How materialists find meaning in life

[Sunstone]

I don't care about what your personal definition of growth is. It is only my definition that I find meaning in. That is, becoming more and more of a person and achieving great things in my life through enjoyment and being happy. I need to be happy and enjoy any given purpose in my life. Otherwise, I find no meaning in any of it and is nothing but miserable to me. So this is the reason why I would actually choose to sacrifice everything about me as a person and all personal growth (your definition of growth) for my personal definition of growth which would be living an eternal blissful life.

Sounds like you're espousing hedonism.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I wish to know if there is any way to completely wipe out my memory and start a whole new life in which I have my belief in the afterlife back. I don't care if wiping out my memory makes me mentally handicapped and/or if I lose my entire personality. All that matters to me is that I am happy in enjoying my life and hobbies and that I believe in a life afterwards in which I get to live in eternal bliss. A blissful life is my home life I used to live. This is my home. This is where I belong. I do not belong in this miserable life I am living now.

 

[outhouse]

I do not belong in this miserable life I am living now.

This is not a place to air out your dirty laundry.

 

[George-ananda]

I don't think there is that much of a differentiation when talking strictly about substance dualism in the way the video is addressing. It's not asking about if consciousness came first but rather how could consciousness exist with a undemonstrative and incredulously vague framework, even as a working definition let alone in function.

The eastern view is not vague for those that study it but may seem vague to those that haven't looked into its details. And yes, very little can be demonstrated to a materialist (except perhaps incredibly high odds against chance for certain phenomena) but relies primarily on those that claim perception of what is beyond the physical. I believe their claims dovetail nicely with one of mankind's great wisdom traditions.

Both Eastern and Western schools of theology posit a non-physical consciousness and attempts to back it with non-empirical sources, like NDEs, while simultaneously saying there is empirical evidence.

(Oxford Dictionary) Empirical: 1)based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic:

So, beyond the normal experiences are Empirical and the framework given by eastern/Vedic sources are supported by many different types of empirical evidence.

The first link in the website you gave me lists things as evidence like ouija boards,

So, a board is just a board but maybe what matters is people opening themselves up to connection with the non-physical planes. . I have heard more than enough events that this leads to things beyond imagination and group hallucination. It seems easy to dismiss without hearing the stronger cases.

mediums that were convicted frauds,

Certainly any serious student of the paranormal knows there are fraudulent mediums. But there are many high quality mediums that have never been found to be fraudulent and the literature reveals how determined the researchers were to detect any possible fraud (including professional magicians). There are also unproven allegations of fraud by determined materialists that are vehemently denied by other researchers.

and doctored voice tapes. .

Are you saying all EVP evidence is just doctored? That would be hard to believe if you seriously look into the subject with its history and present technological sophistication.

So I don't actually think the evidence does stand as such.

I think the combined weight of the evidence in conjunction with the eastern/Vedic model dovetail very clearly to provide the most reasonable worldview that has been presented for our consideration.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The eastern view is not vague for those that study it but may seem vague to those that haven't looked into its details. And yes, very little can be demonstrated to a materialist (except perhaps incredibly high odds against chance for certain phenomena) but relies primarily on those that claim perception of what is beyond the physical. I believe their claims dovetail nicely with one of mankind's great wisdom traditions.

(Oxford Dictionary) Empirical: 1)based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic:

So, beyond the normal experiences are Empirical and the framework given by eastern/Vedic sources are supported by many different types of empirical evidence.

So, a board is just a board but maybe what matters is people opening themselves up to connection with the non-physical planes. . I have heard more than enough events that this leads to things beyond imagination and group hallucination. It seems easy to dismiss without hearing the stronger cases.

Certainly any serious student of the paranormal knows there are fraudulent mediums. But there are many high quality mediums that have never been found to be fraudulent and the literature reveals how determined the researchers were to detect any possible fraud (including professional magicians). There are also unproven allegations of fraud by determined materialists that are vehemently denied by other researchers.

Are you saying all EVP evidence is just doctored? That would be hard to believe if you seriously look into the subject with its history and present technological sophistication.

I think the combined weight of the evidence in conjunction with the eastern/Vedic model dovetail very clearly to provide the most reasonable worldview that has been presented for our consideration.

To me, all of these reports require untestability, unfalsifiability, appeals to mystery, ambiguity of relevance, is heavily given to forgery or assumption (no I don't think all of the tapes are forgeries, I think most probably are, with some that don't actually have voices but other ambient noises assumed to be voices.)
Personally I think all mediums I've witnessed are frauds, and haven't been given much more than cold reading as evidenced for their claims. Personally I think all ouija board use I've witnessed is group consensus or self-leading. Personally I think all NDE stories I've heard are hallucinatory or fabricated (such as Is Heaven for Real). And as much as you may think it's because I'm not giving the research a fair chance, I think it what's being required for 'a fair chance' is causeless acceptance. Like the Turkish ark or Bigfoot tracks.
In any case, there's plenty of skeptic books out there about these subjects I could recommend if you want, like anything by Dr. Terence Hines on the subject. There's also more videos by the author linked earlier which goes further in supernatural, superstitions and the breakdown of evidences.

 

[outhouse]

But there are many high quality mediums that have never been found to be fraudulent

There has never been a so called medium who HAS EVER been found credible.

There is no such thing as a high quality medium

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

I would like to talk about materialism which is the whole notion held by many scientists. It is the whole idea that the brain produces consciousness and that once that dies out, you forever remain dead. There is no God and no afterlife. They say that one can have much meaning in their lives with no need for a belief in a god and an afterlife.

I don't see it that way at all. When I look at my mother or any other innocent person whom I admire and love, I see a person. I see a soul that can never be reduced to mere biology. It is something eternal so that when the biology dies off, the soul can live on and become one with the universe for all eternity.

But the very fact that this is not the case since I myself am a materialist, then I see the very relationship I have with my family and all others as being reduced to nothing more than biology. It doesn't matter what purpose we have or who we are in life. This is a short life that only reduces us all to nothing in the end and nothing more than biology.

So I see no reason to help others, care for others, or anything since that is all they are. Why not let everyone rot away since that is all they are in the first place? They are all nothing more than decaying meat (biology). The only thing that makes you somebody is living on forever. As long as you are forever dead, then you are literally nobody at all since you are gone for good.

So the only way to be the greatest person in life is living on forever since the amount of "somebody" lasts for all eternity. But the fact that you are somebody only for a temporary amount of time in this life, then that makes you nowhere near as much as a person.

Death is a sacrifice. But one should never sacrifice his/herself if it means being dead for all eternity even if it is for others. This is because you have reduced yourself to nothing at all in the end. A person who just wastes themselves away like that is literally nothing in my eyes. I will look at this person as nothing since that is who they really are. They made themselves nothing in the end. Sure, it might of been for others and making the world a better place. So these things are all good. But as for the person themselves, I will look at him/her as being nothing and will have utter scorn toward him/her.

So, in conclusion, it is all about never dying and living on forever. The preservation of the self since that is the only thing that makes you somebody. Therefore, for me, life is all about living in eternal bliss, no suffering, and just enjoying my life and hobbies for all eternity and helping others who also live such lives. If such a life existed, then the relationship with my family and everything else would have the greatest joy and meaning since it is all now in a different context.

It is in the context of not being reduced to mere biology that will forever decay in the end and not being hopelessly beaten down by all the suffering in this life. Life, to me, is all about being UP. That is, living on forever, being up and running in a really good mood, and having no suffering and no depression in life beating you down. As long as you are DOWN in life in which you have much suffering only to forever die in the end, then that is both a lesser person and a lesser life.

Assuming you have a perfectly usable physical body I think your being a little glib about things what about an orphan ?.

 

[George-ananda]

To me, all of these reports require untestability, unfalsifiability, appeals to mystery, ambiguity of relevance, is heavily given to forgery or assumption (no I don't think all of the tapes are forgeries, I think most probably are, with some that don't actually have voices but other ambient noises assumed to be voices.)
Personally I think all mediums I've witnessed are frauds, and haven't been given much more than cold reading as evidenced for their claims. Personally I think all ouija board use I've witnessed is group consensus or self-leading. Personally I think all NDE stories I've heard are hallucinatory or fabricated (such as Is Heaven for Real). And as much as you may think it's because I'm not giving the research a fair chance, I think it what's being required for 'a fair chance' is causeless acceptance. Like the Turkish ark or Bigfoot tracks.

Well I don't know how well you have looked at the strongest cases from intelligent and cautious researchers, but I see we will have to disagree on the quality of the evidence.

In any case, there's plenty of skeptic books out there about these subjects I could recommend if you want, like anything by Dr. Terence Hines on the subject. There's also more videos by the author linked earlier which goes further in supernatural, superstitions and the breakdown of evidences.

As this is a subject I am very interested and well read in, I am already very acquainted with skepticism and their arguments. Generally, I feel they make the best arguments they can muster in defense of a worldview (atheist-materialism) they have become attached to.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Well I don't know how well you have looked at the strongest cases from intelligent and cautious researchers, but I see we will have to disagree on the quality of the evidence.

As this is a subject I am very interested and well read in, I am already very acquainted with skepticism and their arguments. Generally, I feel they make the best arguments they can muster in defense of a worldview (atheist-materialism) they have become attached to.

Agree to disagree it is.

 

[outhouse]

As this is a subject I am very interested and well read in, I am already very acquainted with skepticism and their arguments. Generally, I feel they make the best arguments they can muster in defense of a worldview (atheist-materialism) they have become attached to.

We do not need an argument against your position.

What you posit is just unsubstantiated and has never been proven as credible by anyone at anytime because your arguments have no credibility

 

[Milton Platt]

I would like to talk about materialism which is the whole notion held by many scientists. It is the whole idea that the brain produces consciousness and that once that dies out, you forever remain dead. There is no God and no afterlife. They say that one can have much meaning in their lives with no need for a belief in a god and an afterlife.

I don't see it that way at all. When I look at my mother or any other innocent person whom I admire and love, I see a person. I see a soul that can never be reduced to mere biology. It is something eternal so that when the biology dies off, the soul can live on and become one with the universe for all eternity.

But the very fact that this is not the case since I myself am a materialist, then I see the very relationship I have with my family and all others as being reduced to nothing more than biology. It doesn't matter what purpose we have or who we are in life. This is a short life that only reduces us all to nothing in the end and nothing more than biology.

So I see no reason to help others, care for others, or anything since that is all they are. Why not let everyone rot away since that is all they are in the first place? They are all nothing more than decaying meat (biology). The only thing that makes you somebody is living on forever. As long as you are forever dead, then you are literally nobody at all since you are gone for good.

So the only way to be the greatest person in life is living on forever since the amount of "somebody" lasts for all eternity. But the fact that you are somebody only for a temporary amount of time in this life, then that makes you nowhere near as much as a person.

Death is a sacrifice. But one should never sacrifice his/herself if it means being dead for all eternity even if it is for others. This is because you have reduced yourself to nothing at all in the end. A person who just wastes themselves away like that is literally nothing in my eyes. I will look at this person as nothing since that is who they really are. They made themselves nothing in the end. Sure, it might of been for others and making the world a better place. So these things are all good. But as for the person themselves, I will look at him/her as being nothing and will have utter scorn toward him/her.

So, in conclusion, it is all about never dying and living on forever. The preservation of the self since that is the only thing that makes you somebody. Therefore, for me, life is all about living in eternal bliss, no suffering, and just enjoying my life and hobbies for all eternity and helping others who also live such lives. If such a life existed, then the relationship with my family and everything else would have the greatest joy and meaning since it is all now in a different context.

It is in the context of not being reduced to mere biology that will forever decay in the end and not being hopelessly beaten down by all the suffering in this life. Life, to me, is all about being UP. That is, living on forever, being up and running in a really good mood, and having no suffering and no depression in life beating you down. As long as you are DOWN in life in which you have much suffering only to forever die in the end, then that is both a lesser person and a lesser life.

Sounds more like depression than materialism.......