How much does Fear play in religion????

[Bird123]

Trust me, it's entirely possible. When your church doesn't even believe in the traditional "Hell," it's kind of hard for anyone to preach Hellfire. For us, it's not a matter of going to Hell. It's a matter of wanting what I might refer to as "sanctification" as opposed to "justification." (We don't actually use those exact words all that often. I just used them because I thought that people reading this might be able to relate to them. If necessary, I can elaborate.)

I'm not sure if you read my last post correctly. I don't fear having my beliefs questioned, nor am I afraid of being presented with a perspective I've never considered before. I grew up being encouraged to question and never being discouraged from doubting someone's words if they didn't ring true to me. What my was trying to say in my prior answer is that I have a pretty much zero-tolerance policy towards rude people, people who can't discuss theological differences without getting nasty. I'm a whole lot more patient than I used to be, but my patience only extends so far. I'm not afraid of jerks. I'm afraid for jerks. I wouldn't want to find myself in their shoes when their rude behavior finally presses one too many of my buttons.

So when they press your buttons, what do you do?? Give them a hug or hate??

 

[Bird123]

There are two great human fears which religion exploits. Fear of death, and fear of being alone.

Fear of being alone??? Hmmm??? I guess those who really fear to be alone will do anything to prevent it. Good call.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Fear of being alone??? Hmmm??? I guess those who really fear to be alone will do anything to prevent it. Good call.

And both are evolutionary; the first from self-awareness and empathy derived from simulating the mind of another, the second, older than and likely adding to the first, from being social animals.

 

[Katzpur]

So when they press your buttons, what do you do?? Give them a hug or hate??

LOL! I actually do try to "turn the other cheek," but once both cheeks start getting bruised and bloody, I have been known to retaliate. I consider myself to be a pretty patient person, and I'm totally fine with people having opinions that differ from mine, as long as they can be respectful. There are really just a couple of kinds of people I can't deal with: self-righteous people and rude people.

 

[Katzpur]

Fear of being alone??? Hmmm??? I guess those who really fear to be alone will do anything to prevent it. Good call.

I am actually not at all afraid to die, but I'm really terrified of growing old. Maybe that's because I anticipate that lonliness will be a part of it.

 

[BruceDLimber]

There is only one reason beliefs exist. Beliefs are the patch that fills the gap when all the facts are not known.

Like it or not, beliefs are important, and indeed CRITICAL when evaluating non-objective questions!

And I further put it to you that anyone who disagrees with this has NO BUSINESS marrying because there's no objective way to prove a person loves someone else and isn't simply "acting" for whatever unrelated (possibly nefarious) reasons.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

[to a third party] So there are never any Hell fire sermons at your church???

You should check out the Baha'i Faith:

We have no sermons at all--indeed, no clergy!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Bird123]

I am actually not at all afraid to die, but I'm really terrified of growing old. Maybe that's because I anticipate that lonliness will be a part of it.

As communications get better and better, there will always be someone out there to interact with. If not in person, the internet has an endless supply of people and places. If that isn't enough, look around. There is always someone out there who needs your help. Share your wisdom. After all it took a lifetime to acquire. Be a stepping stone for youth.

 

[Bird123]

Like it or not, beliefs are important, and indeed CRITICAL when evaluating non-objective questions!

And I further put it to you that anyone who disagrees with this has NO BUSINESS marrying because there's no objective way to prove a person loves someone else and isn't simply "acting" for whatever unrelated (possibly nefarious) reasons.

Peace,

Bruce

Isn't true love really about giving not getting???? Shouldn't love be unconditional??? There is no danger in getting married with this view.

 

[Bird123]

You should check out the Baha'i Faith:

We have no sermons at all--indeed, no clergy!

Peace,

Bruce

When I get some spare time, I might do just that. This might sound funny to you but once you have discovered God, all the religions seem to be lacking. I am not looking for a good feeling. I search for knowledge and wisdom that spans the ages. God works on multiple levels upon multiple views. This requires lots and lots of thinking for an ant like myself. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. How can we miss seeing so much??? When you think you see it all, there is usually more.

 

[gnostic]

Job was supposed to be the most pious man of his time. But not once was his pious ever associate with "love"; it was fear that made him pious and upright.

Even God said it is fear in Job 1:8:

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."

And when God did speak to Job, it wasn't to answer any of question, but to intimidate and cower Job into submission with his powers.

And what's more frightening then a storm.

Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm.

You would only use intimidation if you want the other party to fear you.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Isn't true love really about giving not getting???? Shouldn't love be unconditional???

I don't deny that, but my point holds:

Like it or not, it's entirely subjective!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

When I get some spare time, I might do just that.

I wish you good hunting!

The sites below may prove helpful for starters:

• www.baha'i-library.org (click "Writings" for our scriptures),
• www.reference.bahai.org (this site is multilingual), and
• www.bahaistudy.org (this site also has videos and talking books).

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[Bird123]

Job was supposed to be the most pious man of his time. But not once was his pious ever associate with "love"; it was fear that made him pious and upright.

Even God said it is fear in Job 1:8:




And when God did speak to Job, it wasn't to answer any of question, but to intimidate and cower Job into submission with his powers.

And what's more frightening then a storm.



You would only use intimidation if you want the other party to fear you.

Who will do more for you?? Someone who really really loves you or someone who really really fears you?? Hmmm??? Is the answer really that hard??? Be careful for the person who fears you will cut off your head at the first chance. What will the one who really really loves you do?? Anything and everything for you happily. Now, which is the most intelligent way to do things? Fear or Love?? Someone with the ability to create universes has to be highly intelligent. Which do you think God is doing?? The answer is simple. Mankind has lots of growing to do before they will understand then change for the better.

 

[Bird123]

I don't deny that, but my point holds:

Like it or not, it's entirely subjective!

Peace,

Bruce

Your point holds only when you are not loving unconditionally. In this case regardless of your choices or actions, conditions for your lessons surround you until, in time, you learn that the only answer is Unconditional Love.

 

[gnostic]

Who will do more for you?? Someone who really really loves you or someone who really really fears you?? Hmmm??? Is the answer really that hard??? Be careful for the person who fears you will cut off your head at the first chance. What will the one who really really loves you do?? Anything and everything for you happily. Now, which is the most intelligent way to do things? Fear or Love?? Someone with the ability to create universes has to be highly intelligent. Which do you think God is doing?? The answer is simple. Mankind has lots of growing to do before they will understand then change for the better.

From reading the book of Job, I'd say fear.

It was fear that made the most pious man of his time. It was fear that got him to lose everything because of the game God played. It was fear when god intimidated him with the "no answers" but 3 chapters of god bragging about his immense power. And it was still fear that kept his pious intact with new wealth and new children.

Show me that I am wrong about Job myth.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Your point holds only when you are not loving unconditionally.

Not true because that's still a subjective--not an objective--decision!

Very simply, love is something for which objective evidence isn't available.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Bird123]

From reading the book of Job, I'd say fear.

It was fear that made the most pious man of his time. It was fear that got him to lose everything because of the game God played. It was fear when god intimidated him with the "no answers" but 3 chapters of god bragging about his immense power. And it was still fear that kept his pious intact with new wealth and new children.

Show me that I am wrong about Job myth.

Stories will always be stories. Stories can be shaped at the writer's will. Where do most rulers that rule with fear end up???

 

[Bird123]

Not true because that's still a subjective--not an objective--decision!

Very simply, love is something for which objective evidence isn't available.

Peace,

Bruce

It will always be subjective for those who do not have total knowledge and understanding of all the views. With all views, one can be objective. If you really understood love unconditionally, you could compare all the views. Without unconditional love in the picture, you are right. Since unconditional love is so very rare, you are right. Perhaps it's time you work on loving unconditionally. Everyone around you will love you for it!!

 

[gnostic]

Stories will always be stories. Stories can be shaped at the writer's will.

Of course. I am not saying it is not a story.

Where do most rulers that rule with fear end up???

It depends. Some continued to rule till they die. Some will lose, and possibly in the process lose their life.

Ruler who rules with fear, in general, fear to lose their power.

From what I am saying, God rule with fear, just like any human tyrant, as much, or more so than with love. I gave the example of the Book of Job, to demonstrate that fear, not love, being the factor of Job's piousness.

If God used fear, like the fear of eternal punishment and imprisonment in hell, then this god is not worthy of worship. PERIOD!