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how long do you think humans have been on earth?

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm pondering this possible opinion that who we see ourselves as humans had a distinct beginning point in the history of human beings that occurred in a specific year of 4026 BCE. Though as a mythological beginning, that it was a point of "decision", that something woke up in the human creatures and "chose to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge and become as God", it doesn't exactly bear up date-wise with the eye opening of humans historically, differentiating them from simply being as the beasts of the field. It's too late historically.

Bear with my thoughts here a little. I certainly get the existential trip that the story of Adam and Eve speaks to in the book of Genesis. I see it as quite expressive of that inner sense of separation that we as humans experience, both from the world, others, and God, that sense of our own aloneness, our nakedness, the knowledge of our own upcoming demise, or death, or more pointedly our non-existence. As humans die, we don't just die in our bodies, we die as our unique individual "me", our self identities. "I shall be no more". These two deaths is what makes us human, and the latter is far more terrifying to us and propels us in all directions to avoid facing that non-existence, imagining ourselves continuing as immortals, and whatnot.

I see the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis as an account of that, a story about that. Not about earth history, but a history of our uniquely modern human existential angst. We awoke to a differentiated self from our previously merely being part of the eco-system on a biological level. I get it. I think its a great myth that has teeth this way. It doesn't of course me the actual characters were history figures in flesh and bone, but they are very much representative of our humanness on an imaginal level. (The imaginal refers to "images", not mental fantasy. It pertains to archetypal forms).

Did this awakening to our 'soul' happen 4000'ish BCE? No, I'd say much earlier than that (again, that date, that story, is mere fabric on an archetypal truth, so to make it scientific destroys that, to be blunt. Historically you see early religious expressions which reflect this existential awareness reaching back to 50,000 BCE. Fertility symbols and musical instruments have been found that old. This is very much humans beginning to experience themselves in a magical sort of mental soup, the earliest expressions of humans realizing themselves separate from just functioning biologically within the eco-system. Here is where we began 'waking up", our eyes opening from that slumber in the arms of the Great Mother, the earth system that gives birth and destroys life though blood (the beginning of sacrificial systems).

What we see historically, through artifacts of art and later literature, is a developmental progression of self-awakening of human consciousness from archaic, to magic, to mythic forms of that awakening in culture. (see Jean Gebser's work) The mythic stage actually developed up from the earlier magic stage about 5000 years ago, or roughly 3000 BCE. The story of Genesis reflects human conscious seeing itself in the world through the use of mythological symbols and stories. So what you see in the Garden story, the story of the Fall, is an expression of human self-awareness operating at the mythic level, talking about what we all as humans experience as our existential angst. The story in the book of Genesis fits into that period of time, being written sometime after the Babylonian Enuma Elish, which it borrows its basic theme from. That was dated somewhere around 1100 BCE.

Without getting more technical than that, I kind of get the 'sense' of a 4000 BCE date for origin of who people sees themselves as human fits. It is itself reflective of a mythological stage of conscious awareness, the beginning of seeing themselves in the world in that structure. In a way, its true, in referencing that stages of development in ourselves, the existential terror in realizing we are naked, in realizing isolation in ourselves, like pinpointing in our personal history when we first awoke to the world in the way we ourselves in it now. Those in a mythic stage of seeing the world, who resonate with that, can say, "Sure, who I see myself as is reflected in that story", that awakening to the mythic stage roughly 5000 years ago.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Without getting more technical than that, I kind of get the 'sense' of a 4000 BCE date for origin of who people sees themselves as human fits.
As long as you dispense with the cultures in which it does not fit.

"Without getting more technical" ... :rolleyes: ... this is nothing more than the No True Scotsman fallacy at best and petty Western chauvinism at worst.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As long as you dispense with the cultures in which it does not fit.

"Without getting more technical" ... :rolleyes: ... this is nothing more than the No True Scotsman fallacy at best and petty Western chauvinism at worst.
Have you read Gebser's work? I'm simply saying I don't wish to lose the point of what I was saying citing the works of scholars all over the place. I get you have the opinion this ignores cultures, but I'm of the school of thought that it does not.
 

kloth

Active Member
Humans, as being recognizable to ourselves, are a relatively recent event. SO..... allowing for Cro-Magnon... say, 60,000 years give or take?


From memory, of what I have read over the decades... my memories as an amoeba are a bit hazy...

I'm wondering why other forms of life have not started. other forms of intelligent life form like humans, but maybe not human but still as intelligent.
or maybe a new race of people.

how ever humans first developed, i would like to know why they can't still develop this way, or a new kind of animal that isn't that intelligent.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
what's YOU'RE guess? and how did you come up with this conclusion?

and i don't mean since they were born. ;)

50-150,000 years. Based on archeology and anthropology. Modern humans that is.

Archaic, Neanderthal, and others... before and during the same time frame, but gone now.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I'm wondering why other forms of life have not started. other forms of intelligent life form like humans, but maybe not human but still as intelligent.
or maybe a new race of people.
The pre-sapiens were very much like humans and had some intelligence, but lower than ours. Some of them made tools. Some made ornaments. Some buried their dead. Some used weapons. Some cooked food. And so on.

how ever humans first developed, i would like to know why they can't still develop this way, or a new kind of animal that isn't that intelligent.
Competition and necessity. Intelligence is not necessarily the best or most fit for survival. Besides, apes have some intelligence, and so do other species.
 

kloth

Active Member
The pre-sapiens were very much like humans and had some intelligence, but lower than ours. Some of them made tools. Some made ornaments. Some buried their dead. Some used weapons. Some cooked food. And so on.


Competition and necessity. Intelligence is not necessarily the best or most fit for survival. Besides, apes have some intelligence, and so do other species.

what's you exact resource of knowing all this happened for sure?
 

Wherenextcolumbus

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering why other forms of life have not started. other forms of intelligent life form like humans, but maybe not human but still as intelligent.
or maybe a new race of people.

how ever humans first developed, i would like to know why they can't still develop this way, or a new kind of animal that isn't that intelligent.
It is rare to have complex life anyway, majority of life is made up of microorganisms, so I can see how it would be even more rare to have another species very similar to homo sapiens? That is only my guess by the way.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
what's you exact resource of knowing all this happened for sure?
The fossil record. Physics establishing methods of dating, like half-time of radioactive materials. Geology and how strata is formed. Anthropology and archeology looking at actual artifacts. And other sciences. I took a few classes of different kinds and even some labs where we had to learn, measure, and establish our own conclusions from observations. My sources hence are three fold: 1) my own observations in lab, 2) learning from teachers who has done research for many years and I trust that the pictures and facts they gave me was right, 3) books by scientists who researched and done experiments.
 

kloth

Active Member
The fossil record. Physics establishing methods of dating, like half-time of radioactive materials. Geology and how strata is formed. Anthropology and archeology looking at actual artifacts. And other sciences. I took a few classes of different kinds and even some labs where we had to learn, measure, and establish our own conclusions from observations. My sources hence are three fold: 1) my own observations in lab, 2) learning from teachers who has done research for many years and I trust that the pictures and facts they gave me was right, 3) books by scientists who researched and done experiments.
which scientist books? and which school did you attend? what classes did you take? why did you trust the pictures they gave you as being right? did you get a photo analysis on them? I'm just curious. thanks.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
which scientist books? and which school did you attend? what classes did you take? why did you trust the pictures they gave you as being right? did you get a photo analysis on them? I'm just curious. thanks.

Why are you asking these personal questions? You asked "how long do you think humans have been on Earth," and I gave you the answer. Then you asked why I think that, and I gave you the answer. Now you want to know personal stuff too? No thanks. Not playing that game.

If you want to know more, take some college classes yourself.

When it comes to science books, there are so many of them out there and some of the are easier read but less detailed, and others the opposite. I don't think recommending expensive textbooks that we had in the classes would do you any good, besides they're packed up at the moment. Besides, I'm not so sure--based on your inquiry--that it really matters to you what books I specifically read.

What's the purpose of this thread? What's your end-game here?
 

kloth

Active Member
Why are you asking these personal questions? You asked "how long do you think humans have been on Earth," and I gave you the answer. Then you asked why I think that, and I gave you the answer. Now you want to know personal stuff too? No thanks. Not playing that game.

If you want to know more, take some college classes yourself.

When it comes to science books, there are so many of them out there and some of the are easier read but less detailed, and others the opposite. I don't think recommending expensive textbooks that we had in the classes would do you any good, besides they're packed up at the moment. Besides, I'm not so sure--based on your inquiry--that it really matters to you what books I specifically read.

What's the purpose of this thread? What's your end-game here?

uh, i ask because i am curious like i already said. i would like to know what schools focus on this matter, etc. you are the one who already offered personal information about where you come from and your teachings, schooling, etc.
no offense, but i assume you are not being truthful if you suddenly get so defensive.
you could have simply said i don't wanna release anymore information.

if you are so into that subject you shouldn't have a problem about giving up a book title for someone who is also interested in the subject, obviously.

but never mind. thanks anyway. and thanks for the initial interest.
 

dgirl1986

Big Queer Chesticles!
what's YOU'RE guess? and how did you come up with this conclusion?

and i don't mean since they were born. ;)

I am fairly ignorant of all the scientific evidence...so at a guess would say maybe 6-10 thousand years
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
uh, i ask because i am curious like i already said. i would like to know what schools focus on this matter, etc. you are the one who already offered personal information about where you come from and your teachings, schooling, etc.
The only "personal" information I provided was that I did go to school to learn about these things, and that was the answer to your previous question.

Now, you were asking which school... that's too personal. I'm not going to give away where I live. Do you want my SSN too? Forget that.

It's very suspicious that you asked that question. Either you asked it because you didn't believe me and wanted to "put me in on the spot" or something, or you're just way too curious about peoples private life.

no offense, but i assume you are not being truthful if you suddenly get so defensive.
I was being defensive because you're inquiry points to that you didn't believe me. There's no need to ask about which school I attended. There's no valid reason to ask that question regarding your OP. It's out of line, and your aggressive attitude to know this stuff shows that you're not honest about your "curiosity."

you could have simply said i don't wanna release anymore information.
That's what I did.

if you are so into that subject you shouldn't have a problem about giving up a book title for someone who is also interested in the subject, obviously.
There are plenty of books. Google is your friend. Your line of questioning is dubious and seems to be based on ulterior motives.

but never mind. thanks anyway. and thanks for the initial interest.
You're welcome.

And FYI, you're now on my ignore list.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
There's an ignore list?!?!?! How do I access it?

You didn't know? It's the best thing invented for forums since deep fried beer icecream. :D

Click on user. There a "user list" menu on the user page. One of the options is "ignore."

I used to moderate other forums, and couldn't use that feature because of the duty. As a regular user here, it's saving my eyes from a lot of temptation and frustration. LOL.
 

kloth

Active Member
And FYI, you're now on my ignore list.

well thank you. :cool: fyi it's the least of my concerns. however, i wasn't playing a game, only looking for more insight, links, etc. if someone wants to take it as a game then that's on them. there's no need to play games on a forums. that's why i am as direct as possible.
thanks again though. enjoy your journey. :yes:

i was just thinking if i was on your ignore list then why reply back? hmmm. you won't see this anyway so i guess it doesn't matter.
 

kloth

Active Member
I am fairly ignorant of all the scientific evidence...so at a guess would say maybe 6-10 thousand years

I'm thinking maybe 2,000 give or take, but mostly give a few years.

i think this because i believe humans would have progressed with technology a lot sooner than now. i mean look where humans were with technology lets say 200 years ago. with things like computers, phones, satellite, surgery, tv, jet airliners, sky scrapers and just building city's, etc. in such a short time. they really didn't advance with all this until the last 100 plus years.
but i am sure humans were still as desperate to evolve with these things 1000's of years ago. even if technology feeds off itself to progress faster.
 
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