How is Sikhism different from Hinduism

[Satsangi]

The answer as to why Ved Vyasji composed the Bhagvatam is in Bhagvatam itself. After compiling the Vedas, still he had a feeling of ?"emptiness" or "not satisfied". Sage Narada asked him to compose a Scripture with divine leelas of Pragat God's Avatar in its center. After composing the leelas of Lord Krishna he gets that feeling of "fullness" spiritually (Lord Krishna was present on earth that time). Meaning, knowing Pragat God Himself in a human form is the end of all Sadhanas.

The Bhagvatam is told as if it is being recited by Shukdevji (son of Ved Vyasji) to King Parik**** (the Pandava King) as he faced the curse of a Sage that he will die in 7 days and the King wanted Moksha before the death. He called a gathering of Rishis and in that Shukdevji was the one who guareenteed the liberation in 7 days. Shukdevji was an Atma Nistha saint who had attained oneness with the Brahman. He himself said that although having "Samyak AtmaNIshtha", his chitta was magnetized by the divine leelas and divine form of Lord Krishna (who was on earth that time). The whole meaning is that the Pragat God and Pragat Saint can liberate you with least effort on your part AND listening to the Pragat God's leelas from a BrahmNishtha Guru in itself is liberating. But it requires a BrahmaNishtha Guru like Shukdevji to liberate you in 7 days. The gnostic knowledge of Shashtras can only be obtained from such a BrahmNishtha Guru or God Himself and THAT is the cause of liberation.

In short, in my opinion, Hinduism does accept Sikhism (and Islam) concept of God. But, there is another angle to God in Hinduism too. For example in Vishishtadvaita school, as mentioned by Anti-religion, after having attained oneness with the BrahmJyoti, it is necessary to continue worshipping the source of that BrahmJyoti- the DIVINE FORM of God.

Regards,

 

[ZoyaHayat]

The answer as to why Ved Vyasji composed the Bhagvatam is in Bhagvatam itself. After compiling the Vedas, still he had a feeling of ?"emptiness" or "not satisfied". Sage Narada asked him to compose a Scripture with divine leelas of Pragat God's Avatar in its center. After composing the leelas of Lord Krishna he gets that feeling of "fullness" spiritually (Lord Krishna was present on earth that time). Meaning, knowing Pragat God Himself in a human form is the end of all Sadhanas.

The Bhagvatam is told as if it is being recited by Shukdevji (son of Ved Vyasji) to King Parik**** (the Pandava King) as he faced the curse of a Sage that he will die in 7 days and the King wanted Moksha before the death. He called a gathering of Rishis and in that Shukdevji was the one who guareenteed the liberation in 7 days. Shukdevji was an Atma Nistha saint who had attained oneness with the Brahman. He himself said that although having "Samyak AtmaNIshtha", his chitta was magnetized by the divine leelas and divine form of Lord Krishna (who was on earth that time). The whole meaning is that the Pragat God and Pragat Saint can liberate you with least effort on your part AND listening to the Pragat God's leelas from a BrahmNishtha Guru in itself is liberating. But it requires a BrahmaNishtha Guru like Shukdevji to liberate you in 7 days. The gnostic knowledge of Shashtras can only be obtained from such a BrahmNishtha Guru or God Himself and THAT is the cause of liberation.

In short, in my opinion, Hinduism does accept Sikhism (and Islam) concept of God. But, there is another angle to God in Hinduism too. For example in Vishishtadvaita school, as mentioned by Anti-religion, after having attained oneness with the BrahmJyoti, it is necessary to continue worshipping the source of that BrahmJyoti- the DIVINE FORM of God.

Regards,

xxx

 

[Shishya]

I believe Sikhs are monotheistic, while Hindus can be monotheist, pantheist, monist, or soft polytheists. Thats the fundamental difference. Also a key distinctive feature of Sikhism is a non-anthropomorphic concept of God whereas in Hinduism there is the perception of a divine being or beings in human form, or the recognition of human qualities in these beings.

sikhism is MONIST not monotheist.

 

[Shishya]

I see the core theology of Hinduism (the concept of Brahman being transcendent and immanent and the intimate source of all that is) to be very similar to key attributes of Waheguru.
I believe that the difference is what happens next. Often in the attempt to know the unknowable the first thing that is done is the attempt to limit the limitless. By ascribing attributes to something begins the process to limit it. There in is often found the desire to control. This control can be in say what "God" (the Divine) is or is not or who "God's" followers are or are not. This is a common practice, but not an enlighten one.

No it isnt. Brahman is Transcendant and Impersonal.

Waheguru is Sufi idea of allah in a monistic fashion.

 

[Shishya]

Gursikh this is it...

Like the Guru Granth Sahib talks of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji being born physically-it is correct God is formless,unborn etc then how can God be born in the form of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji as a human(God does'nt need a body,form or shape)?...

I personally have always believed from childhood that both Krishna Ji and Raam Ji are both Prophets/Messengers of the Lord...they rose to such lofty stands that they automatically became 'like God' to many people...i guess that is where people differ...and the whole Avatar issue arises...

To me Krishna Ji and Raam Ji are the same as Hazrath Jesus(AS),Hazrath Muhammad(SAW) etc...all were born human but had the Divine Light present in them...which did make them Divine in a way but not God for sure ...

xxx

not this again. Either believe that Rama and Krishna were both heretics who pretended to be Godmen or believe they are incarnations of God.

You cant say anything else because nowhere in the Ramayana or Mahabharata did Rama or Krishna to refer to God in third person. They always referred to themselves as God.

Clearly you dont seem to know anything about Hinduism.

There is an entire "science" behind incarnations.

Each incarnation is for an age.

You cant conveniently claim the human incarnations of Vishnu as "messengers of God" while dismissing the rest.

Swami Narayan and Vithoba could have been messengers but not Rama. Because Rama traces back to certain verses of Rig Veda. It is the Eternal Vedas fulfilling itself.

 

[Shishya]

Hiya Anti-religion...

Omnipotence means 'all power' to one God...or you can say 'unlimited power'...
God need'nt take a humanly form or any sort of manifestations(Avatars) to prove he is omnipotent...

God is omnipotent through his/her power-which the Holy books and the 'enlightened ones'(not manifestations of the Lord but Prophets/Messengers/Saints) pass on to us through mediums ...

I hope that might answer your statement xxx

Youve chosen your own definition to suit your own agenda.

If your allah is omnipotent why does he struggle so hard to make people worship him?

Why does he to resort to threats of punishments?

allah discriminates because he chooses prophets.

why doesnt he make everyone a prophet?

why only muhammad is his prophet? why did jibril appear only to muhammad? was muhammad hallucinating? why must i believe in what muhammad has to say?

jibril was a shape shifting extra terrestrial of an advanced civilization.

angels and jinns are two different alien races caught up in an inter galactic war.

why does belief in allah include belief in muhammad?

why is muhammad the last messenger? clearly allah prefers muhammad over jesus and moses.

why arent you muhammad? why arent i muhammad?

why is muhammad, muhammad?

why does allah need revelations?

why not an omnipotent god make men say the shahada beyond their own control at certain times as a proof of his existence?

why dont babies take birth saying the shahada?

why dont things re-arrange automatically as the letters of allah in the white house so that those american infidel elites think twice before invading iraq, iran or afghanistan?

why does allah have to revive dead corpses as zombies on judgement day and then punish them? why not in this lifetime?

if allah was omnipotent why do muslims bury the dead out of the fear that your allah cannot make them raise from their grave on the day of judgement?

why must god drop a book in the middle of the arabian desert in the 7th century despite the universe being 15 billion years old?

why isnt allah doing anything to ease the suffering of muslims in the war torn areas of the middle east?

why do muslims have to blow themselves up to protect islam?

clearly allah ISNT omnipotent.

clearly your allah does not exist.

 

[GURSIKH]

Shishya


May i ask whats your age ?

 

[A-ManESL]

sikhism is MONIST not monotheist.

My understanding is that at esoteric level a religion can simulatneously be both monist and monotheistic because as soon as a person starts to really know the impossiblity of understanding God's nature such human concepts start to lose value. At that stage these labels start seeming useless.

Also my understanding of Sikhism is still that at an exoteric level it is monotheistic. Thats what wikipedia says, and it cites the following two references:

1. Mark Juergensmeyer, Gurinder Singh Mann (2006). The Oxford Handbook of Global Religions. US: Oxford University Press. p. 41. ISBN 0195137981.

2.Ardinger, Barbara (2006). Pagan Every Day: Finding the Extraordinary in Our Ordinary Lives. Weisfer. p. 13. ISBN 1-57863-332-X.

If you see my post on page 4, you will see that I have discussed there with Gurusikh about Sikhism being monist.

Regards.

 

[Shishya]

My understanding is that at esoteric level a religion can simulatneously be both monist and monotheistic because as soon as a person starts to really know the impossiblity of understanding God's nature such human concepts start to lose value. At that stage these labels start seeming useless.

Also my understanding of Sikhism is still that at an exoteric level it is monotheistic.

Not it is not.

The Guru Granth Sahib teaches a rejection of non-dualism, and often describes various parts of God, then says that those elements are none. It is descriptions like this that teach the ideal of the Guru Granth Sahib - there is nothing that is not God, and our spiritual aim is to merge with reality, and see none of these elements as separate. \

 

[xkatz]

In my opinion, Sikhism is pantheist. This is because Waheguru in the Mool Mantra is referred to as "Ik Oankar", meaning:

Ik- One
Oankar- Reality

Therefore it is describing Waheguru as the one reality, the universe. And pantheism is basically defined as God/Waheguru/etc. and the universe as the same. Therefore Sikh Dharma is Pantheist IMO.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

not this again. Either believe that Rama and Krishna were both heretics who pretended to be Godmen or believe they are incarnations of God.

You cant say anything else because nowhere in the Ramayana or Mahabharata did Rama or Krishna to refer to God in third person. They always referred to themselves as God.

Clearly you dont seem to know anything about Hinduism.

There is an entire "science" behind incarnations.

Each incarnation is for an age.

You cant conveniently claim the human incarnations of Vishnu as "messengers of God" while dismissing the rest.

Swami Narayan and Vithoba could have been messengers but not Rama. Because Rama traces back to certain verses of Rig Veda. It is the Eternal Vedas fulfilling itself.

You seem like a very rude Man!

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Youve chosen your own definition to suit your own agenda.

If your allah is omnipotent why does he struggle so hard to make people worship him?

Why does he to resort to threats of punishments?

allah discriminates because he chooses prophets.

why doesnt he make everyone a prophet?

why only muhammad is his prophet? why did jibril appear only to muhammad? was muhammad hallucinating? why must i believe in what muhammad has to say?

jibril was a shape shifting extra terrestrial of an advanced civilization.

angels and jinns are two different alien races caught up in an inter galactic war.

why does belief in allah include belief in muhammad?

why is muhammad the last messenger? clearly allah prefers muhammad over jesus and moses.

why arent you muhammad? why arent i muhammad?

why is muhammad, muhammad?

why does allah need revelations?

why not an omnipotent god make men say the shahada beyond their own control at certain times as a proof of his existence?

why dont babies take birth saying the shahada?

why dont things re-arrange automatically as the letters of allah in the white house so that those american infidel elites think twice before invading iraq, iran or afghanistan?

why does allah have to revive dead corpses as zombies on judgement day and then punish them? why not in this lifetime?

if allah was omnipotent why do muslims bury the dead out of the fear that your allah cannot make them raise from their grave on the day of judgement?

why must god drop a book in the middle of the arabian desert in the 7th century despite the universe being 15 billion years old?

why isnt allah doing anything to ease the suffering of muslims in the war torn areas of the middle east?

why do muslims have to blow themselves up to protect islam?

clearly allah ISNT omnipotent.

clearly your allah does not exist.

You are indeed very rude and irrespectable...

I did not say i am a Muslim or Allah is mine...

I am religionless...

You are entitled to your opinion but you cannot enforce them!

I am reporting your posts xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Youve chosen your own definition to suit your own agenda.

If your allah is omnipotent why does he struggle so hard to make people worship him?

Why does he to resort to threats of punishments?

allah discriminates because he chooses prophets.

why doesnt he make everyone a prophet?

why only muhammad is his prophet? why did jibril appear only to muhammad? was muhammad hallucinating? why must i believe in what muhammad has to say?

jibril was a shape shifting extra terrestrial of an advanced civilization.

angels and jinns are two different alien races caught up in an inter galactic war.

why does belief in allah include belief in muhammad?

why is muhammad the last messenger? clearly allah prefers muhammad over jesus and moses.

why arent you muhammad? why arent i muhammad?

why is muhammad, muhammad?

why does allah need revelations?

why not an omnipotent god make men say the shahada beyond their own control at certain times as a proof of his existence?

why dont babies take birth saying the shahada?

why dont things re-arrange automatically as the letters of allah in the white house so that those american infidel elites think twice before invading iraq, iran or afghanistan?

why does allah have to revive dead corpses as zombies on judgement day and then punish them? why not in this lifetime?

if allah was omnipotent why do muslims bury the dead out of the fear that your allah cannot make them raise from their grave on the day of judgement?

why must god drop a book in the middle of the arabian desert in the 7th century despite the universe being 15 billion years old?

why isnt allah doing anything to ease the suffering of muslims in the war torn areas of the middle east?

why do muslims have to blow themselves up to protect islam?

clearly allah ISNT omnipotent.

clearly your allah does not exist.

Shishya re-read what my post said properly!!!

I said:
Originally Posted by ZoyaHayat
Hiya Anti-religion...

Omnipotence means 'all power' to one God...or you can say 'unlimited power'...
God need'nt take a humanly form or any sort of manifestations(Avatars) to prove he is omnipotent...

God is omnipotent through his/her power-which the Holy books and the 'enlightened ones'(not manifestations of the Lord but Prophets/Messengers/Saints) pass on to us through mediums ...

I hope that might answer your statement xxx


And i said:
Originally Posted by ZoyaHayat
Gursikh this is it...

Like the Guru Granth Sahib talks of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji being born physically-it is correct God is formless,unborn etc then how can God be born in the form of Krishna Ji and Raam Ji as a human(God does'nt need a body,form or shape)?...

I personally have always believed from childhood that both Krishna Ji and Raam Ji are both Prophets/Messengers of the Lord...they rose to such lofty stands that they automatically became 'like God' to many people...i guess that is where people differ...and the whole Avatar issue arises...

To me Krishna Ji and Raam Ji are the same as Hazrath Jesus(AS),Hazrath Muhammad(SAW) etc...all were born human but had the Divine Light present in them...which did make them Divine in a way but not God for sure ...

xxx



Re-read what i meant carefully before judging me or anyone xxx

 

[DreadFish]

Im late to the discussion, and theres plenty I havent read lol, but its my understanding that Sikhism is relatively pantheism/panentheism. I think its important to note that when Guru Nanak returned from his experience with God he is said to have said something like "There is no Muslim, there is no Hindu". It is my understanding that it was Guru Nanak's effort to unite the two with the understanding that there is indeed one God or reality (Ek Onkar) and that there is nothing that divides us.

Just my understanding

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Im late to the discussion, and theres plenty I havent read lol, but its my understanding that Sikhism is relatively pantheism/panentheism. I think its important to note that when Guru Nanak returned from his experience with God he is said to have said something like "There is no Muslim, there is no Hindu". It is my understanding that it was Guru Nanak's effort to unite the two with the understanding that there is indeed one God or reality (Ek Onkar) and that there is nothing that divides us.

Just my understanding

I totally agree with you DeadFish xxx

 

[Shishya]

You seem like a very rude Man!

You are a heartless cruel woman, I was highly offended by your post.

So? I still recognize your freedom of speech.

How is that you are allowed to bruise my feelings by condemning and insulting my religion? Yet make only yourself immune to any criticism?

I defended myself. But you cry and turn yourself into a victim? When infact you are the one who insulted my religion!

You shared your opinions. I simply responded.

My duty is to defend my beliefs. Which I did.

Just like you expressed your opinions.

 

[DreadFish]

You are a heartless cruel woman, I was highly offended by your post.

So? I still recognize your freedom of speech.

How is that you are allowed to bruise my feelings by condemning and insulting my religion? Yet make only yourself immune to any criticism?

I defended myself. But you cry and turn yourself into a victim? When infact you are the one who insulted my religion!

You shared your opinions. I simply responded.

My duty is to defend my beliefs. Which I did.

Just like you expressed your opinions.

There is nothing to defend my friend

 

[ZoyaHayat]

You are a heartless cruel woman, I was highly offended by your post.

So? I still recognize your freedom of speech.

How is that you are allowed to bruise my feelings by condemning and insulting my religion? Yet make only yourself immune to any criticism?

I defended myself. But you cry and turn yourself into a victim? When infact you are the one who insulted my religion!

You shared your opinions. I simply responded.

My duty is to defend my beliefs. Which I did.

Just like you expressed your opinions.

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

I was'nt attacking anyones opinion or beliefs...nor was i enforcing my opinion onto anyone...

There is a difference in expressing an opinion and enforcing one's thoughts/beliefs!

I shall not be apart of your enforcement...this is my last post to this thread xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Heey Zoya and Shishya dude,please stop debating over this.This is Sikhism Dir.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Heey Zoya and Shishya dude,please stop debating over this.This is Sikhism Dir.

I am not debating at all-i never debate...

I hardly ever said anything-he brought it all up and i dont know why!!!

Seems like he has an issue with me-dont know why though xxx