How much does Fear play in religion????

[Tom Terrific]

Do religions scare you into believing? I have a friend who doesn't really believe in what religion teaches. He stays with them just in case. He is covering himself from going to Hell. Is this really what God wants?? There are other kinds of fear. Do you fear you don't fit in when everyone starts talking about religion?? People can be judgmental. Do you fear some will be hateful or mean to you because of your views?? A Being capable of creating universes must be very smart. Would such a Being need to use fear to control people or is it really mankind creating all that fear??? There is not much love and kindness in Fear. Couldn't possibly be God!!

I believe the fear comes from us, not from the divine.

I have found that spirituality boils down to surrendering to the divine -- not in obedience, but in love: opening up to communion with the divine. When this happens, your conscious mind fears losing control; and this is what happens, more or less -- not because control is taken from you by the divine, but because something deeper within you than your conscious, reasoning mind -- your soul, if you will -- recognizes the divine and runs to meet it.

I suspect all fear that we experience in religion is related to this basic dread of loss of control, even fear of eternal damnation. When you are in love with the divine, when you have that relationship, when you are swept up in that ecstasy, words lose their meaning and their power to terrify. You can experience a love so profound that even the idea of eternal damnation is meaningless, so long as you are with the One you love.

 

[BruceDLimber]

[Love] will always be subjective for those who do not have total knowledge and understanding of all the views.

IOW, for someone more than human.

Q. E. D., and I rest my case.

Bruce

 

[Bird123]

Not true because that's still a subjective--not an objective--decision!

Very simply, love is something for which objective evidence isn't available.

Peace,

Bruce

I guess that depends on what you consider evidence and how you define love. Actions speak louder than words. Actions are evidence of something.

 

[Bird123]

Of course. I am not saying it is not a story.



It depends. Some continued to rule till they die. Some will lose, and possibly in the process lose their life.

Ruler who rules with fear, in general, fear to lose their power.

From what I am saying, God rule with fear, just like any human tyrant, as much, or more so than with love. I gave the example of the Book of Job, to demonstrate that fear, not love, being the factor of Job's piousness.

If God used fear, like the fear of eternal punishment and imprisonment in hell, then this god is not worthy of worship. PERIOD!

God is not using fear. Mankind and mankind's stories and religions are doing that. God's system consists of only two things. 1, Unconditional love 2. Education.

 

[Bird123]

I believe the fear comes from us, not from the divine.

I have found that spirituality boils down to surrendering to the divine -- not in obedience, but in love: opening up to communion with the divine. When this happens, your conscious mind fears losing control; and this is what happens, more or less -- not because control is taken from you by the divine, but because something deeper within you than your conscious, reasoning mind -- your soul, if you will -- recognizes the divine and runs to meet it.

I suspect all fear that we experience in religion is related to this basic dread of loss of control, even fear of eternal damnation. When you are in love with the divine, when you have that relationship, when you are swept up in that ecstasy, words lose their meaning and their power to terrify. You can experience a love so profound that even the idea of eternal damnation is meaningless, so long as you are with the One you love.

Yes, one discovers God isn't what religion and mankind have been teaching.

 

[Bird123]

IOW, for someone more than human.

Q. E. D., and I rest my case.

Bruce

Good answer, however God's system here on Earth is teaching us all to love unconditionally. Can you see?? Some lessons do take alot of time. Mankind can be stubborn and willful, however free will is a major part of the system. Without it, no learning would really occur. Education does take more than one mere lifetime on Earth.

 

[gnostic]

God is not using fear. Mankind and mankind's stories and religions are doing that. God's system consists of only two things. 1, Unconditional love 2. Education.

And how do you know what God is using, doing or thinking?

But of course, it is man-made stories. Didn't say it wasn't.

But the only sources about the people involved, like Job, and about God, comes from these stories. Whether you believe the stories or not, is a matter for each one to decide.

But judging from the story of Job, fear was the factor to Job's piousness and uprightness. And judging by the 3 chapters of God claiming his power to do this or that, it can only be said that God was trying to intimidate Job. If God truly wanted to educate Job, then he should have answer Job's question, not brag about his power. Why is so hard to answer the "why?"

Can you give me quotes in the Book of Job that it wasn't about fear, but love and education?

 

[Orias]

Do religions scare you into believing?

Not all religions use fear as a tool for manipulation. Though many do overly abuse their own flocks.

He is covering himself from going to Hell. Is this really what God wants??

Not mine

There are other kinds of fear. Do you fear you don't fit in when everyone starts talking about religion??

Of course not. I have a mind of my own.

People can be judgmental. Do you fear some will be hateful or mean to you because of your views??

I don't fear that, I expect it. It just goes to show that those who close their Minds to Aspects other than One only succumb to unprudence.

A Being capable of creating universes must be very smart. Would such a Being need to use fear to control people or is it really mankind creating all that fear??? There is not much love and kindness in Fear. Couldn't possibly be God!!

Such a "Being" could only be the sheperds of such religions. "God" can be defined as the entirety of existence and beyond, simply nothing more.

 

[bob gill]

hell inthe bible is only symbolic

 

[BruceDLimber]

Actions are evidence of something.

And NO evidence that the individual in question isn't acting (for whatever possibly-nefarious reason).

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

Education does take more than one mere lifetime on Earth.

But given that we all get only one pass (i.e., one chance) in this life, it's most fortunate that we can continue learning in the Next Life!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Bird123]

And how do you know what God is using, doing or thinking?

But of course, it is man-made stories. Didn't say it wasn't.

But the only sources about the people involved, like Job, and about God, comes from these stories. Whether you believe the stories or not, is a matter for each one to decide.

But judging from the story of Job, fear was the factor to Job's piousness and uprightness. And judging by the 3 chapters of God claiming his power to do this or that, it can only be said that God was trying to intimidate Job. If God truly wanted to educate Job, then he should have answer Job's question, not brag about his power. Why is so hard to answer the "why?"

Can you give me quotes in the Book of Job that it wasn't about fear, but love and education?

Why do you rely on stories and books from mankind for your total information about God? Have they taught you that you must go through them to find God or that no one can find God??? Sometimes those who search find what they search for. Perhaps you should start on your journey to discovery. Isn't it about time to discover the truth for yourself?? I can point but the actions and choices are all yours. How can you just accept your holy book without question. If you question, it would force you to find answers. Everything about God does add up. Can you really say that about any religion or holy book??

 

[Bird123]

Not all religions use fear as a tool for manipulation. Though many do overly abuse their own flocks.



Not mine



Of course not. I have a mind of my own.



I don't fear that, I expect it. It just goes to show that those who close their Minds to Aspects other than One only succumb to unprudence.



Such a "Being" could only be the sheperds of such religions. "God" can be defined as the entirety of existence and beyond, simply nothing more.

Your definition that God can be defined as the entirety of existence and beyond, might technically fit but seems very lacking in the face of reality.

 

[Bird123]

hell inthe bible is only symbolic

Symbolic??? A rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

[Bird123]

And NO evidence that the individual in question isn't acting (for whatever possibly-nefarious reason).

Bruce

It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. It's what you do that counts. You will show God and the world what lessons you need to learn through your actions. That is for everyone. Actions can including acting.With enough knowledge, that too can be seen. Evidence is all around us. Most can not seem to see----they will in time!!

 

[waitasec]

hell inthe bible is only symbolic

symbolic of what?
i mean really, do you honestly profess the symbolism of hell is not to inflict fear...
some religions wouldn't be able to survive with out fear

 

[Bird123]

But given that we all get only one pass (i.e., one chance) in this life, it's most fortunate that we can continue learning in the Next Life!

Peace,

Bruce

Indeed, there seems to be an almost endless supply of things to learn. What is the first thing a wise man realizes once he becomes wise???? THe first thing a wise man realizes once he becomes wise is that there is so much more to learn.>>>>>>> I'm afraid it will take Eons before I can be smart! Even the tip of that iceberg looks large.

 

[bob gill]

hell is symbolic of mans common grave. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 says "for the living are conscious that they will die ;but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all,neither do they anymore have wages,because the remembrance of themhas been forgotten 6 Also their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished,and they have no portion in anything that has to be done under the sun.10 all that your hand finds to do ,do with your very power ,for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in hell, the place to which you are going"

 

[bob gill]

certain religions teach that hell is a place of torment it is not a bible teaching jesus was even spoken of being in hell fot 3 days clearly then it must be symbolic of mans grave

 

[gnostic]

Why do you rely on stories and books from mankind for your total information about God?

Because I like reading.

Have they taught you that you must go through them to find God or that no one can find God??? Sometimes those who search find what they search for.

No. in any case, I am not looking for God.

Perhaps you should start on your journey to discovery. Isn't it about time to discover the truth for yourself?? I can point but the actions and choices are all yours.

I am trying to discover the truth. But the truth I am searching for, is not the same as your own.

How can you just accept your holy book without question. If you question, it would force you to find answers. Everything about God does add up. Can you really say that about any religion or holy book??

First, it is not my holy book.

Second, I'm always questioning. Sometimes my questions irk some members, and I can't help that.