evolving... whatever the other apes invent, was the same thing they were inventing thousands of years ago.

Yeah that's not what evolution is about. Humans were the same 100 000 years ago, if we could bring a baby back from those days they would be just like us and learn the same things as us. Apes can invent, but they're limited by not having a language with abstract information. If they could learn a language they could also pass such knowledge on. Although some people call knowledge and technology evolution, that's got nothing to do with the biological evolution.

I don't see any evidence that other apes have evolved at all in thousands of years.

To be honest, you don't know what that theory is about. An old man said about computers, there's nothing that's changed about them since the time he first saw them. He was even scared of them, but now he's able to browse the internet albeit not much of it...

It was hard for me to be an atheist, when I can't find a single person on the planet who is half chimpanzee and half human. There really should be a chimpanzee out there that is more advanced than the rest at least, who invents something more new or something that resembles civilization.

Having a genius chimp or half-human would be something other than evolution though.

I always had to wonder, perhaps there is a supernatural force behind all of this? Perhaps this was the destiny of mankind?

People have sought God and some have found it. But what they tell mankind is misunderstood by those who are not ready to enter the kingdom of God. That's why there is all this violence in name of God.

 

[Spiderman]

No it was not hard at all. It was just as natural as theism is to me now. Since I'm not into the religion business as a salesman, I don't think it's a big deal whether someone believes or not. God will show itself to us and without having a mind of a child the opportunity might be lost, that is if we believe for or against too much.


Yeah that's not what evolution is about. Humans were the same 100 000 years ago, if we could bring a baby back from those days they would be just like us and learn the same things as us. Apes can invent, but they're limited by not having a language with abstract information. If they could learn a language they could also pass such knowledge on. Although some people call knowledge and technology evolution, that's got nothing to do with the biological evolution.


To be honest, you don't know what that theory is about. An old man said about computers, there's nothing that's changed about them since the time he first saw them. He was even scared of them, but now he's able to browse the internet albeit not much of it...


Having a genius chimp or half-human would be something other than evolution though.


People have sought God and some have found it. But what they tell mankind is misunderstood by those who are not ready to enter the kingdom of God. That's why there is all this violence in name of God.

So if the theory of evolution has nothing to do with chimps becoming humans, and has nothing to do with creatures that were half chimp, half human at one time, how did we all evolve from a single cell organism?

There would have had to be a process of one species transforming into another, otherwise, such a theory simply is not possible!!

 

[Jumi]

So if the theory of evolution has nothing to do with chimps becoming humans, and has nothing to do with creatures that were half chimp, half human at one time, how did we all evolve from a single cell organism?

Evolution has other meaning in biology. Technological progress for example has nothing at all to do with it. Evolution is not moving toward progress, it's just change. There is not really "more evolved" between us and the chimps.

There would have had to be a process of one species transforming into another, otherwise, such a theory simply is not possible!!

Species don't transform into another and cease to exist as they were. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of not knowing what the theory of evolution is. Don't believe folks who say God can't exist if evolution is true and don't believe folks who say evolution can't be true if God exists. If you're interested in evolution you study the basics of it. If you're interested in God you have to understand the nearness of the kingdom of God.

 

[Father Heathen]

If you have to try, it's not really a belief.

 

[Spiderman]

Evolution has other meaning in biology. Technological progress for example has nothing at all to do with it. Evolution is not moving toward progress, it's just change. There is not really "more evolved" between us and the chimps.


Species don't transform into another and cease to exist as they were. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of not knowing what the theory of evolution is. Don't believe folks who say God can't exist if evolution is true and don't believe folks who say evolution can't be true if God exists. If you're interested in evolution you study the basics of it. If you're interested in God you have to understand the nearness of the kingdom of God.

if species didn't transform into another, then How could somebody hold that all creatures evolve from a single cell organism?

 

[Estro Felino]

You can find the real God in the Bible, there are some pretty good guidelines to do it, but the interpretations of religion are all a mess both against history and against the true God.

If I had to convert someone to Christianity, the first thing I would tell them is "Don't read the Bible, especially the OT"
Btw...to remain on topic, evolution is a great argument to show that the Biblical God is just fictitious

 

[Jumi]

if species didn't transform into another, then How could somebody hold that all creatures evolve from a single cell organism?

I really think you should first see what the theory of evolution says if you want to talk about it.

If you think bigger creatures coming out of one cell is strange, remember that we all were like this in before we could be recognized as human:

We're full of mysteries to discover.

I find it a bad thing that many people see God and evolution to be incapable of being real at the same time.

 

[Jumi]

If I had to convert someone to Christianity, the first thing I would tell them is "Don't read the Bible, especially the OT"

Reading it is certainly an experience if we take it all literally. In Christian summer camp I took my first real read of the OT, although of course I had been taught about it for years... Lots of kids came to fear God there.

Btw...to remain on topic, evolution is a great argument to show that the Biblical God is just fictitious

You could say the interpretation that most people seem to hold after reading some scriptures are fictitious. Jesus gives some pointers to finding God, but because people are looking for authorities or read it like a history book, they're not finding it. I see this fight against evolution as a red herring.

 

[tempogain]

yes, as an atheist, the question kept arising, why do humans exist? We must have evolved from chimps? The evidence seems to be lacking.

Without the sun, the world would not exist. How does the sun exist, and why is it in such in such a crucial place?

Why did a big bang lead to such a round earth? Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from?

Why did vegetables, animals, fruit, water, oil, herbs, and various other plants, minerals, and resources, that meet man's needs, come into existence as a result of a big bang, that happened randomly, that nobody really can prove took place one way or the other?

Why does God exist, with the perfect form, disposition etc. to do all these amazing things for us? Doesn't that question trouble you equally?

All of your questions above pale in comparison next to one--why is matter and the universe here at all?

I don't know (and there are a lot of things I don't know), but the evidence I don't see is that a caring God has done it all for our benefit.

Since I shook off my own Catholic indoctrination and made this and other associated realizations, a vague deism and a bit later atheism came easy. I really don't see what the other option is.

 

[Spiderman]

Why does God exist, with the perfect form, disposition etc. to do all these amazing things for us? Doesn't that question trouble you equally?

All of your questions above pale in comparison next to one--why is matter and the universe here at all?

I don't know (and there are a lot of things I don't know), but the evidence I don't see is that a caring God has done it all for our benefit.

Since I shook off my own Catholic indoctrination and made this and other associated realizations, a vague deism and a bit later atheism came easy. I really don't see what the other option is.

Or, there's a God, and he likes to hide himself, and he likes the world to be full of drama.

I'm convinced that God lets the devil run rampant, deceiving people, causing wars and all sorts of atrocities.

God is somewhat at fault and responsible for what the devil does.

So I do find God to be a bit cruel.

I'm convinced that God wants us to suffer and die.

I'm also convinced that he has favorites whom he gives his grace to, and others that he gives very little or no grace to.

I believe that God will reward people for their pain and suffering in this life, in the next one.

but no, I don't think God is very kind and charitable to this world. I think he has his favorites, and he's kind and charitable to them.

It sucks, and I hope God will change his mind about those things.

I believe in God, but I do not agree with him

 

[Spiderman]

I really think you should first see what the theory of evolution says if you want to talk about it.

If you think bigger creatures coming out of one cell is strange, remember that we all were like this in before we could be recognized as human:

We're full of mysteries to discover.

I find it a bad thing that many people see God and evolution to be incapable of being real at the same time.

If I where an atheist, I would have to convince myself that something like this took place:

I see no evidence of such transformation taking place within primates...

 

[tempogain]

I believe in God, but I do not agree with him

You mentioned a whole lot of beliefs there. Why would any of them be true, any more than we would have a sun or have evolved from apes?

All I'm saying is I don't see why it would be harder to be an atheist than a theist. In the end, you have to believe more things to be a theist

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If I where an atheist, I would have to convince myself that something like this took place:View attachment 21662 View attachment 21663


I see no evidence of such transformation taking place within primates...

Nah...just don't believe in Gods.
Theists do it all the time. Seems pretty natural for many of them.

Besides, my belief is my belief. How would I believe differently? Not like I avoid contemplation.

 

[Jumi]

If I where an atheist, I would have to convince myself that something like this took place:View attachment 21662 View attachment 21663

You don't need to convince yourself, I just think creationists are doing a service to atheism by not understanding what they are criticizing. When I stopped being an atheist, I didn't suddenly lose my understanding of the sciences. Indeed if I had to disbelieve evolution to believe in God, I would have stayed atheist, but of course I have no problem fitting the two together.

I see no evidence of such transformation taking place within primates...

It depends on what you see there. What do you think evolution theory says happens there?