How Odd Is Putin's Russia?

[TagliatelliMonster]

Then let it be, let them fight it out till the end. Que sera sera.

No. Just like I would not "let it be" and stand by and watch how a bully in the street will beat up some victim.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What can we do? It is not possible for India to severe relations with Russia. Arms, oil, nuclear power stations, etc.
However, Modi will meet Zelensky on (perhaps) August 24 in his visit to Poland and Ukraine.
Let us see if there is a talk on peace.

 

[Revoltingest]

What can we do? It is not possible for India to severe relations with Russia. Arms, oil, nuclear power stations, etc.
However, Modi will meet Zelensky on (perhaps) August 24 in his visit to Poland and Ukraine.
Let us see if there is a talk on peace.

Is Russia necessary for India's survival?
If not, then India is indirectly supporting
Putin's invasion of Ukraine in exchange
for economic benefit.
I can understand that choice. But it must
be recognized as a choice, with full
knowledge that it enables the invasion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is Russia necessary for India's survival?

Yeah, Russia is giving us arms and technology which US denies us or will give us at a costly price. We have two nuclear-capable belligerent nations as our neighbors - China and Pakistan. We need Russian assistance to be better prepared against their misadventures. We buy arms from European nations too, France, Italy, etc. We are a peace-loving nation. We wish no wars anywhere in the world. We have so much to do to uplift our poor people.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, Russia is giving us arms and technology which US denies us or will give us at a costly price. We have two nuclear-capable belligerent nations as our neighbors - China and Pakistan. We need Russian assistance to be better prepared against their misadventures. We buy arms from European nations too, France, Italy, etc. We are a peace-loving nation. We wish no wars anywhere in the world. We have so much to do to uplift our poor people.

You wish no wars.
Yet you finance Russia's war on Ukraine.
That must be a difficult decision.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is. Indian Government is not happy with the situation. It has not supported Russia in international fora (but also not condemned Russia). It is not, as a newspaper said, 'a binary issue'. Modi meets Zelensky tomorrow (He is in Poland today). Sure, they would talk about possibilities for peace. He is not a Putin emissary.

 

[Sargonski]

Biden hasn't carried out an unprovoked attack against a democratic nation nor is he responsible for any war crimes or violation of human rights. He also hasn't jailed, poisoned, or "disappeared" any political critics/rivals. Why embarrass yourself by making such ridiculous comparisons that no intelligent person would ever take seriously?

Holy Carp .. what difference does it make whether or not nation was democratic ? .. Like Serbia .. but oh .. that wasn't Biden .. Was Slick Willy . on the not so democratic side .. Libya, Yemen .. for which he got complicity in War crimes... Syria - for which he was full on guilty of War crimes .. and where he earned his nick Genocide Joe -- for the deeds of his Proxies .. the "JV-Team"

now what was that about "Why embarrass yourself by making such ridiculous comparisons that no intelligent person would ever take seriously?" .. think log out of own eye might apply

The U.S. under Biden is probably at its most timid since at least 1991. He even withdrew arguably prematurely from Afghanistan.

Biden and Putin aren't even remotely close in terms of how they govern their respective countries. One has a problematic history (e.g., voting for the Iraq War) but is otherwise currently restrained and not aggressive (so far, at least); the other is a bona fide war criminal and expansionist dictator who has repeatedly threatened to use nukes in a reckless and irresponsible manner.

Arguably not .. up until the Iraq war .. Genocide Joe did more than desert storm .. an racked up a host of war crimes .. crimes against humanity.. 500,000 civilians dead is nothing to sneeze at .. .. just in Syria ..

 

[Father Heathen]

Holy Carp .. what difference does it make whether or not nation was democratic ?

I would like to think that a government chosen by its people holds more legitimacy than those that weren't.

.. Like Serbia .. but oh .. that wasn't Biden .. Was Slick Willy .
on the not so democratic side .. Libya, Yemen .. for which he got complicity in War crimes... Syria - for which he was full on guilty of War crimes .. and where he earned his nick Genocide Joe -- for the deeds of his Proxies .. the "JV-Team"

now what was that about "Why embarrass yourself by making such ridiculous comparisons that no intelligent person would ever take seriously?" .. think log out of own eye might apply

I'm always open to being corrected if I'm uninformed/misinformed. Care to provide some sources so I can read up on it? Are you suggesting that Biden deployed troops into countries unprovoked who then proceeded to commit war crimes against civilians? Is the U.S. military guilty of trafficking, raping, torturing, and murdering children? Even if true, that doesn't absolve Putin. It would only make Biden just as bad as Putin. After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Sargonski]

I would like to think that a government chosen by its people holds more legitimacy than those that weren't.

I'm always open to being corrected if I'm uninformed/misinformed. Care to provide some sources so I can read up on it? Are you suggesting that Biden deployed troops into countries unprovoked who then proceeded to commit war crimes against civilians? Is the U.S. military guilty of trafficking, raping, torturing, and murdering children? Even if true, that doesn't absolve Putin. It would only make Biden just as bad as Putin. After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

Holy carp what moving the goal post nonsense fallacy .. So what you are saying .. is that it would have been OK had Biden done unprovoked attacks against non democratic nations .. but attacking nations with any kind of democratic process .. that is a no no. ??

What do you mean "Sources" ?? you want a source for the complicity in war crimes in Yemen? Do you know anything about what went down in Yemen at all ? .. Bad stuff Brother Heathen .. War crimes .. crimes against humanity .. and we were there helping out .. like we are doing in the Gaza Holocaust ..

A team of United Nations investigators, commissioned by the UN Human Rights Council, presented a devastating report in Geneva in early September detailing how the US, along with Britain and France, are likely complicit in war crimes in Yemen because of continued weapons sales and intelligence support to the Saudis and their allies, especially the United Arab Emirates.

America is likely complicit in war crimes in Yemen. It's time to hold the US to account | Mohamad Bazzi

Saudi-led forces have deliberately targeted civilians since the war’s early days – and US officials have done little to stop it

www.theguardian.com

??

But that is nothing compared to the dirty deed in Syria .. a proxy war that lasted through much of the last decade --- 500,000 civilians Killed .. massive war crimes .. crimes against humanity .. Genocide .. rape - torture - Forced marriage . Xenophobic Pogroms .. daily Executions .. a Strict Sharia wonderland .. dark age style .. and you were completely unaware .. of the war .. and that one is just as guilty for genocide against folks living in a democracy as one is against folks living in some other system.. .. its an international law thing..

 

[Father Heathen]

Holy carp what moving the goal post nonsense fallacy .. So what you are saying .. is that it would have been OK had Biden done unprovoked attacks against non democratic nations .. but attacking nations with any kind of democratic process .. that is a no no. ??

What do you mean "Sources" ?? you want a source for the complicity in war crimes in Yemen? Do you know anything about what went down in Yemen at all ? .. Bad stuff Brother Heathen .. War crimes .. crimes against humanity .. and we were there helping out .. like we are doing in the Gaza Holocaust ..

America is likely complicit in war crimes in Yemen. It's time to hold the US to account | Mohamad Bazzi

Saudi-led forces have deliberately targeted civilians since the war’s early days – and US officials have done little to stop it

www.theguardian.com

??

But that is nothing compared to the dirty deed in Syria .. a proxy war that lasted through much of the last decade --- 500,000 civilians Killed .. massive war crimes .. crimes against humanity .. Genocide .. rape - torture - Forced marriage . Xenophobic Pogroms .. daily Executions .. a Strict Sharia wonderland .. dark age style .. and you were completely unaware .. of the war .. and that one is just as guilty for genocide against folks living in a democracy as one is against folks living in some other system.. .. its an international law thing..

The U.S. shouldn't be backing Israel, Saudi Arabia, or any other nation/faction that is despotic or terroristic in nature. But if we're asserting that Biden and Putin are peas in a pod, we'll need a comparable list of critics and rivals being poisoned, falling out of windows, or disappearing. And while the U.S. military undoubtedly has some dirty laundry, it hasn't quite reached the level of depravity that Russia's forces have, such as trafficking, torturing, raping, and executing children (Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine, U.N. panel says). The U.S. is certainly guilty of horrible things, but again, whataboutism doesn't absolve Putin, even if Biden was just as bad or worse.

Murdering, raping, torturing, etc. civilians is bad, regardless of who is doing it, and regardless of who it's being done to. Biden. Putin. Hamas. IDF. Whoever's responsible for it should be held accountable for it.

 

[Sargonski]

The U.S. shouldn't be backing Israel, Saudi Arabia, or any other nation/faction that is despotic or terroristic in nature. But if we're asserting that Biden and Putin are peas in a pod, we'll need a comparable list of critics and rivals being poisoned, falling out of windows, or disappearing. And while the U.S. military undoubtedly has some dirty laundry, it hasn't quite reached the level of depravity that Russia's forces have, such as trafficking, torturing, raping, and executing children (Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine, U.N. panel says). The U.S. is certainly guilty of horrible things, but again, whataboutism doesn't absolve Putin, even if Biden was just as bad or worse.

Murdering, raping, torturing, etc. civilians is bad, regardless of who is doing it, and regardless of who it's being done to. Biden. Putin. Hamas. IDF. Whoever's responsible for it should be held accountable for it.

"The US shouldn't be backing Israel, Saudi Arabia - any other despotic terrorist Nation" !! No kidding glad we have found a point of agreement .. and do we not have laws against arming terrorists and those committing crimes against humanity ??

Russian army is comprised of Vagner Mercs, Chechins - Islamic Jihadists left who cut teeth in the war in Syria (remember .. the one's Genocide Joe was supporting - IS - Al Qaeda . The Previous JV -Team .. oh you never heard about the JV team ? .. KK ... moving on --- while indeed such things may have happened -- oh and we forgot the the criminals fighting for Russia --- it is not "State Sanctioned" nor systemic .. the "few bad apples " rule actually applying .. This was not the case for the rape and torture conducted by the Azov Neo Nazi Terrorists that Congress forbid arming and funding in 2018 .. "Because we have laws agaisnt such things"

NOR - are the Russian "atrocities" remotely coparable to the Israeli Atrocities .. not in scale .. not in number ... not in intent .. comparing a rain drop to a hurricane .. Gentle Vlad .. the pinnacle of respect for civilian life in war - International Law in war.

What part of "The Pinnacle" - "Shining Star on a Hill" - is trying to go deer in headlights right now ? -- and this is from someone who really dislikes "Russians" in general .. on a Political but also on a personal level .. not that I will generalize bad experiences to an entire population burt .. don't look this way for Russian Admiration --- but on the geopolitical chessboard .. a spade is a spade.

Now Biden ?! .. and do learn chess notation for greater enlightement .. "aka" Genocide Joe .. A label I have been using long before the Gaza Holocaust .. the crimes there making the brown shirts blush .. the Warsaw Ghetto a picnic in paradise by comparison .. but never mind that .. aiding and abetting that shart show should land one in the Hague as far as I am concerned .. a disgusting black mark on the nation .. but forget all that.. You want to compare Putin Atrocities to Biden Atrocities ... Put "Peas in a Pod" .. there is no comparison .. another snowflake in a Hurricane doublespeak .. you are probably still trying to get over the "Pinnicle of respect for civilian life and international law" .. Right !?

So you really don't know what went down in Syria .. a war in which you had A) The Pinnacle of respect for essential liberty and human rights .. the Shining star on the hill of Secularism .. among Muslim Nations .. A Nation where women can drive cars and get an education without permission of a man .. dancing in a short skirt while drinking a Corona in bars .. playing -- and get ready for God forbid .. Western Music .. and going swimming in a bikini - .. a woman that is while at the same time .. it is also legal to swim in a halloween costume .. and some there do that as well .. no stoning of Gays .. oh .. and Christian Churches .. a large and really ancient Christian Community .. and OH OH .. another "God Forbid" .. the Horror of Horrors .. a Jewish Synagogue .

Now .. this does not make Assad a good guy .. nor does the nation Biden is from allowing all of the above make Biden a good guy .. you want to talk "security state" - a vision of our future in ways . however .. when you are head of a nation .. where 50% of the population is "Sunni-Salafi militant Islamist extremists" that word bolded for a reason - you may be tempted to get a little heavy handed at times.

So .. you know what the Saudi inspired "Sunni Salafi militant extremist Islamist" ideology is Right ! .. Mother bee to all the spawn we love .. Right .. you know the names ? or at least some of them Al Shabaab , Boko-Haram, the crazy Mujahadeem or what ever it is called in Pakistan-India .. terrorists doing the Mumbai bombing and such .. Hold on .. No .. these names not so familiar ? these terrorist groups around the world all sharing this lovely ideology that Brother El Saud was exporting around the world for decades ..

KK .. how about a few names you do know .. "For SURE" .. IS - no ?! .. how about ISIS .. there we go .. ISIL ... another hit .. and last but not least "The Taliban" ?? no just joking .. you got it .. the 911 Terrorist Crew .. the one we all knew you knew ..beloved Al Qaeda.

So the war in Syria was not a "Civil War" .. by any stretch of the imagination .. (ask for Biden - foot in mouth quote if in any doubt) This was a war between A) Secular Syria .. with Christian Generals in his Army .. against an armed insurgency of Salafi Islamist extremists .. who came by the tens of thousands from all over the world .. to join in the Holy Crusade .. to turn Syria into a Strict Sharia Vunderland like Mother EL Saud.

Those are the two sides of the war Assad -- "Al Qaeda-ISIS - and spawn" who -- with massive support from 30 different nations .. NATO included .. managed to realize the dream .. taking every major city in Syria except Damascus . and a brand new state was created .. and - at least unofficially - recognized by the West and friends .. this new "Islamic State" - managed to survive for 3+ years 2013 to 2017.. .. Russia having to come in round 2015 .. as Damascus was about to go under .. and defeat the Terrorist nation liberated all the cities in Syria .. except Raqqa because that was in the US controlled Zone .. HQ of IS .. but then Trump took out Raqqa with the help of the Kurds .. and claimed to defeat Biden's proxy Army on that basis

Now .. if you think it is strange that after 911 .. the war on terror .. war on Iraq .. war on Afghanistan (neither of which had anything to do with Al Qaeda .. Brother El Saud on the other hand) Bush saying we not only going after the terrorists .. but the supporters. .. -- That 10 years after 911 we are arming the 911 Terrorist group to the teeth with sophisticated US military Technology "Our Boys" .. our new Proxy army against the Evil Assad .. fighting for democracy and liberty .. I thought it a bit strange as well... .. as did Tulsi Gabbard and 13 bipartisan co-sponsors of the 2017 "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" .. but let us not digress ..

Funny you know because after 911 -- we sent some of the folks "kidnapped" over to our Friend Assad for "interrogation" .. a smart thing if you think about it as Assad if anyone knows what Sunni Islamist Terrorist smells like .. been fighting them since day one .. all day .. everyday day Assad .. and unfortunately was known for being rather brutal about it .. Unfortunately that Canadian Guy we sent over .. turned out to be innocent - mercilessly tortured .. but he had it good compared to the dungeons we were operating out of Thailand and Eastern Europe-- rounding up anyone who might have known someone who talked to a suspected Al Qaeda Operative..

Sorry -- we digressed again didn't we .. So in Late 2011 the war begins ... They ship over all the arms left over from the war in Yugoslavia .. tanks .. howizers .. this is not some desert rats smuggling AK-47s over the border .. This is full on "we got your back" action .. tens of thousands of foreign Jihadists flow into the Nation .. all fighting to create a caliphate .. a new Islamic State. and that is exactly what happened .. in late 2013 - with the help of Obama's coalition of 30 nations a new Islamic State was declared. One which we fought along side with against Assad for more than 3 years. .. until Russia rained on the party.

Did you need to be told of the Scale of the Crimes against humanity ? .. Torture - Rape - Murder - Pogroms - in particular going after Christians .. but in general anyone who was not El Saud Sunni Salafi Islamist .. even muslims were not safe .. and this stuff was put all over the internet .. they were proud of their daily executions and head chopping .. courts were set up in all the cities - strict sharia - "Dark Age Style"

Millions fled .. became refugees .. 500,000 civilians documented dead .. the actual total thought to be much higher .. but imagine waking up in the morning one day in "aleppo" and being Christian - druze .. or just "not one of US" .. and these insane nutters have taken over .. Forced Marriage mate .. they kill the husband .. rape the wife as a matter of course .. or if they don't kill her she is forced into sexual slavery .. one of muhammad's 5 wives. this business not only "State Sanctioned" .. but it is the Law that people be treated in horrific ways .. tortured .. murdered raped ..

Like comparing a Snow Flake to a Blizzard ..