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How Odd Is Putin's Russia?

TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
Russia did not want any part of Ukraine. It just wanted Ukraine to keep away from NATO and EU embrace. But Ukraine did the opposite and got the Russian response. Russia has the same problems with other countries too, and you know it.
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And Russia doesn't want that because it wants the freedom to bully those countries around as it sees fit, and attack them to conquer them and rebuild their soviet empire. Meaning, that all those former soviet states (who haven't forgotten how horrible life under russian authoritarian rule was) have very good incentive to try and seek protections from such bullying. Joining NATO is a good way to do that.

This is why these countries so desperately want to join.
Nobody asks them to join. It's those countries themselves that are begging for it.

And as you actually implicitly acknowledged, they have every reason to try and do so.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
TagliatelliMonster said:
Why do you feel like it's ukraine that should roll over and surrender to the will of a bully?
Why aren't you condemning the bully?
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I have never said anything like that. Only that Ukraine should have been careful in tilting towards West.
The bully has its own bully, trying to corner him - NATO, US.
TagliatelliMonster said:
They didn't "get a war". Rather, a war was forced upon them by an invading army.
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Yeah, and what was the reason? Being too close to West.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
I have never said anything like that.
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You are clearly implying it. All you do is talk about how Ukraine should buckle down, stop fighting, give Russia what it wants.
Not once have I seen you say that Russia should retreat its army out of the sovereign country it invaded.

Aupmanyav said:
Only that Ukraine should have been careful in tilting towards West.
The bully has its own bully, trying to corner him - NATO, US.
Click to expand...

Bullocks.

Aupmanyav said:
Yeah, and what was the reason? Being too close to West.
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Why can't a sovereign country like Ukraine decide for itself who it wants to be close with?
See? You're doing it again.

How about some respect for the sovereign decisions of a country?
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
That will be a primary condition, if ever peace comes to Ukraine.
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Yeah... gotta give the bully what he wants.

This is like saying that there would have been "peace" in Europe in 1941, if only everybody would have allowed the Nazi's to roll over western Europe without trying to fight back.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
TagliatelliMonster said:
All you do is talk about how Ukraine should buckle down, stop fighting, give Russia what it wants.
Not once have I seen you say that Russia should retreat its army out of the sovereign country it invaded.

Why can't a sovereign country like Ukraine decide for itself who it wants to be close with?
How about some respect for the sovereign decisions of a country?
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No, I do not say that Ukraine should buckle down, but to end the war peace talks are necessary. If Ukraine thinks that it can make Russia retreat from its territories without much harm, then it is OK and they may continue the war.
Don't make too much of a country's sovereinty. Countries need to act according to circumstances, like US (and India too) have not yet recognized Taiwan as an independent country.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
TagliatelliMonster said:
Yeah... gotta give the bully what he wants.
This is like saying that there would have been "peace" in Europe in 1941, if only everybody would have allowed the Nazi's to roll over western Europe without trying to fight back.
Click to expand...
Don't. Continue to fight the war and make the Windmill see dust.
BTW, Modi is visiting Poland and Ukraine this Friday.

"India’s stance – seeking close ties with both the West and Russia – is shared by many non-Western nations that have expressed disapproval of Russia’s war but reject what they see as a binary choice between two competing camps."
www.aljazeera.com

India’s Modi to visit Ukraine on Friday, weeks after trip to Russia

India’s government has sought to balance close ties with both Russia and Western allies.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
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Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
TagliatelliMonster said:
That had nothing to do with NATO or the US and everything with the Ukrainian people. :shrug:
The next "victim" of Russian brutality who in your opinion shouldn't try to seek protection against such brutality, you mean?
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Not many countries on Russian western border have remained outside NATO. But how would I know Putin's or any other Russian ruler's mind?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
No, I do not say that Ukraine should buckle down, but to end the war peace talks are necessary.
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Sure.

But as I said multiple times already: both sides need to be willing to talk and be reasonable about it.
Last time Ukraine delegations spoke with Russian delegations, the russians tried to poison them. :shrug:
 
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