How much does the Christian God really love us?

[free spirit]

ok, but what does this have anything to do with the ideal that religious faith has been a stick in the wheel of progress?
if "holymen" where beyond the laws of the land, heretics would be stoned to death today...
and we would still be subjected to disease...

True holymen's faith is based on compassion and knowlege, so if they do what you say they are not holy at all and it is false faith.

 

[Enoughie]

I was not there at the beginning, but facts can be and are fabricated by men, On the other hand the awe of creation is there for everyone to see.

Exactly. The awe of creation is there for everyone to see, and science can learn about it, and determine certain facts about it. These facts can then be examined by others and can be substantiated, or discarded. That is how science works.

Yet, you choose to believe the stories of Middle Eastern peasants from 1500 BC. Who had very little understanding of the world around them. If anything is liable to fabrication, it is these stories. These are the myths that make up your Bible. These myths are inconsistent with what we know about creation, yet you choose to believe such unsubstantiated fabrications on no evidence whatsoever.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom

 

[Enoughie]

Animals have also a soul given to them by God, a lesser soul than human neverdeless a soul capable to respond.

How about bacteria? Do bacteria have souls? How about flowers?

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by look3467
Dear friend, you ought to rethink about the consequences of that statement.

If God subjected us to vanity, how suppose we could do anything about it?

ipatetical question

If God by the same token subjects us to salvation, can we still do anything about it?

Either way, it is all God's doing and the best thing we can do is accept His unconditional love despite our own selfish desires.

God did not subject us to salvation, He reversed what Adam did so we now can choose

By so doing, our selfishness becomes His desires and shall live then in Him!

Blessings, AJ

If I understand what you are saying it is not correct. Repentance is the key here.

 

[Enoughie]

We were made in the image of God and as such we behave as gods, we explore, we create, we long to be musters of the universe: why, because that is the destiny of the children of God.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom

 

[waitasec]

True holymen's faith is based on compassion and knowlege, so if they do what you say they are not holy at all and it is false faith.

show me one.

 

[free spirit]

show me one.

They are in the world, as I am in the world but I cannot sound my own trumpet.
So I will point you to the one that they nailed to a cross.

 

[waitasec]

True holymen's faith is based on compassion and knowlege,

show me one.

They are in the world, as I am in the world but I cannot sound my own trumpet.

why can you not provide one example?

 

[free spirit]

why can you not provide one example?

Because as they the false faith believers had the Lord of glory nailed to a cross, they would again treat shamefully those of the true faith.
I do not fear you because you are an umbeliever, therefore you do not care what I say. But I fear those that have a false faith because my teaching exposes them as hypocrites, and that would make them mad.

 

[waitasec]

Because as they the false faith believers had the Lord of glory nailed to a cross, they would again treat shamefully those of the true faith.

from what i gather there is no true faith...
because no one has yet to show how true faith can make a difference.

I fear those that have a false faith because my teaching exposes them as hypocrites, and that would make them mad.

your teachings? this is getting interesting.
are you the only person you consider to be holy? if so, what can you do that other people cannot? something obvious must be evidence for this holiness you have attained.

 

[free spirit]

from what i gather there is no true faith...
because no one has yet to show how true faith can make a difference.



your teachings? this is getting interesting.
are you the only person you consider to be holy? if so, what can you do that other people cannot? something obvious must be evidence for this holiness you have attained.

No there are many that consider themself holy: like the pope, the dealy lama take your pick.
as for myself the understanding that I have beeing given of the scriptures makes me different from other believers.

 

[slowbreath]

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

i like this statement! it can be used to end so many arguements......this statement is a keeper.
good input Enough!

 

[waitasec]

No there are many that consider themself holy: like the pope, the dealy lama take your pick.
as for myself the understanding that I have beeing given of the scriptures makes me different from other believers.

so what makes you different is your understanding, that's it?



the pope, is an evil and vile human being perpetuating the idea that condoms are worse that AIDS...

as for the dalai lama, he presents himself as a champion of human rights and defender of religious freedom while inflicting terrible human rights abuses on his own people...

 

[Enoughie]

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

i like this statement! it can be used to end so many arguements......this statement is a keeper.
good input Enough!

Credit to Christopher Hitchens.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom

 

[Tareh]

Love.. Likely not.. He probably like's those who serve him well..

 

[free spirit]

so what makes you different is your understanding, that's it?

That's it? The opposit to understanding is ignorance: It's a big difference, with understanding you know what to do, and were you are going.



the pope, is an evil and vile human being perpetuating the idea that condoms are worse that AIDS...

Obviously condoms play a vital part in your life.

as for the dalai lama, he presents himself as a champion of human rights and defender of religious freedom while inflicting terrible human rights abuses on his own people...

Well... I can see that only you and I are the Holy ones

 

[Enoughie]

Obviously condoms play a vital part in your life.

I understand you prefer abortions?

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life offers a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma. This philosophy has a firm foundation in nature, science, and reason, and it is centered on the core values of honesty, generosity, equality, and freedom

 

[Luminous]

True holymen's faith is based on compassion and knowlege, so if they do what you say they are not holy at all and it is false faith.

That you would dare speak for God seems rather vain to me. :sad:
How much knowledge does anyone actually have?
NONE.

faith is merely based on self-congratulation...based on vanity.

 

[free spirit]

I don't think someone with a true conscience should respond to this thread. It is definity deliberity meant to distract and undermise ,( maybe test ) the faith of the faithfull.

So true, but God send rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. But yes I am out of here.

 

[Enoughie]

I don't think someone with a true conscience should respond to this thread. It is definity deliberity meant to distract and undermise ,( maybe test ) the faith of the faithfull.

You are correct. The purpose of this thread was to test the foundation of the Christian religion. Any worldview that has a solid foundation in nature and reality does not need to fear scrutiny. On the contrary - it should welcome scrutiny. Scrutiny gives such worldview a chance to demonstrate the strength of its foundation.
However, the Christian religion - like most religions - is built like a house of cards. Any light breeze can easily knock it over. Any scientific discovery, any historical finding, any philosophical argument can easily challenge the foundation of Christianity. That is because the foundation of Christianity is credulity, wishful thinking, and self-delusion. The only way to protect your religion is through ignorance - as you've demonstrated in your post. You prefer to ignore this thread instead of trying to refute its claims.

This makes your nickname very misleading. You're not a Truth hunter. You merely seek comfort in self-delusion.