How long was a day when the universe began

[exchemist]

Many arguments here about the bible and creation are about "a day". We all only know the concept of "a day" as we live our lives here on earth.

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

As you've posted this in Religious Debates, I presume this is not about the science. Which is just as well because, in science terms, your question would have been a silly question, for the reasons some of the replies indicate.

So I take it this is about the "day" as referred to in Genesis. The mainstream Christian view of the Genesis account is allegorical. The use of a succession of "days" is just a way to tell a story of creation as a labour of God, progressing in stages with, importantly, a day of rest (and, later on, worship) at the end. "Days" obviously make no astronomical sense before there was an earth orbiting a sun, but then it is not a story about astronomy.

The Genesis creation story is really about the following crucial ideas:

- God as creator of the universe
- God as creator of Man, in His own image, i.e. with an immortal soul
- The relationship between God and Man, as a personal relationship, involving communication in both directions
- The acquisition by Man of moral awareness, and hence of moral responsibility
- The intrinsic moral imperfection (sinfulness, or disobedience) of Man and its consequences.

These ideas underpin everything else in the bible, in both Old and New Testaments.

 

[Nimos]

Did the concept of measurement exist, before humans?

Depends if there are other lifeforms out there

But to me, "measurement" is not something that exists, it's like asking if addition/subtraction existed before humans. It's something you can do when you have several objects or instances of something. I would probably just say that it is something that naturally occurs when possible. But also it makes no sense to measure or add/subtract things unless you have an agent that can make use of it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Many arguments here about the bible and creation are about "a day". We all only know the concept of "a day" as we live our lives here on earth.

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

Time is affected by gravity. If you were to orbit a high gravity singularity you would age more slowly than the rest of the universe.

Now let us suppose that the universe was once a hot single point (though this has recently come back into debate). If that were the case gravity might be quite intense, and so objects leaving that point might experience a slowing of time. What we perceive as an acceleration of our expanding universe might be explained by this effect. Those closest to the single hot point will experience a different time frame and age more slowly.

Let us suppose that the recently suspected ancient galaxies are ones which are closer to the universe's center. This would explain their ironic old age -- if they are indeed galaxies.

Need references?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Many arguments here about the bible and creation are about "a day". We all only know the concept of "a day" as we live our lives here on earth.

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

A "day" involves the rotation of a planet on its own axis in reference to the star it orbits.
At the start of the universe, neither planets or stars existed.
So a "day" as a concept didn't exist then.

 

[exchemist]

Why take such a broad brush? I don't see the necessity. You could limit it to believers, or Christians, or YEC, or simply the authors of Genesis.

Or Germans.

 

[Altfish]

A day is a man-made invention; based on the time it takes for the Moon to go around the Earth.
So when the Universe began there was no Earth and no Moon, so a day is yet to be something.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Why take such a broad brush? I don't see the necessity. You could limit it to believers, or Christians, or YEC, or simply the authors of Genesis.

Or atheists. To me there is no greater absurdity, than the proposition that this spectacularly beautiful and mysterious universe originated in a cipher, means nothing, and aimlessly rushes nowhere.

 

[ChristineM]

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

First define what a day is, what time is.

When the universe began suns did not exist nor did life to measure it so what we consider a day did not exist.

 

[1213]

...
How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

I think that is a good question. Day is normally "one rotation of earth". It is possible that it has changed.

And modern definition of second is a certain frequency, which also may change. But, it would be difficult to notice, without any solid reference point. I don't think humans can know it.

 

[We Never Know]

A unit of measurement is a unit of measurement. A foot is a foot. It wouldn't be a foot if it wasn't a foot.
Let's say that I measured your height by having you stand against a wall and marking it with a piece of tape. If I moved the tape to a higher or lower position would you magically get taller or shorter?

A foot or inch doesn't change. Depending on where you are, lengths of days do.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Depends if there are other lifeforms out there

But to me, "measurement" is not something that exists, it's like asking if addition/subtraction existed before humans. It's something you can do when you have several objects or instances of something. I would probably just say that it is something that naturally occurs when possible. But also it makes no sense to measure or add/subtract things unless you have an agent that can make use of it.

Plato and Roger Penrose are two thinkers who argued that the abstract mathematical world does indeed have an objective, mind independent existence. Not every philosopher would agree, certainly.

 

[Father Heathen]

Did the concept of measurement exist, before humans?

A "day" involves the rotation of a planet on its own axis in reference to the star it orbits.
At the start of the universe, neither planets or stars existed.
So a "day" as a concept didn't exist then.

A day is a man-made invention; based on the time it takes for the Moon to go around the Earth.
So when the Universe began there was no Earth and no Moon, so a day is yet to be something.

First define what a day is, what time is.

When the universe began suns did not exist nor did life to measure it so what we consider a day did not exist.

So things were magically weightless until we invented a unit of measurement for weight?

 

[Father Heathen]

A foot or inch doesn't change. Depending on where you are, lengths of days do.

If we're using earth days, it's going to be 24 hours regardless of when or where you're at. If earth blew up, would time freeze? No. Just because planets rotate at different speeds doesn't mean they're each have their own magic time bubble.

 

[ChristineM]

So things were magically weightless until we invented a units of measurement for weight?

I never considered that

 

[ChristineM]

If we're using earth days, it's going to be 24 hours regardless of when or where you're at. If earth blew up, would time freeze? No. Just because planets rotate at different speeds doesn't mean they're each jave their own magic time bubble.

23 hours 56 minutes (average)

 

[RestlessSoul]

So things were magically weightless until we invented a unit of measurement for weight?

According to Descartes and Kant, not in any meaningful sense. According to George Berkeley, assuredly not. To the Logical Positivists of the Vienna Circle, the question doesn't make sense. And so on.

 

[Father Heathen]

23 hours 56 minutes (average)

Right, but even if the earth stopped rotating completely, a 24 hour period would still be a 24 hour period.

 

[Father Heathen]

According to Descartes and Kant, not in any meaningful sense. According to George Berkeley, assuredly not. To the Logical Positivists of the Vienna Circle, the question doesn't make sense. And so on.

So time can't flow until a sapient being creates a way to measure it?

 

[ChristineM]

Plato and Roger Penrose are two thinkers who argued that the abstract mathematical world does indeed have an objective, mind independent existence. Not every philosopher would agree, certainly.

Plato lived almost 2500 years ago when the view of the world was very limited and Penrose changes his mind more often than he changes his clothes.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So time can't flow until a sapient being creates a way to measure it?

Depends.

“Time and space are not conditions of existence. They are modes of our thought.”

- Albert Einstein