How long was a day when the universe began

[Nimos]

Plato and Roger Penrose are two thinkers who argued that the abstract mathematical world does indeed have an objective, mind independent existence. Not every philosopher would agree, certainly.

It might have an objective/aim, but I would still argue that it has no sense unless there is an agent capable of using or reflecting on those things. Kind of like, if we look at life as a whole, there doesn't really seem to be a logical reason why life seems to thrive towards survival and procreation. None of us gets anything out of it if we just look at life from a top view. We/animals are born and die and there doesn't seem to be any universal goal or benefit from living compared to not living.

And honestly, I think that holds true whether one is religious or not, if we go with God of the bible, it is never explained what the reason for life is in the first place or even what the purpose is with heaven or hell.

But nonetheless, there seems to be an objective/aim for life wanting to survive regardless of whether we understand it or not.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Plato lived almost 2500 years ago when the view of the world was very limited and Penrose changes his mind more often than he changes his clothes.

They both had minds as magnificent as the universe imo, and when great minds speak, even and especially across millennia, I like to at least try to listen.

 

[Stevicus]

It might have an objective/aim, but I would still argue that it has no sense unless there is an agent capable of using or reflecting on those things.

This sounds like the old philosophical question about "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around." Can we agree that it still makes a noise even if no one is around to hear it?

 

[ChristineM]

A foot or inch doesn't change. Depending on where you are, lengths of days do.

If you have my woodsman's tape measure, 50cm is very flexible. Somewhere between 40 & 60cm is typical.

 

[ChristineM]

They both had minds as magnificent as the universe imo, and when great minds speak, even and especially across millennia, I like to at least try to listen.

And why not. It may of course be meaningless or totally wrong but it's certainly interesting

 

[ChristineM]

Right, but even if the earth stopped rotating completely, a 24 hour period would still be a 24 hour period.

If your watch was accurate it would tell you ot was a 24 hour period and it would generally be understood as 24 hours. But in reality what is marked as 24 hours is actually 23:56 and some seconds (give or take a few seconds

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Many arguments here about the bible and creation are about "a day". We all only know the concept of "a day" as we live our lives here on earth.

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

We Never Know. Good afternoon. I'll answer your question with a question. How long does a Sabbath Day last?

 

[RestlessSoul]

It might have an objective/aim, but I would still argue that it has no sense unless there is an agent capable of using or reflecting on those things. Kind of like, if we look at life as a whole, there doesn't really seem to be a logical reason why life seems to thrive towards survival and procreation. None of us gets anything out of it if we just look at life from a top view. We/animals are born and die and there doesn't seem to be any universal goal or benefit from living compared to not living.

And honestly, I think that holds true whether one is religious or not, if we go with God of the bible, it is never explained what the reason for life is in the first place or even what the purpose is with heaven or hell.

But nonetheless, there seems to be an objective/aim for life wanting to survive regardless of whether we understand it or not.

Ha, yeah, I used the word objective in the sense of something which has an independent existence of it’s own. Plato and Penrose suggest that mathematics is like that - rather than just an abstraction of thought, it may be a fundamental condition of reality, like time and space (though not every philosophically inclined scientist thinks this of time and space either). It’s an interesting idea, that’s all, something to ponder.

As for a purpose in life, I do certainly think human beings need one, beyond mere survival. Though when survival is threatened, one’s perspective naturally narrows down to that, and that alone.

 

[Father Heathen]

If your watch was accurate it would tell you ot was a 24 hour period and it would generally be understood as 24 hours. But in reality what is marked as 24 hours is actually 23:56 and some seconds (give or take a few seconds

It's still an established amount of time even if the Earth's rotation isn't exactly 24 hours.
Let's say you had two rocks; one weighing 30 pounds, the other 60. Even if pounds as a measurement of weight never existed, one rock would still weight twice as much as the other. Rolling back an odometer wouldn't make an old car new again, etc.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps the OP is a bit confused. Time does not rely on the spin of the Earth. Over short time spans, such as a human lifetime, or even the amount of time that man has been civilized, there has been no change in the length of a day that would be detectable to a man. So it appears to be a constant. But it is not. 4.5 billion years ago shortly after the Earth and Moon formed (we would have no idea at all of the rate of spin before the collision that likely formed the Moon) the rotation of the Earth was once ever 6 hours. If you were on the Earth and in a spacesuit you would have definitely noticed the difference. The rate of time would not be any different. The speed of the Sun across the sky would be roughly four times as fast.


For accurate time you would need an accurate metric. An atomic clock does not vary in speed (well aside from possible relativistic effects) That would always accurately reflect the passage of time you would sense if present.

Now this only gets us to the length a day about 4.55 billion years ago. The universe is more than twice that old. You cannot have an undefined "day" before the Earth was formed. Time would have still existed but the question about how long a day is becomes meaningless. Time itself would still be the same. Here is the problem, your question tells us that you know that the length of a day has varied. But it also seems that you think that the Earth has always existed and that is where this question goes off the rails since it has not. For two thirds of the universe's existence there was no Earth. It had no day length to measure.

 

[RestlessSoul]

If your watch was accurate it would tell you ot was a 24 hour period and it would generally be understood as 24 hours. But in reality what is marked as 24 hours is actually 23:56 and some seconds (give or take a few seconds

How fast your watch moved would depend on how fast you yourself were moving, and how close you were to a massive object.

There is no universal now to begin from, nor is the passage of time uniform in all conditions. Facts about time are not absolute, they depend upon a frame of reference: 24 hours in one frame of reference would not be the same measure of time in another.

 

[ChristineM]

It's still an established amount of time even if the Earth's rotation isn't exactly 24 hours.
Let's say you had two rocks; one weighing 30 pounds, the other 60. Even if pounds as a measurement of weight never existed, one rock would still weight twice as much as the other. Rolling back an odometer wouldn't make an old car new again, etc.

Its established that 23:56 is 24:00. It just makes it easier

 

[ChristineM]

How fast your watch moved would depend on how fast you yourself were moving, and how close you were to a massive object.

There is no universal now to begin from, nor is the passage of time uniform in all conditions. Facts about time are not absolute, they depend upon a frame of reference: 24 hours in one frame of reference would not be the same measure of time in another.

I am of course using sidereal time, used in astronomy for accuracy. Though an approximation of 24 hours is good enough for everyday use

 

[Subduction Zone]

If your watch was accurate it would tell you ot was a 24 hour period and it would generally be understood as 24 hours. But in reality what is marked as 24 hours is actually 23:56 and some seconds (give or take a few seconds

You appear to be conflating a sidereal day and a solar day. A solar day is 24 hours, The sidereal day is a bit shorter. That is the period of one full rotation of the Earth, but not exactly. The sidereal day is based upon our equinox, which also undergoes precession, so perhaps you meant a stellar day. But without a qualifier when one says "day" it is assumed that one is talking about the period from noon to noon. And that, by average, is 24 hours:

Sidereal time - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

Its established that 23:56 is 24:00. It just makes it easier

And there are roughly 366 and a quarter sidereal "days" in a year.

 

[ChristineM]

You appear to be conflating a sidereal day and a solar day. A solar day is 24 hours, The sidereal day is a bit shorter. That is the period of one full rotation of the Earth, but not exactly. The sidereal day is based upon our equinox, which also undergoes precession, so perhaps you meant a stellar day. But without a qualifier when one says "day" it is assumed that one is talking about the period from noon to noon. And that, by average, is 24 hours:

Sidereal time - Wikipedia

I made that clear in my post #53.

 

[rational experiences]

When o rock isn't time.

It's gas heavens alight is...no mass.

Mass burning consuming just exhibits light.

O goes around a mass consuming alight body O.

12 said man.

As O was the same as O...earth geo central as itself in space.

 

[nPeace]

Many arguments here about the bible and creation are about "a day". We all only know the concept of "a day" as we live our lives here on earth.

How long was a day when the universe became the universe?

That would depend on what or whose perspective.
For example, measurements, as we know, are all based on man's view.
A hand's breath... A cubic... a foot.... If we go back in time we will see that these had an origin, and varied based on the "originator".

Of the creator of the universe, it is said, a thousand years is as one day.
So, while, to us, a thousand years is a large amount of time, it is nothing but "a day" to the creator.

To illustrate this further, people often say, "in the day of...". For example, "in Julius Caesar's day". Obviously, they are not thinking of 24 hours.
It's madness to argue that a day must be 24 hours in all contexts. Absolute madness! ...but we live in a world of madness. So not surprising that there are people who actually do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I made that clear in my post #53.

I see that now, but it was not there when I started to type mine. Had to find the old article and read it a bit first. So I was ninjaed. (And I am quite frequently surprised when I see that Google has added a word. I guess that "ninja" is now a verb too since it can have a past tense.)

 

[nPeace]

It leads to interesting questions, which only become absurd if you follow them to absurdity.

If this happens a lot, that’s probably because humans are intrinsically absurd.

Well... some humans are.