How is 'not accepting the act' a true acceptance of homosexuality?

[Vinayaka]

Until you have other people denying their ability to practice religion because of their sexual orientation.

That's discrimination.

But, but ... that must mean the Laws of God, or God's word, or the words of God's infallible representatives are discriminatory. How could this possibly be? An infallible loving God or prophet couldn't possibly discriminate. (If you detect sarcasm, you readit right.)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Until you have other people denying their ability to practice religion because of their sexual orientation.

That's discrimination.

That is not logical, as even man made institutions have set laws, that must be obeyed to be part of that institution.

All Faiths have been given Laws by God. In accepting the Faith, you accept the Laws. Some of these do not change and will not change.

Faith is not a plaything for the ignorant, it is a lifestyle given by God and to be followed fully, a total submission to Gods advice and Laws. It is a spiritual journey and not an earthly desire.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But, but ... that must mean the Laws of God, or God's word, or the words of God's infallible representatives are discriminatory. How could this possibly be? An infallible loving God or prophet couldn't possibly discriminate. (If you detect sarcasm, you readit right.)

One law from God is not to murder, would it be discrimination if we decided to implement that as Law?

With Faith it is known that God is wiser then any man. Faith is submission to the higher wisdom, knowing that there is wisdom in all that has been given for us to follow.

Man has always thought they know better, man has made of Gods Faiths and Gods laws their own self fulfilling path.

Regards Tony

 

[LuisDantas]

That is not logical, as even man made institutions have set laws, that must be obeyed to be part of that institution.

All Faiths have been given Laws by God. In accepting the Faith, you accept the Laws. Some of these do not change and will not change.

Faith is not a plaything for the ignorant, it is a lifestyle given by God and to be followed fully, a total submission to Gods advice and Laws. It is a spiritual journey and not an earthly desire.

Regards Tony

I think you are taking a particularly rigid view of monotheism and extrapolating it towards, as you call it, "all faiths".

I am not sure that there is a point to that, nor that there is a good reason why others should accept your extrapolation.

 

[suncowiam]

That is not logical, as even man made institutions have set laws, that must be obeyed to be part of that institution.

All Faiths have been given Laws by God. In accepting the Faith, you accept the Laws. Some of these do not change and will not change.

Faith is not a plaything for the ignorant, it is a lifestyle given by God and to be followed fully, a total submission to Gods advice and Laws. It is a spiritual journey and not an earthly desire.

Regards Tony

Who created those laws? Are you so sure it was God?

 

[Vinayaka]

One law from God is not to murder, would it be discrimination if we decided to implement that as Law?

This thread is about fundamentalist peoples opposition to homosexuality, not to murder. So in your view homosexual people acting on their love is the same as murder. Thanks for confirming this for the new readers. I knew your view all along.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think you are taking a particularly rigid view of monotheism and extrapolating it towards, as you call it, "all faiths".

I am not sure that there is a point to that, nor that there is a good reason why others should accept your extrapolation.

With this subject, there is Faith in Gods Laws, or neglect of them. I can not change the Law, be I rigid or flexible, it is already set by the Message given.

From the Abrahamic Line as an example, it is the breaking of Gods Covenant and Laws that has see the necessity of another Messenger from God. This is recorded in the Bible. It is why Muhammad came, it is why the Bab and Baha'u'llah have come.

In the Christian Faith, no one has been given the right to change the Biblical Guidance on this subject. That the leaders see a need to bow to popular thought over implementing what is in the Bible, does not change what the Bible says. It is the relaxing of the laws that has brought about a mindset that it is ok for us to make this choice.

It must be understood as a person of Faith, these are the laws. If you want to practice the Faith, you have to consider the practice of all the laws. If you do or don not choose this path, you will always have people that will have empathy for your lot in life.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who created those laws? Are you so sure it was God?

With this Law, yes 100% sure it was God, as it is carried through from the Bible on to the Koran and then to the Baha'i Laws.

Also no Sex before Marriage has also carried through. Thus we will always be challenged by Gods Laws.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So in your view homosexual people acting on their love is the same as murder. Thanks for confirming this for the new readers. I knew your view all along.

No it is not the same and it is ludicrous to say that it is, or to even impute that was the intent.

The point is that the Laws are written and can not be changed by man. If you wish to change the law on Homosexuality, then it would be hypocritical to say you can not change any other Law also recorded in the same Book. I just took another obvious one as the example.

Chastity could be another, after all, that has been thrown out the window as well.

I hope you are well and happy - Regards Tony

 

[suncowiam]

With this Law, yes 100% sure it was God, as it is carried through from the Bible on to the Koran and then to the Baha'i Laws.

Also no Sex before Marriage has also carried through. Thus we will always be challenged by Gods Laws.

Regards Tony

Yikes, scary for anyone to know the word of God like you do with 100% confidence.

No doubt what so ever?

So what does God say should be done of homosexuals? Atheists? Or even people that worship different Gods?

 

[Vinayaka]

Yikes, scary for anyone to know the word of God like you do with 100% confidence.

No doubt what so ever?

Basically the definition of fundamentalism.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yikes, scary for anyone to know the word of God like you do with 100% confidence.

No doubt what so ever?

So what does God say should be done of homosexuals? Atheists? Or even people that worship different Gods?

Yes no doubt about God's Laws for this day. The Word given of God is a different story, it meanings far transend our limited mind, each and all of us must look at this and decide for ourselves.

All people have to find our unity under the God given Laws for this day.

The bible and all the Holy Books tell us of this day and that we will face these challenges.

The virtues are our common foundation and no matter what we beleive, we can find a balance in implementing virtues and justice in our lives, this will be a Lesser Peace.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Basically the definition of fundamentalism.

All human learning and life is based on Fundamental teachings, It is not a bad thing, unless one uses it that way by distorting a Law and using the distortion as the Fundamental belief.

Fundamental "forming a necessary base or core; of central importance"

God does have Fundamental Laws and a Covenant with all Humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes no doubt about God's Laws for this day. The Word given of God is a different story, it meanings far transend our limited mind, each and all of us must look at this and decide for ourselves.

All people have to find our unity under the God given Laws for this day.

The bible and all the Holy Books tell us of this day and that we will face these challenges.

The virtues are our common foundation and no matter what we beleive, we can find a balance in implementing virtues and justice in our lives, this will be a Lesser Peace.

Regards Tony

You didn't answer his questions.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There are many inclinations to wrongful behavior that are understood that people have, but the acting out that behavior is not accepted.

So then, you do at least appear to be implying that acting on a homosexual inclination is a "wrongful behaviour," is that correct? Further, it seems you imply that not accepting that acting out is justifiable if you happen to believe it is wrong, is that correct?

But what does it mean to say that a behaviour is "wrong?" Is eating a cheeseburger in front of a Jew wrong? How about a pulled pork sandwich? Is surreptitiously trying to accomplish a little extra work on the Sabbath, or doing your taxes to stay ahead of your busy work-week, really a wrong behaviour? The Bible certainly says so. Would you find those acceptable, or would you feel the need not to accept them, too?

You see, I have never, in my entire life, encountered one single person who could articulate just who was hurt, or how, when I made love to my partner. But perhaps no actual harm to anyone, anywhere is necessary to make an action "wrong." Maybe it just needs to offend God, yes?

But then, how would you know? Do you have a channel that tells you what God feels? (The ancient writers of the Bible clearly thought they did, as -- by the way -- did Mohammed and Joseph Smith, but you can see why I might find that a bit suspicious, given the conflicts.) And what's more, there are entire churches, Christian ones, that have carefully considered the topic and have come to the conclusion that perhaps it is not a "wrongful behaviour." The United Church of Canada (one of our largest), and the Anglican Church of Canada (along with some Episcopal American churches, Liberal and Reformed Jewish communities, and many others). They seem to have decided, along with much of the world, that "wrong" really means doing something that hurts somebody. Almost nobody murders their adolescent son for masturbating anymore, for example. (Especially those who can remember back to their own adolescence.)

 

[Buddha Dharma]

You have to clarify in what way homosexual desires are different from heterosexual desires or the desire to eat pork or the desire to eat beef or the desire to drink beer.

For one, emotional fulfillment is essential to most people's happiness. They aren't asexual. Funny, that's the point I've seen not touched at all in responses to my OP.

There is no reasonably dividing homosexuals from seeking said fulfillment once acknowledged. I'm not really surprised.

Some people take vows of celibacy (forbids heterosexual actions).

Doesn't mean it is reasonable to do. Besides, that wouldn't show anything about rather homosexuality is sinful, or shouldn't be acted on.

Perhaps you aren't simply interested in a discussion about tolerance. Do you crave capitulation to the 'truth' (which you have already arrived at).

Think whatever you want. I'm not going to be cross-examined. Let's continue, shall we?

I can understand that those that do not believe in an eternal life, in God and His Messengers, could see this as a problem.

Ah, so now Buddhists and Hindus don't believe in 'God's messengers'...

Yes, that would certainly be an easy way to discount what we might have to say on the subject, or outright reject it.

It is up to the person if they want to follow the laws of God in the Faith they have chosen. They can not expect the Faith to change to cater for their needs.

Baha'is believe God has changed his religion multiple times.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is believe God has changed his religion multiple times.

It has been previously explained about the Twofold Station of the Messengers of God.

The Unchangeable and Changeable aspects. Thus It is a deception to quote only one aspect as the Bahai view.

If you do want an answer to the question you asked in your OP, then this is what was provided from a Baha'i viewpoint.

You do not have to agree, but we supplied and honest answer.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Ah, so now Buddhists and Hindus don't believe in 'God's messengers'...

I actually don't believe in God's messengers at all. I believe in God, but every single so called messenger has been human. They are either self-declared or put on that pedestal by their duped followers. In the dharmic paradigm, its far more common just to believe in wise men. That's how I see Buddha ... as a wise man. Lots of people are wise, in lots of fields. Religion can be one of them. But to put anyone on some ridiculous pedestal as the one and only true prophet/avatar/messenger just seems silly to me. For one, with all that power inside one person, surely he/she would just explode to pieces from it, lol.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ah, so now Buddhists and Hindus don't believe in 'God's messengers'...

Yes, that would certainly be an easy way to discount what we might have to say on the subject, or outright reject it.

I can only offer back what both One Hindu and One Buddhist has told me they beleive, that post here on RF.

My position is that Krishna and the Buddha are from God, they are Messengers, they are the Spirit which was Christ as well.

Regards Tony

 

[shunyadragon]

Baha'is believe God has changed his religion multiple times.

False, Baha'is believe humans change the religions to suite themselves and mold the 'Source' some call God(s) in their own cultural image.