How is Sikhism different from Hinduism

[ZoyaHayat]

Dear Zoya,

For a devotee , the FORM of God itself is everything; there is no other desire and no other divinity.

By the way .......still contradicting me?.........See in your own Avatar- who is in front of Mirabai?...........Is it Lord Krishna or a divine light?

I think I GOT U THIS TIME!!!.....lol

Regards,...........

Satsangi you have'nt got me really ...

Yes the Idol of Krishna Ji is there infront of her BUT it is the Divine Light she is attracted too...the formless of 'him'...

And yes i still contradict you ...

Below are a few links explaining her Divine Love for Krishna Ji-not his Idol:

http://www.dlshq.org/saints/mirabai.htm

http://hinduism.about.com/od/gurussaints/p/mirabai.htm

http://ourdharma.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AC%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%88-mirabai-%E2%80%93-the-princess-who-married-krishna/

http://www.dollsofindia.com/mirabai.htm

I hope these might help?

xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Yes the Idol of Krishna Ji is there infront of her BUT it is the Divine Light she is attracted too...the formless of 'him'...
Below are a few links explaining her Divine Love for Krishna Ji-not his Idol:

In Advaita Vedanta, Brahman is without attributes and impersonal. It can be best described as infinite Being, infinite Consciousness, and infinite Bliss.Since it is beyond human comprehension, it is without any attributes, for assigning attributes to it would be distorting the true nature of Brahman. Advaitins believe in the existence of both Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman, however they consider Nirguna Brahman to be the Absolute Truth seen without the influence of mind.

When man tries to know the attributeless Brahman with his mind, under the influence of an illusionary power of Brahman called Maya, Brahman becomes God (Ishvara). Personal God(i.e Isvara here) is the reflection of the Brahman in the environment of illusion caused by mind (Maya). Just like reflection of moon, in a pool of water.

This Brahman, is not limited by any mental conception or duality, whether personal or impersonal, existent or nonexistent, formless or manifested in form, timeless or extended in time, spaceless or extended in space. It is simultaneously all of these but is bound by none of them. It is at once the universe, each individual being and thing in the universe, and the Transcendent beyond the universe.



A follower of Advaita Vedanta would have no problems accept the Islamic concept of Allah or the Buddhist Void.Guru Nanak's Sikhism is a movement based on Advaita Vedanta.

The Supreme as formless in absolute terms version applies to majority of Shaivite Schools(which worship Shiva).

But Vaishnava Schools differs.They are not completely non-dualistic.Some of them are completely dualistic like the orthodox abrahamic religions.The concept of avatar like Krishna is central to Vaishnavism.

In Visishtadvaita(Qualified non-duality) and Dvaita (which are vaishnava philosophies), , Ishvara (the Supreme Controller) has infinite attributes and the source of the impersonal Brahman.All Vaishnava schools are panentheistic and perceive the Advaita concept of identification of Atman with the impersonal Brahman as an intermediate step of self-realization, but not Mukti, or final liberation of complete God-realization through Bhakti Yoga.

Their goal is ParaBrahman and It is believed that all Vaishnava and other schools attribute Personhood(form) to this concept.

Hope,this might be helpful for you.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

In Advaita Vedanta, Brahman is without attributes and impersonal. It can be best described as infinite Being, infinite Consciousness, and infinite Bliss.Since it is beyond human comprehension, it is without any attributes, for assigning attributes to it would be distorting the true nature of Brahman. Advaitins believe in the existence of both Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman, however they consider Nirguna Brahman to be the Absolute Truth seen without the influence of mind.

When man tries to know the attributeless Brahman with his mind, under the influence of an illusionary power of Brahman called Maya, Brahman becomes God (Ishvara). Personal God(i.e Isvara here) is the reflection of the Brahman in the environment of illusion caused by mind (Maya). Just like reflection of moon, in a pool of water.

This Brahman, is not limited by any mental conception or duality, whether personal or impersonal, existent or nonexistent, formless or manifested in form, timeless or extended in time, spaceless or extended in space. It is simultaneously all of these but is bound by none of them. It is at once the universe, each individual being and thing in the universe, and the Transcendent beyond the universe.



A follower of Advaita Vedanta would have no problems accept the Islamic concept of Allah or the Buddhist Void.Guru Nanak's Sikhism is a movement based on Advaita Vedanta.

The Supreme as formless in absolute terms version applies to majority of Shaivite Schools(which worship Shiva).

But Vaishnava Schools differs.They are not completely non-dualistic.Some of them are completely dualistic like the orthodox abrahamic religions.The concept of avatar like Krishna is central to Vaishnavism.

In Visishtadvaita(Qualified non-duality) and Dvaita (which are vaishnava philosophies), , Ishvara (the Supreme Controller) has infinite attributes and the source of the impersonal Brahman.All Vaishnava schools are panentheistic and perceive the Advaita concept of identification of Atman with the impersonal Brahman as an intermediate step of self-realization, but not Mukti, or final liberation of complete God-realization through Bhakti Yoga.

Their goal is ParaBrahman and It is believed that all Vaishnava and other schools attribute Personhood(form) to this concept.

Hope,this might be helpful for you.

Hiya Anti-religion ...

I agree with you ...

mwuah xxx

 

[zenzero]

Friend Satsangi

From friend A-R's post above:

When man tries to know the attributeless Brahman with his mind, under the influence of an illusionary power of Brahman called Maya, Brahman becomes God (Ishvara). Personal God(i.e Isvara here) is the reflection of the Brahman in the environment of illusion caused by mind (Maya). Just like reflection of moon, in a pool of water.

The same reason had suggested you to first take the route you are comfortable with [sadhana on your istadevta]and only then can we discuss the VOID.

Love & rgds

 

[Satsangi]

Satsangi you have'nt got me really ...

Yes the Idol of Krishna Ji is there infront of her BUT it is the Divine Light she is attracted too...the formless of 'him'...

And yes i still contradict you ...

Below are a few links explaining her Divine Love for Krishna Ji-not his Idol:

Mira Bai

Mira Bai - Krishna Devotee, Minstrel & Saint

मीराबाई (Mirabai) – the princess who married Krishna! « SanAtana Dharma

Mirabai and Radha : The twin souls of Krishna

I hope these might help?

xxx

Thank u Zoya,

The links above actually make my point rather than yours. Any Devotee does not see idol as metal or mud; they see it as having the Supreme Soul in it. Lord Krishna came Himself to hold Mirabai's hand while she was going to drown- "divine light" did not. A "formless" cannot be described with so many qualities that Mirabai has attributed to Lord Krishna in her Bhajans. She saw the FORM of Krishna as DIVINE.

Let me give u example of another Saint Surdaas. He was blind from birth; yet he described the beautiful form of Lord Krishna. Yes, he always saw Krishna as the God or the Supreme, BUT Supreme in a form.

Another Saint Tulsidas who also wrote the Ramayana; He was only attached to the form of Lord Rama and not to any other form (not even Lord Krishna).

Another example about Hanumanji who is the great devotee of Lord Rama. He was given a boon of Chiranjeevi (no death) by Lord Rama. When he met Lord Krishna later on, he knew there is no difference between Lord Krishna and Lord Rama; but still he requests Lord Krishna to give him the darshan in the form of Lord Rama only and Shri Krishna does that.

Further, I refer u to my previous post #35 in this thread for a Bhakti path perspective e.g Mirabai and many others.....

Any contradictions now from u.....?.......lol.

By the way, u always agree with Anti-religion and never agree with me; u always contradict me...........:sad4:

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Thank u Zoya,

The links above actually make my point rather than yours. Any Devotee does not see idol as metal or mud; they see it as having the Supreme Soul in it. Lord Krishna came Himself to hold Mirabai's hand while she was going to drown- "divine light" did not. A "formless" cannot be described with so many qualities that Mirabai has attributed to Lord Krishna in her Bhajans. She saw the FORM of Krishna as DIVINE.

Let me give u example of another Saint Surdaas. He was blind from birth; yet he described the beautiful form of Lord Krishna. Yes, he always saw Krishna as the God or the Supreme, BUT Supreme in a form.

Another Saint Tulsidas who also wrote the Ramayana; He was only attached to the form of Lord Rama and not to any other form (not even Lord Krishna).

Another example about Hanumanji who is the great devotee of Lord Rama. He was given a boon of Chiranjeevi (no death) by Lord Rama. When he met Lord Krishna later on, he knew there is no difference between Lord Krishna and Lord Rama; but still he requests Lord Krishna to give him the darshan in the form of Lord Rama only and Shri Krishna does that.

Further, I refer u to my previous post #35 in this thread for a Bhakti path perspective e.g Mirabai and many others.....

Any contradictions now from u.....?.......lol.

By the way, u always agree with Anti-religion and never agree with me; u always contradict me...........:sad4:

Regards,

Satsangi i still contradict you ...

Actually the links are in favour of me and my statement...i guess it's how one's reads ...

I guess you like to purposefully disagree with me ...

Lolzzzzz no i am not always agreeing with Anti-religion either ...

I am sorry if you feel like that ...

xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Lolzzzzz no i am not always agreeing with Anti-religion either ...
xxx

Can you tell me what you disagree (on this thread)?

BTW.Are you a Dualist (this is the name given for "monotheism" in dharmic DIR.)?

It is understandable there is tussle between Vaishnavism and Islam:sw:.Especially,as Islam generally creates stereotypes against Idolatry.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Can you tell me what you disagree (on this thread)?

BTW.Are you a Dualist (this is the name given for "monotheism" in dharmic DIR.)?

It is understandable there is tussle between Vaishnavism and Islam:sw:.Especially,as Islam generally creates stereotypes against Idolatry.

Not really Anti-religion :S...

Me and tussles? no no no no ...

Vaishnavism and Islam go hand-in-hand right Satsangi? xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Me and tussles? no no no no ...

I was not inferring you.I was telling about Islam and Viashnavaism...Nice combination.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I was not inferring you.I was telling about Islam and Viashnavaism...Nice combination.

Indeed it is heheheheheehh xxx

 

[Satsangi]

Satsangi i still contradict you ...

Actually the links are in favour of me and my statement...i guess it's how one's reads ...

I guess you like to purposefully disagree with me ...

Lolzzzzz no i am not always agreeing with Anti-religion either ...

I am sorry if you feel like that ...

xxx

Hi Zoya,

There would be no discussion if we agreed! ....lol. Yes, u can "contradict me"..... thats great....I like it....

Thanks to Anti- religion we are agreeing that "Islam and Vaishnavism go hand in hand and it is a great combination!!!!"........lol.....

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Hi Zoya,

There would be no discussion if we agreed! ....lol. Yes, u can "contradict me"..... thats great....I like it....

Thanks to Anti- religion we are agreeing that "Islam and Vaishnavism go hand in hand and it is a great combination!!!!"........lol.....

Regards,

Lol you amaze me Satsangi xxx

 

[Satsangi]

Lol you amaze me Satsangi xxx

You actually are already combining both Vaishnavism and Sufism(?Islam)- You are a Sufi who loves Mirabai and Lord Krishna........! You ARE a WONDER........!!:yes:

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

You actually are already combining both Vaishnavism and Sufism(?Islam)- You are a Sufi who loves Mirabai and Lord Krishna........! You ARE a WONDER........!!:yes:

Regards,

Thank you Satsangi ...

I am all...

I am a Spiritualist...

A Mystic...

An Ascestic...

A Sufi...

And i love all the religions...

I am limitless ...

xxx

 

[Satsangi]

Thank you Satsangi ...

I am all...

I am a Spiritualist...

A Mystic...

An Ascestic...

A Sufi...

And i love all the religions...

I am limitless ...

xxx

Hi Zoya,

Another wonder...... You did not contradict me this time!! .... lol..

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Hi Zoya,

Another wonder...... You did not contradict me this time!! .... lol..

Regards,

**shy**...

xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Gursikh this is it...

Like the Guru Granth Sahib talks of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji being born physically-it is correct God is formless,unborn etc then how can God be born in the form of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji as a human(God does'nt need a body,form or shape)?...

The Guru is God, and God is the Guru, O Nanak; there is no difference between the two, O Siblings of Destiny:

 

[Satsangi]

Gursikh this is it...

Like the Guru Granth Sahib talks of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji being born physically-it is correct God is formless,unborn etc then how can God be born in the form of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji as a human(God does'nt need a body,form or shape)?...

I personally have always believed from childhood that both Krishna Ji and Raam Ji are both Prophets/Messengers of the Lord...they rose to such lofty stands that they automatically became 'like God' to many people...i guess that is where people differ...and the whole Avatar issue arises...

To me Krishna Ji and Raam Ji are the same as Hazrath Jesus(AS),Hazrath Muhammad(SAW) etc...all were born human but had the Divine Light present in them...which did make them Divine in a way but not God for sure ...

xxx

The below is my opinion and reading of Hindu Scriptures. I do not say that all all religions are "equal" and neither do I try to make them sound the same, but I say that all religions are "unique".

Srimad Bhagvatam details the inherent qualities manifested by a BhramNishtha Saint and it also details the inherent qualities ever manifested by an Avathar of God in human form under two circumstances- when the Avathar is in the role of a King and when the Avathar of God is in the role of a Rishi. Hence, the Avathar of God is not the same as "a highly spiritually advanced Saint" from the Hindu perspective. An Avathar of God IS GOD HIMSELF. Although, Hinduism does emphasize that a BhramNishtha Saint is a form of God too, as God is present in them in full glory. Hinduism also embraces the ideas of Sikhism as demonstrated by the Advaita or the Upanishad conecpt of Brahman.

Srimad Bhagvatam also emphasize that once you recognize the BhramNishtha Saint or an Avathar, then surrender yourself to them; that is the easiest way to liberation.

Dear Zoya: You say that Sufism is different from Islam, but you are stuck to the idea that "God has to be formless" which is an Islamic concept. A Mystic is not stuck to a pre-concept. Hinduism also has a similar "formless" (or a "divine form") concept, but it DOES ACCEPT that God can and does take a form- an Avathar. Contradict me....please....... lol........

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

The below is my opinion and reading of Hindu Scriptures. I do not say that all all religions are "equal" and neither do I try to make them sound the same, but I say that all religions are "unique".

Srimad Bhagvatam details the inherent qualities manifested by a BhramNishtha Saint and it also details the inherent qualities ever manifested by an Avathar of God in human form under two circumstances- when the Avathar is in the role of a King and when the Avathar of God is in the role of a Rishi. Hence, the Avathar of God is not the same as "a highly spiritually advanced Saint" from the Hindu perspective. An Avathar of God IS GOD HIMSELF. Although, Hinduism does emphasize that a BhramNishtha Saint is a form of God too, as God is present in them in full glory. Hinduism also embraces the ideas of Sikhism as demonstrated by the Advaita or the Upanishad conecpt of Brahman.

Srimad Bhagvatam also emphasize that once you recognize the BhramNishtha Saint or an Avathar, then surrender yourself to them; that is the easiest way to liberation.

Dear Zoya: You say that Sufism is different from Islam, but you are stuck to the idea that "God has to be formless" which is an Islamic concept. A Mystic is not stuck to a pre-concept. Hinduism also has a similar "formless" (or a "divine form") concept, but it DOES ACCEPT that God can and does take a form- an Avathar. Contradict me....please....... lol........

Regards,

No i will not contradict you Satsangi ...

You are saying all that above purposefully-so you can debate me Lol...

I dont like debating or arguing-it is just not right...

xxx

 

[Satsangi]

No i will not contradict you Satsangi ...

You are saying all that above purposefully-so you can debate me Lol...

I dont like debating or arguing-it is just not right...

xxx

Sorry if u feel that way, but I was just presenting a Hindu perspective which has not been presented in this thread with Scripture support.

Regards,