a gnostic knows. I am an atheist.
I don't believe in a god apart from self and other as self, as God. All is god
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How many Theists are Atheists too?
I don't believe in a god apart from self and other as self, as God. All is god
stvdv
Veteran Member
True. Thought, words and deed in line with belief is the best
What specific action would you say makes one an Atheist?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Good question. 18% of Atheists believe in a higher power. So its an identify statement.
I dont know how many theists dont believe in God. I can only assume.
stvdv
Veteran Member
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Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Then you have nothing.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Ha ha! I reckon that Deism is individual to each Deist.Not easy with all the denominations. I guess Deism has relatively few denominations?
As many variations as there are Deists at present.
Yep....... the fun pranks and hell all come to us but through from Fate..... or Nature, if you like.Just recently I learned about Deism. This is a nice description, thanks.
So, if I understand it well, you miss out on all the fun of God playing pranks on us? But at least you also miss out on Hell and stuff
I perceive the representative of God here in this little Universe to be Mother Nature. Now I could cuddle up to a Mother, so long as She's in a good mood.
stvdv
Veteran Member
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Neuropteron
Active Member
Well, since an Atheist has no concept of being accountal to a creator, his actions are limited to boundaries that he established himself or that are imposed on him by society.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Hahaha.
I would say "you got nothing", that is something entirely different
If all you can do is quibble over wording, I'll count this as you bowing out of our little discussion.
stvdv
Veteran Member
True. Still he might do the same actions as a Theist. So, that would make him equal to a theist, true?
stvdv
Veteran Member
ecco
Veteran Member
stvdv
Veteran Member
Quite a claim you made
I thought you meant this particular thread; I must have misread your reply
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Say what you will.
But if you claim that you have evidence that can settle the issue once and for all, yet you refuse to produce this evidence, then I think you're just blowing smoke.
Neuropteron
Active Member
Hi,
It's not so much a question of being equal, because were all equal. I'ts more about accepting that life is substained by God. He requires us to live according to his standards. A person that doesn't believe that he exists is hardly going to subject himself to his directives thus depriving himself of the benefits God offers for those that do.
stvdv
Veteran Member
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Yeah, not sure about this. I think Atheists feel they know that God doesn't exist, Agnostics feel they do not know God exists, and Theists feel they know God exists. To feel you know something, like how you feel you know the sky exists maybe or the Sun exists (everyone says "they know", but really they can't truly ever verify much of anything for certain).
Now that I've broken some of those rules or notes (since we're messing around with words here anyway, which seems to be a sort of annoying and pointless exercise), I'll say that I'm a theist and that Atheists are on the right track and just one notch away from being the sort of theist that I am, because its important to do away with all the "gods" and absurd notions the way that they have, cleansing the palette, before approaching the Ultimate Power.
I believe in no God but God who is all the Gods, One God, who is not what people tend to use the word God for (whether Atheist or Theist) if they imagine some anthropomorphic thing, but rather that the One God is the One Reality generating all experience and is the chaotic and free singular intelligence behind every instance of anything ever and always is such. So, that would be by some standards an Atheist, but I'm a theist, since I don't think its really fair or right to mess around with the seeming intentions behind what that definition meant to say or represent.
stvdv
Veteran Member
I agree. You phrased it beautiful. Thanks
I agree, that Atheists seem to be on the right track ditching all the gods IMO, and absurd notions are usually not useful. I call it similar
I agree. For me it's also a pointless exercise. Unless God is universal well defined, I see no point in debating whether or not God exists
stvdv
Veteran Member
I agree. I was taught by a smart Master to never put God on the left side of the equation
, implying that debating on God is pointlessSo, I don't debate on this. I would like to know IF you feel a difference (see spoiler for my feeling about claims):
"1: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved"
"2: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved, for me"
"3: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved, for you"
"4: Jesus is the only way to be saved, for you"
"5: You go to Hell unless you accept Jesus"
* Freedom of Speech means "I 'can't' be forced to speak", so I never "need to give proof, even if making a claim" (it has consequences)
* IF using "I believe, I feel, I know, I think" the person shares his opinion ('I'-message), so he makes not a claim
* IF imposing one's opinion on others, one must give sufficient proof IF one wants them to accept it
= = =
IF someone on RF tells me "1: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved"
THEN I won't get upset, and I might ask "for you, for me or for all?" (no need for proof)
IF someone on RF tells me "2: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved, for me"
THEN I won't get upset, and I might say "I am glad for you" (no need for proof)
IF someone on RF tells me "3: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved, for you/all"
THEN I won't get upset, and I might say "Quite some pretentious knowledge" (no need for proof; he shares his opinion "I know....")
IF someone on RF tells me "4: Jesus is the only way to be saved, for you"
THEN I might act upset, and I might ask "Quite some pretentious claim" (needs proof*; he makes a clear claim AND imposes it on me)
IF someone on RF tells me "5: You go to Hell unless you accept Jesus"
THEN I might act upset, and I might say "You are rude, belittling and arrogant" (needs no proof; as I have self respect)
@stvdvRF
* IF using "I believe, I feel, I know, I think" the person shares his opinion ('I'-message), so he makes not a claim
* IF imposing one's opinion on others, one must give sufficient proof IF one wants them to accept it
= = =
IF someone on RF tells me "1: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved"
THEN I won't get upset, and I might ask "for you, for me or for all?" (no need for proof)
IF someone on RF tells me "2: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved, for me"
THEN I won't get upset, and I might say "I am glad for you" (no need for proof)
IF someone on RF tells me "3: I know that Jesus is the only way to be saved, for you/all"
THEN I won't get upset, and I might say "Quite some pretentious knowledge" (no need for proof; he shares his opinion "I know....")
IF someone on RF tells me "4: Jesus is the only way to be saved, for you"
THEN I might act upset, and I might ask "Quite some pretentious claim" (needs proof*; he makes a clear claim AND imposes it on me)
IF someone on RF tells me "5: You go to Hell unless you accept Jesus"
THEN I might act upset, and I might say "You are rude, belittling and arrogant" (needs no proof; as I have self respect)
@stvdvRF
