sooda
Veteran Member
The Jews were destined to be a light unto the nations. Peter says they are a nation of priests. Exodus refers to them as a nation of priests. Who are you to argue?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How is God's prophesy of making Jews jealous by going to the gentiles played out
- Thread starter whirlingmerc
- Start date
The Jews were destined to be a light unto the nations. Peter says they are a nation of priests. Exodus refers to them as a nation of priests. Who are you to argue?
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
When were they a nation of priests.... the house of aaron were the priests
sooda
Veteran Member
Tools
Verse page
'>Isaiah 61:6
Verse Concepts
But you will be called the priests of the LORD; You will be spoken of as ministers of our God You will eat the wealth of nations, And in their riches you will boast.
Tools
Verse page
'>Isaiah 66:21
Verse Concepts
"I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.
Tools
Verse page
'>Revelation 1:6
Verse Concepts
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Tools
Verse page
'>Revelation 5:10
Verse Concepts
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
Tools
Verse page
'>Exodus 19:6
Verse Concepts
and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."
Tools
Verse page
'>1 Peter 2:9
Verse Concepts
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Tools
Verse page
'>Isaiah 61:6
Verse Concepts
But you will be called the priests of the LORD; You will be spoken of as ministers of our God You will eat the wealth of nations, And in their riches you will boast.
Tools
Verse page
'>Isaiah 66:21
Verse Concepts
"I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.
Tools
Verse page
'>Revelation 1:6
Verse Concepts
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Tools
Verse page
'>Revelation 5:10
Verse Concepts
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."
Tools
Verse page
'>Exodus 19:6
Verse Concepts
and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."
Tools
Verse page
'>1 Peter 2:9
Verse Concepts
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
The priesthood became limited to the house of Aaron however Psalm 110 makes the Messiah a priest forever of the order of Melchizedek
...and so the church in Christ are a kingdom of priests
and that was a future fulfillment of the promise 'you shall be a kingdom of priests'
Tumah
Veteran Member
No, that's not what it says.
Joseph did not figuratively die or figuratively overcome death. And he was literally the viceroy, not figuratively.
No it doesn't...
Non sequitur much?
You say that eventually Joseph's brothers eyes were opened. But you don't actually know when they began to regret their actions. For all you know, it may have been immediately after Joseph disappeared into the distance. Although again, this has nothing to do with the topic...
There is only one group of Jews, not two.
Because that's not what it's talking about. The verse is describing a punishment to the Jewish people for having turned to false gods. This happened often during the First Temple era. Then the punishment, described in the second half of the verse should relate to that. And it does, as I showed you a verse where the Assyrians are described as a people who are "not a people". Clearly, this verse from Deut is speaking about them.
sooda
Veteran Member
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Yes a priesthood figuratively of a different sort than the House of Aaron. And Jesus being of the tribe of Juhah and not being a Levite or house of Aaron would be a priest forever of a different sort
as promised
Psalm 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind,
“You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”
need I point out this is part of the prelude to the Passover psalms? following Psalm 109 which is about the Judas epoch - why might that be
as promised
Psalm 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind,
“You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”
need I point out this is part of the prelude to the Passover psalms? following Psalm 109 which is about the Judas epoch - why might that be
sooda
Veteran Member
My God, this is confusing....
Melchizedek - Wikipedia
The association or identification of Melchizedek with the Messiah predates Christianity, developing in Jewish messianism of the Second Temple period.
Melchizedek - Wikipedia
The association or identification of Melchizedek with the Messiah predates Christianity, developing in Jewish messianism of the Second Temple period.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
I think it's amazing that the prelude to the passover Psalms of 113 through 118 includes
the betrayal by Judas in Ps 109 and make like Melchizedek in Ps 110.
It's just like it was planned
sooda
Veteran Member
So you shifted gears.. I take it you have a complete grasp on Melchizedek.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Of some small sects. The only things quoted there are Qumran and 2 Enoch.
Thank you, even tho read the Curse multiple times, had miss that contexts; you are right the Christian & Muslims are there to bring the Jews to jealousy...
Because they don't understand the language, and have thus gone backwards as prophesied (Deuteronomy 31:24-29).
Like Isaiah 46:9 says 'EL is not like the Elohim, and there is none besides'... It points back to Deuteronomy 32:7-9, where El Elyon is stated as the father, and the Elohim (Archangels) are the sons of God.
In these verses in Deuteronomy 32 the word El is used H410 specifically as the Source; Yahavah Elohim (H430) is an archangel (H433), who is Lord of Creation.
When we examine the differences it is clear; El is beyond form used in the 2nd commandment, and then the Elohim have appeared multiple times.
El = Source (H410)
Eloh = God Breathed Being (H433)
Elohim = God Breathed Beings (H430)
Elim = Gods (H???)
When Yeshua Elohim came along (Isaiah 52:10, Psalms 98:3), they didn't understand it, and were put under the Curse (Deuteronomy 28).
Now as Zion Elohim (Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7) before the Tribulation; trying to offer correction, yet being ignored leads to this:
Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in my anger, that burns to the lowest Sheol,devours the earth with its increase, and sets the foundations of the mountains on fire.
A Christian should realize that Yeshua's father is El Elyon (God Most High - Luke 1:32, Luke 6:35), and Yeshua Elohim is Yahavah Elohim (Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2), with Zion Elohim being the Messiah.
In my opinion.
Last edited:
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Which is fine & dandy but those are still just interpretations that some apply to Jesus. However, there are also other interpretations, which is why I used the term "directly".It is prophesied that the Lord shall become our Salvation:
H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)
That Yehoshua is a symbolic branch of David, who will lead our people into the Promised Land:
H3091 (Yehoshua) + H1961 (To become) = Deuteronomy 31:23, Zechariah 3:3
H3091 (Yehoshua) + H7200 (To See) = Deuteronomy 3:28, Zechariah 3:1
In my opinion.
OTOH, "Jerome's Bible Commentary" uses the term "prefigures" in that even though references in the OT may refer to some other people, there's a pattern set for Jesus to be fit in, which is a common technique used frequently in the scriptures, both OT and NT, such as Jesus being the new Adam, the new Moses, the new Suffering Servant, etc.
Moses, David, Isaiah implied the Salvation (H3444) from God, shall be put into the flesh of David, with the name Yehoshua.
Do the word searches, research all the contextual applications, and you'll see this is what is stated, there is a vast array of scriptures detailing it all....
It is bad hermeneutics by many to look for a name, as it is far more advanced than that.
In my opinion.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I very much have spent gobs of time looking it up as I taught theology for many years.Moses, David, Isaiah implied the Salvation (H3444) from God, shall be put into the flesh of David, with the name Yehoshua.
Do the word searches, research all the contextual applications, and you'll see this is what is stated, there is a vast array of scriptures detailing it all....
It is bad hermeneutics by many to look for a name, as it is far more advanced than that.
In my opinion.
In real estate, the value of a house is more based on "location, location, location", and within theological circles it's more "interpretation, interpretation, interpretation". The problem all too often is that people tend to "see" what they want to see, whereas serious theological studies involve looking at the scriptures objectively even if some of the conclusions means going against what one believes.
Isaiah, for example, clearly is not at least directly about Jesus because events and some teachings simply do not match what happened with the coming of Jesus and subsequent events within the Church. However, some verses within Isaiah can be used, and have been used, to "prefigure" Jesus, which in no way takes Jesus away from what he became and what his impact was and is.
Even though both Judaism and Christianity are what we call "linear" with their approach to the history of faith ("on-going revelation"), we do see a cyclical pattern with what we might call "flashbacks" with parallels being drawn. Aquinas very much focused in on that as he well know that the literalistic approach simply does not work with the concept of Jesus being the Messiah as many of the messianic predictions, taken literally, have gone unfulfilled. Instead, it's basically the "essence" of both them and Jesus that basically fulfilled these predictions.
sooda
Veteran Member
I don't think Isaiah is about Jesus either. It seems to me that Christians have borrowed Isaiah to beef up claims about Jesus.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's very hard for many people to accept the imperfection of their own scriptures, and this applies to basically all religions as we've repeatedly seen. Heck, even if our own scriptures were somehow "perfect", our own minds aren't, which puts us right back on "first base".
BTW, that latter point isn't a reference to dating.
As an exegetical standard Strongs reference searches are objective, it is just the study needed to comprehend all the intertextuality in the Tanakh properly.
Moses saw the salvation of God separate the Red Sea (Exodus 14:13), and the Lord promised that he'd become our salvation (Exodus 15:2).
David was promised that the Lord would become our salvation if the children of Ammon were too strong (2 Samuel 10:11), and Jehoshaphat saw the Lord fight with them against the children of Ammon, becoming our salvation (2 Chronicles 20:17).
David then prophesied that the Lord would become our salvation (Psalms 118:14-21), in the form of the Chief Corner Stone that the builders reject (Isaiah 52:16).
Isaiah sees the Lord becoming our salvation (Isaiah 12:2), and expounds on it, creating the Bed of Adultery (Isaiah 28:9-21 - Rumor to Rumor).
Isaiah 52:10 - Isaiah 53:1 'arm' of the Lord acts as a header... Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrased David becoming the vessel of the Lord's salvation in Psalms 89:19-21.
According to the Tanakh most of the commentaries (Isaiah 29:9-14), and conclusions are from eisegesis (Isaiah 56:10-12); where only the Messiah can explain it properly (Jeremiah 23, Ezekiel 34).
Next prophetically is Armageddon, if it isn't a spiritual battle everyone could vastly help us with; it will be WW3 soon, and after God just keeps the Enlightened Saints who've already understood the Marvelous Work.
In my opinion.
sooda
Veteran Member
As an exegetical standard Strongs reference searches are objective, it is just the study needed to comprehend all the intertextuality in the Tanakh properly.
Moses saw the salvation of God separate the Red Sea (Exodus 14:13), and the Lord promised that he'd become our salvation (Exodus 15:2).
David was promised that the Lord would become our salvation if the children of Ammon were too strong (2 Samuel 10:11), and Jehoshaphat saw the Lord fight with them against the children of Ammon, becoming our salvation (2 Chronicles 20:17).
David then prophesied that the Lord would become our salvation (Psalms 118:14-21), in the form of the Chief Corner Stone that the builders reject (Isaiah 52:16).
Isaiah sees the Lord becoming our salvation (Isaiah 12:2), and expounds on it, creating the Bed of Adultery (Isaiah 28:9-21 - Rumor to Rumor).
Isaiah 52:10 - Isaiah 53:1 'arm' of the Lord acts as a header... Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrased David becoming the vessel of the Lord's salvation in Psalms 89:19-21.
According to the Tanakh most of the commentaries (Isaiah 29:9-14), and conclusions are from eisegesis (Isaiah 56:10-12); where only the Messiah can explain it properly (Jeremiah 23, Ezekiel 34).
Next prophetically is Armageddon, if it isn't a spiritual battle everyone could vastly help us with; it will be WW3 soon, and after God just keeps the Enlightened Saints who've already understood the Marvelous Work.
In my opinion.
Isaiah's bed of adultery is just Israel's idolatry.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And that's fine as an opinion, but...In my opinion.
Also, just a reminder that there are numerous messiahs mentioned in the Tanakh, plus you might want to reread the last chapter in Isaiah carefully.