-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How Many Athiest if any Have "Moments of Doubt"
- Thread starter DallasApple
- Start date
- Status
You are correct if you imply that I was talking about my own personal experience. I had a very emotional time with religion until I became to believe is God without any doubt. Intellectual stability created emotional stability in me in reference to religion. Now, if I could be something else besides a Gadfly, that would be better but one must live with what he is.
I think my firm response to my faith does anger people who are not sure of their faith; however, I am having problems figuring that out. I would be interested to know why that is, when it is possible to have the same peace I have. People make harsh remarks to me when totally unsuspected of them. As you say, you have doubts from time to time, as I used to have, how do you feel when someone tells you that they have no doubt whatsoever?
GadFly
texan1
Active Member
Does this seem to anger people in your real life, or on the forum? Because if you are referring to this forum, with all due respect, I think you might just be overly sensitive. People come here to debate. I don't think it's your faith people respond to, it's some of your insults and poorly phrased arguments. We are probably all guilty of that from time to time.
And if you achieved emotional stability through belief in God, that's wonderful. I wouldn't want to take that away from you. I simply attribute the stability in my life to other things. And I have found peace by letting go of a personal God and religion. I am never tormented by doubt even though I recognize that there is a degree of uncertainty with regard to a divinity since none of us can ever really know.
In my opinion, if someone is 100% sure of their faith, then fine - why would that bother me? But sometimes if someone is 100% sure of their faith, they are unable to think rationally about certain things and open their eyes to other points of view. When they have 100% faith in an idea that is cruel or unfair just because it's in the Bible for example, then it bothers me.
How do you feel when someone tells you they have no doubt whatsoever that there is no God? If you are 100% certain there is, then you shouldn't let it bother you.
SaveMeJebus
Member
HI Dallas apple i'm atheist and yes sometimes i think maybe there is a god, usually if i see something in nature that is so complex and beautiful sometimes you wonder maybe just maybe there is something there, but as you say i always go back to my atheist ways.
SaveMeJebus
Member
and no it doesn't frighten me believing there is no god, this has been a problem in human history for hundreds of years. we want to think there is something there and that being on this earth can't be all there is, and that is why religions have thrived. but i believe being dead will be pretty much the same as not being born, can't say when i'm dieing though that i will be so confident. haha.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Maybe it's not so much your attitude toward your faith that bugs other people, as your attitude toward other people. For example, calling other people unstable just because they disagree with you is off-putting. Something to think about.
Let us be honest about how things are. It is a fact that myself and others, which includes you, are emotionally more stable when this world is more clear and reasonable to them. I use existentialisms an example. A strong criticism of existentialisms is that it does not have the properties of cosmology and ontology and therefore does not qualify as being complete enough to create a world system. Existentialism was the big hit philosophy when I was in college. Everybody said they were an existentialist. The existentialist were the most confused and emotional unstable bunch of kids that I have ever encountered. The reason was that they did not have enough information to visualize a real world and or what a supreme being would be like in an existential world because there was no ontology or cosmology theory in their philosophy. For college freshmen living through that whole existential atmosphere destroyed the minds and emotional stability of young students.Does this seem to anger people in your real life, or on the forum? Because if you are referring to this forum, with all due respect, I think you might just be overly sensitive. People come here to debate. I don't think it's your faith people respond to, it's some of your insults and poorly phrased arguments. We are probably all guilty of that from time to time.
And if you achieved emotional stability through belief in God, that's wonderful. I wouldn't want to take that away from you. I simply attribute the stability in my life to other things. And I have found peace by letting go of a personal God and religion. I am never tormented by doubt even though I recognize that there is a degree of uncertainty with regard to a divinity since none of us can ever really know.
In my opinion, if someone is 100% sure of their faith, then fine - why would that bother me? But sometimes if someone is 100% sure of their faith, they are unable to think rationally about certain things and open their eyes to other points of view. When they have 100% faith in an idea that is cruel or unfair just because it's in the Bible for example, then it bothers me.
How do you feel when someone tells you they have no doubt whatsoever that there is no God? If you are 100% certain there is, then you shouldn't let it bother you.
Today, the fad philosophy is atheism, especially on this forum where atheist seem to be here way out of proportion when related to their incidence in society at large and especially in proportion to all the theist that are represented on this forum. This thread is particularly of interest to me because it reminds me of the philosophical foolishness of my college days. It is unimaginable to have so many people to have so many doubts about what they believe in life and to express such anxieties and fears about the end of life. I guess it is existential anxieties.
I am not rude as you imply. GadFly's are walking epiphinies and that is what agers people. I do not have to ask you why people get angry at me. I know and it is not me that they recent but it is the fact that I know what I know and I know what I do not know. That is why I am superior to you and all the other atheist protagonist. I know there is a God because I was able to reason with the evidence of God in my mind and I do not refer to dogma of the various churches. I do have peace of mind and I have no doubt.
I told mball in this thread that I had found God through natural theology instead of dogma, since he had contempt for dogma and suggested he could do the same thing. Although he rejected the idea, he was civil about it. Then I pointed out this emotional connection between what you know for sure and what you don't know for sure. I think this is what you and the op were upset about and you said I am sometimes rude. If that means I am sure of what I know, then I am rude often.
The above are your words. Anybody who thinks logically knows that the more true your premises are, the better your reasoning is. You obviously think the opposite is true for you say 100% of being sure prevents one from being rational. Now how intelligent is that? Not very, I can tell you. With logic like that you can always depend on having doubts about atheism and God.
I do not believe what you said for one minute. It is my faith people, especially atheist, respond to. It is not my insults, it is the truth that insults you and my poorly phrased arguments beats anything you and your atheist friends throw at me. Yes, I do think if you could, you would take my faith and confidence away from me, but you can not. It is not my arrogance you object to, it is my faith.I don't think it's your faith people respond to, it's some of your insults and poorly phrased arguments. We are probably all guilty of that from time to time.
And if you achieved emotional stability through belief in God, that's wonderful. I wouldn't want to take that away from you.
That degree of uncertainty that does not torment you, since none of us can never really know, well it does not hold up very well since some of us really do know for certain. If that torments you, you better go back to see if you can pick God up again from wherever you threw him.
In the greatest of humility
GadFly
Alceste
Vagabond
No, it's your arrogance.
In all honesty, you don't come off as a person with faith in God, but as a person with doubts so grave and disturbing you would rather exaggerate your certainty and belittle others who are at peace with mystery, rather than examine your own fearful soul.
I'm just saying that's how you come off. I could be wrong. I'm comfortable with that.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
You know, if everything you said was just a joke,and meant with complete sarcasm, it couldn't be any more ignorant, wacky and just plain crazy. You're so out there that you're like a caricature, not an actual person.
texan1
Active Member
Alceste kind of took the words right out of my mouth.
Your previous post is just way off, you are reading much more into my statements than is really there. And when you say things like "that is why I am superior to you..." or make assumptions about who I am and how stable I am based simply on an internet thread, the discussion is no longer fruitful or respectful.
I enjoy discussing and debating on this forum. I am very comfortable with my views and who I am. I have gained some good insight and just simply had fun talking with people of all faiths. I have learned quite a bit here with regards to religion, philosophy, science, etc. and I have great respect for my Christian friends. I may disagree with people but that's part of the fun, it's intellectually stimulating. I am never sitting at my computer in an emotional rage.
I feel I have been civil with you on this forum and I am very sorry that you feel otherwise Gadfly. I may refrain from responding to you in the future because it seems I need to walk on eggshells when discussing topics with you. Sorry to have upset you.
And sorry Dallas Apple that the conversation went a little astray.
Your previous post is just way off, you are reading much more into my statements than is really there. And when you say things like "that is why I am superior to you..." or make assumptions about who I am and how stable I am based simply on an internet thread, the discussion is no longer fruitful or respectful.
I enjoy discussing and debating on this forum. I am very comfortable with my views and who I am. I have gained some good insight and just simply had fun talking with people of all faiths. I have learned quite a bit here with regards to religion, philosophy, science, etc. and I have great respect for my Christian friends. I may disagree with people but that's part of the fun, it's intellectually stimulating. I am never sitting at my computer in an emotional rage.
I feel I have been civil with you on this forum and I am very sorry that you feel otherwise Gadfly. I may refrain from responding to you in the future because it seems I need to walk on eggshells when discussing topics with you. Sorry to have upset you.
And sorry Dallas Apple that the conversation went a little astray.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Do let us, it's always so refereshing.
That is so right, and may explain why atheists in general are so emotionally stable. <snip bizarre and irrelevant digression into existentialism>
Well, if you can't mount an argument, you can always just denigrate someone else's position by calling it a fad. Atheism does seem to be increasing lately, and I can see how that would bother someone who was insecure in their theist belief system.
I do get the impression that there are more atheists here than in the general U.S. population. Why does that bother you? Do you have an insecurity problem? What would you like us to do, go away, so as to address your need for affirmative action? Maybe you should recruit some Christians if this bothers you.
Are we reading the same thread? That's not what is the atheists in this thread have said.
Well, several people here seem to find you quite rude. Since rudeness is all about how you treat other people, maybe you should reconsider this.
Nothing like a good dose of Christian humility. You know, I think GadFly actually doesn't realize why calling other people names bothers them, and seriously believes it's because they resent his secret knowledge of The Truth. Wow.
Why are you talking about yourself in a thread addressed to atheists? Need some attention?
No, it means that you barge into threads addressed to other people and call them names.
Just keep telling yourself that. It's not your rudeness, it's your faith. It's not the name-calling, it's your faith. It's not your arrogance, it's your faith. People just can't stand it when someone has faith.
Damn, need to order a new irony meter again. Better get an upgrade.
Well, atheists, what do you think? Does GadFly make you just want to rush out and convert to Christianity?
It is obvious that you are trying to insult me to make yourself feel better. I do not wish to encounter you and would like to avoid you, but your living testimony to the ugliness of your philosophy needs to be seen. I would never initiate an old woman's cat fight on a public forum like this, as you have done. I am certainly not guilty of doing what you accuse me.
Originally Posted by GadFly
I have found unbelief to be a storehouse of emotional and intellectual instability. My experience is that when you believe in God 100% you are man's comfort zone. It is a type of gratitude one can have as you emotionally and intellectually relax and know you understand what is real while others give expression of doubt and confusion. I have also discovered that this type of confidence angers some people because they lack that kind of assurance. But it is possible for everybody to have this same assurance and if you are interested, I am just arrogant enough to tell you how.
GadFly
On this very thread, your friend Taxan1 admitted that she overlooked my use of intellectual instability and sort of apologized for having viewed it out of context. She originally drew the same conclusions you have in your following remarks. She seemed to fixate on the word emotional and overlooked that I was the point of reference in that I was talking about my own experience. It had nothing to do with you as I would like to avoid you, if at all possible. You are just not the kind of person that I like to fellowship with.
With what I said and with what you said before us, who is trying to demean and belittle whom? It is the atheist that looks like a trouble maker to me. What do you think?
Who is insecure of their own position that they must twist things out of context to cover their crooked ways? You!
Who has barged into an otherwise friendly discussion and made an old woman's cat fight out of it? You!
Who has used the psycho-analytic method as a means to shame the innocent? You!
I expect you to be humbled enough to apologize to me and all other Christians that you have insulted with your bombastic words and miss use of facts as is so evidently pointed out here so clearly.
GadFly
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Well, readers, can anyone answer GadFly's questions? Who seems insecure here? Who was demeaning and belittling? Who barged into someone else's discussion? Who seems to be insulting other people to make themselves feel better? Who owes an apology here, if anyone?
GadFly: If you can find any instance whatsoever of me being factually inaccurate, I will happily withdraw my erroneous statement and apologize to everyone I misled by making it. Can you?
GadFly: If you can find any instance whatsoever of me being factually inaccurate, I will happily withdraw my erroneous statement and apologize to everyone I misled by making it. Can you?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Gadfly, if you honestly think that it's your faith and not your demeanor and behavior that draws fire, then why do so most of the other christians here get along just fine with most of the atheists here? You're the only person on this forum that I'm aware of that anyone has put on their ignore list. I really do think you have some pent up hostilities and insecurities that are preventing you from having rational, civilized conversations.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
btw GadFly, if you don't want to deal with me, you can just put me on ignore. I won't mind. Of course, you won't be able to respond to any of my arguments, either. But pick one, either deal with me or don't, don't reply and whine about it.
It seems to me that it has been so long that you have ever treated the truth of an argument with respect that you could never recognize a real person reasoning with you; therefore, I use the GadFly, who obviously tires of biting you, to enlighten you. You do not light up but swell up. You boast of putting me on your ignore list on another thread. What are you doing insulting me on this thread? If you can not discuss like a gentleman, please adjust your attitude or leave me alone. You like argument, you like confusion, you just don't like being put down. That is how ignorant you are, you do not know when to stop.:cigar::cigar::cigar:
You are so ignorant you do not even know that Autodidact is a woman. Now if you could stop insulting every atheist you see for a few minutes it would be nice.
That will be no change.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
In GadFly's defense, I believe that particular diatribe was aimed at mball.
- Status