How old were you when you stopped being atheist?

[sandandfoam]

I was 35

 

[cablescavenger]

I think you have that backwards. Since one would have to at least know of a concept of god in order to state that they don't believe in it, one would have to have knowledge of at least one deity concept before one could be atheist. You can't reject that which you don't know about. To be agnostic one has no stance one way or the other in belief of deity, whether they have knowledge of the choices or not. So therefore, a baby would be agnostic.

Atheism

To be Theist you have to accept the existence of a God, so to be atheist you have to have not have accepted the existence of a God.

Atheism is not about rejection of a God, it is the lack of a belief in God. You don't have to necessarily state you don't believe in God, just not have accepted a God.

Agnostic is a chosen position. It is a person who has determined that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

So you see it makes perfect sense that babies are atheist, since that is the default position for people who have given God no consideration.

 

[cablescavenger]

Atheist is a lack of belief in a diety/Supreme Being/whatever you want to call it.

I said I do not ever recall a time, from my earliest memories, that I didn't believe in a Being outside and "over" all creation, and my memories start at about age 2.

Since we can only offer conjecture about what infants know and don't know about the origins of life, neither of us can say with any certainty whether or not humans are born atheists.

One thing is for sure - infants could tell us things we know nothing about, if they could talk.

If you don't remember then you don't remember. I am cool with that. :beach:

Saying you don't know if children do or don't believe isn't conjecture, since they don't acknowledge God when they start to talk either, they have to be taught about God.

 

[cablescavenger]

I have two problems with the assumption that humans are born atheists. First, and more importantly, it appears inaccurate. New studies show that it's more likely that humans are predisposed towards a basic animism, and our penchant for ascribing agency and purpose to things is well known. Because of these things, we might very well be predisposed to inherently believing in some sort of god concept.

There is evidence that we are predisposed to believing, but that does not mean believing in God before we know what it is.

I have a 4 year old Grandson that has never heard the word God and has expressed no belief in God. Why would he?

My second problem is that to describe infants as atheists really seems to suck any meaning out of the word. Regardless of whether you wish to define atheism as a "lack of belief" or not, at least have the courtesy to refrain slapping labels on children until they are old enough to form beliefs themselves, and understand what they are.

I don't believe people do slap the label of atheist on babies. Atheism is just the default position for non believers, so one could, but in general at least as far as I am aware, they don't.

I have admittedly, to raise awareness.

I wanted people to be aware that atheists were icky wicky sweet, good looking, big eyed bundles of fun :yes:

 

[cablescavenger]

I was 35

Hi Stephen

35 when what? you became religious?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Can someone explain this exchange to me? I don't follow...

Willamena's question is an example of a loaded question, where whether you answer in the affirmative or negative your answer will imply that you correspond(ed) with a presumption that is inherent in the question itself. Usually, said presumption is arbitrary or unjustified.

An example of this is "When did you drop out of school?". The question relies on two unjustified assumptions from the get-go:

a) You attended school at one point.
b) You dropped out of school.

Both assumptions are arbitrary, and serve to prompt a response that would be used to give a certain impression or impressions about the answerer (which is usually how loaded questions are employed).

I think Willamena meant to facetiously poke fun at the thread title when she posed her (loaded) question.

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi Stephen

35 when what? you became religious?

35 when I stopped being an atheist.

 

[cablescavenger]

35 when I stopped being an atheist.

There seem to be a couple of late adopters on the thread. Have you found it an easy transition?

 

[Kathryn]

I disagree.

We don't know what infants know about the origins of life.

 

[Falvlun]

There is evidence that we are predisposed to believing, but that does not mean believing in God before we know what it is.

I have a 4 year old Grandson that has never heard the word God and has expressed no belief in God. Why would he?

Why might he? Because evolution has constructed his mind in such a way to lend itself to belief in god-like entities. He might not ever say the word "God" because he has not been taught to associate that word with any meaning; or because he has been taught that that word only refers to a particular type of God, which has no relation to the one he has an intuitive belief in.

I am not suggesting that infants know what the word "God" means anymore than they understand what the word "breast" means. But utilizing a word is not a prerequisite for having a belief. We know that babies automatically seem to understand that they are supposed to suckle at the mound of soft fatty tissue its mother offers to it. They have an innate understanding, or belief, that breasts provide milk and they should suckle, even though they don't know what a breast is or what milk is or why they should want it.

Humans children often display an intuitive dualistic worldview, they believe that objects have purpose, and that non-human entities exhibit agency and contain an animating component, like they experience themselves to have.

At best, it seems premature to categorically claim that all babies are atheists. We simply do not know, and as mentioned above, studies with toddlers seem to indicate the opposite trend.

I don't believe people do slap the label of atheist on babies. Atheism is just the default position for non believers, so one could, but in general at least as far as I am aware, they don't.

I have admittedly, to raise awareness.

I wanted people to be aware that atheists were icky wicky sweet, good looking, big eyed bundles of fun :yes:

Personally, I find it just as bad as claiming a baby is a Christian, simply because she has been baptized. And I don't think babies should be used to prove a point.

I also think there is something wrong with the currently popular definition of atheism if it can be utilized to label babies (as well as the proverbial rocks.)

 

[Falvlun]

both the Qur'an and hadith mention it:

[30:30] So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.

Narrated Abu- Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "No child is born except on Al-fitra (Islam) and then his parents make him Jewish, Christian or Magian, as an animal produces a perfect young animal: do you see any part of its body amputated?" Then he rec 'The religion of pure Islamic Faith (Hanifa),(i.e. to worship none but Allah), The pure Allah's Islamic nature with which He (Allah) has created mankind. Let There be no change in Allah's religion (i.e. to join none in Allah's worship). That is the straight religion; but most of men know not..." (30.30) (Book #60, Hadith #298)

Is the belief that all babies are born Muslim referring primarily to the broad meaning of the word Muslim as "someone who submits to God"?

I could understand that belief, though I don't share it. I would think it harder to believe that the baby is born with an innate understanding that it should pray to Mecca five times a day, not eat pork products, and all the other specific practices the religion of Islam promotes.

 

[Me Myself]

I am not suggesting for a second all people are atheist, but I do think it important to recognise that atheism is just a default position and not one of bad people. Some will move on from that position and choose a religion some won't.

Actually, I think animism is the default position.

I am still an animist

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Actually, I think animism is the default position.

I am still an animist

I would wager, based on modern developmental psychology, that solipsism is the default position. Animism is right after.

 

[SaintAugustine]

I don't recall being an atheist, ever. I think God came into sharp focus 5th, 6th grade.

 

[Draka]

Atheism

To be Theist you have to accept the existence of a God, so to be atheist you have to have not have accepted the existence of a God.

Atheism is not about rejection of a God, it is the lack of a belief in God. You don't have to necessarily state you don't believe in God, just not have accepted a God.

Agnostic is a chosen position. It is a person who has determined that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

So you see it makes perfect sense that babies are atheist, since that is the default position for people who have given God no consideration.

Don't you feel that one has to at least have an idea of the subject before there can be any stance about it? I'll give on the agnostism because upon further thinking you'd have to have knowledge of the concepts for it as well. If anything, one would start out ignostic, not atheistic, theistic, or even agnostic. Those three stances require knowledge of the subject, while being ignostic is to be ignorant of the deity subject entirely. So one would start out ignostic and then, once learning about a concept of deity, would develop one of the other stances. So it is entirely possible to not ever have been atheist. It really is not the default position...ignorance is.

 

[illykitty]

I've never been religious in my early years and in teenage years I decided I was an atheist without really considering anything else. I was angry at religion, God and people. Around the age of 19, I started reading about various faiths because I was curious... Why do people believe. What are the religions really like? Also, I questioned myself on the non existence of God. How can I know that God doesn't exist?

There's theories like the Big Bang but I came to realise that unless there is a creator, there's no beginning and to me, it makes no sense for something to appear out of nowhere without something behind it. Matter cannot make itself and it cannot decide to appear. So I decided to believe in divine power(s).

 

[Revoltingest]

Ain't never been nuthin but an atheist.
Born that way & never got no religious training.
Atheism still gets the job done for me.

 

[Kathryn]

Ain't never been nuthin but an atheist.
Born that way & never got no religious training.
Atheism still gets the job done for me.

You may be interested to know that I've acquired some pork belly and I am curing my own bacon this week. Maple flavored - with pure maple syrup.

 

[Revoltingest]

You may be interested to know that I've acquired some pork belly and I am curing my own bacon this week. Maple flavored - with pure maple syrup.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........
But Homer says it best.....
[youtube]msQPHxTUgzI[/youtube]
Homer Simpson Gurgle Noise - YouTube

 

[cablescavenger]

Don't you feel that one has to at least have an idea of the subject before there can be any stance about it? I'll give on the agnostism because upon further thinking you'd have to have knowledge of the concepts for it as well. If anything, one would start out ignostic, not atheistic, theistic, or even agnostic. Those three stances require knowledge of the subject, while being ignostic is to be ignorant of the deity subject entirely. So one would start out ignostic and then, once learning about a concept of deity, would develop one of the other stances. So it is entirely possible to not ever have been atheist. It really is not the default position...ignorance is.

Theist is someone with a belief in a deity.
Prefix 'A' = not or without

Therefore:
A-Theist = Someone without a belief in a deity.

So if you deny Gods, or just don't have a belief in Gods then you are atheist.