How Paul Contradicts Jesus on the Most Important Doctrine of Christianity

[Audie]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

Anyone who re ads Pauls snake story can see he is a phony.

 

[Audie]

You need to look at the bible in its entire context. If you do, you won't find any contradictions.

You know, we see this same lame idea posted over and over.
It is no more convincing now than the first time.

The assumption that anyone who sees what you do not is
simply ignorant, has not read, is insulting and false.

Of course, if you want to hold that people are perfect
and incapable of error, to ahead. it wont help your case.

Let me guess... you also think there are no inaccurate
statements in yon book? Besides the contradictions,
that is.

Of course, a statement contrary to fact might be considered
a contradiction, and those are thick in the bible.

 

[Audie]

Wild theories.

I have heard several "theories" to explain Paul's
phony snake story.
What is your wild theory?

 

[e.r.m.]

I have heard several "theories" to explain Paul's
phony snake story.
What is your wild theory?

Mark 16:17-18 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; [18] they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Acts 16:16-18 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling. [17] Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation." [18] She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.

God gave him these abilities.

 

[Audie]

Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Acts 16:16-18 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling. [17] Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation." [18] She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.

God gave him these abilities.

You are very naive if you think that quoting scrip
is going to get you anywhere in this kind of discussion,
or for that matter, that it even addresses my question.

Or is it all you can do, in lieu of thinking and speaking
for yourself?

The snake story is an obvious lie. I bet you never noticed,
and have no idea why I said it is. Do you see any
"odd" details?

 

[e.r.m.]

You are very naive if you think that quoting scrip
is going to get you anywhere in this kind of discussion,
or for that matter, that it even addresses my question.

Or is it all you can do, in lieu of thinking and speaking
for yourself?

The snake story is an obvious lie. I bet you never noticed,
and have no idea why I said it is. Do you see any
"odd" details?

I wish I had time to reply right now. I'll try catching you after work.

 

[Audie]

I wish I had time to reply right now. I'll try catching you after work.

No prob, it is midnight here, I need sleep.

 

[e.r.m.]

No prob, it is midnight here, I need sleep.

What part of the world are you in?

You seem very spirited and enthusiastic in what you believe. I don't know why your combative though. I answered your question as you asked me. What is my wild theory? I don't know that my answer will satisfy your curiosity. Correct, I don't know why you consider it a lie, or what odd details you're referring to. But I read it over again. First if you were to accuse anyone of lying, it would be Luke, because it was his telling of the account.
Aside from that, the only thing that I think you could be referring to is the snake fastening itself on to Paul's hand, as opposed to just striking it. If that's what you're referring to, I don't see that as an obvious lie, as snakes attack in different ways, and I once had looked up with the type of snake on that island, and there seemed to be a good variety oh, if I remember correctly. If that's not what you're referring to, I'll be happy to listen to it and consider it. I hope you had a good sleep.

 

[Audie]

What part of the world are you in?

You seem very spirited and enthusiastic in what you believe. I don't know why your combative though. I answered your question as you asked me. What is my wild theory? I don't know that my answer will satisfy your curiosity. Correct, I don't know why you consider it a lie, or what odd details you're referring to. But I read it over again. First if you were to accuse anyone of lying, it would be Luke, because it was his telling of the account.
Aside from that, the only thing that I think you could be referring to is the snake fastening itself on to Paul's hand, as opposed to just striking it. If that's what you're referring to, I don't see that as an obvious lie, as snakes attack in different ways, and I once had looked up with the type of snake on that island, and there seemed to be a good variety oh, if I remember correctly. If that's not what you're referring to, I'll be happy to listen to it and consider it. I hope you had a good sleep.

There are no vipers or other poisonous snakes on that island.
(you did not notice that detail?)
So that does make it easy to "take up serpents" and put
one over on the yokels, if that is the intent.

Of course, there are other unbelievable details, if one
were to pay attention to the story.

Whether "Paul" originated the story, merely let it be told
on his behalf or what is hardly material.

Calling such observations "wild theories" could be taken
as deliberately invidious, if "combative" is a concern
to you.

 

[e.r.m.]

There are no vipers or other poisonous snakes on that island.
(you did not notice that detail?)
So that does make it easy to "take up serpents" and put
one over on the yokels, if that is the intent.

Of course, there are other unbelievable details, if one
were to pay attention to the story.

Whether "Paul" originated the story, merely let it be told
on his behalf or what is hardly material.

Calling such observations "wild theories" could be taken
as deliberately invidious, if "combative" is a concern
to you.

My wild theories statement was directed at someone else's post, not yours. And actually there are a variety of snakes on that island. As I had researched it once before. I can again.

What is yokels?

 

[Audie]

My wild theories statement was directed at someone else's post, not yours. And actually there are a variety of snakes on that island. As I had researched it once before. I can again.

What is yokels?

What ARE yokels. You can look it up faster than you
can ask.

Variety of snakes, yes. No vipers, none are poisonous.

 

[e.r.m.]

What ARE yokels. You can look it up faster than you
can ask.

Variety of snakes, yes. No vipers, none are poisonous.

Ok. first I'd like to say, that this would not be a commonly obvious issue I just reading the account. One would need to look into the Viper issue. Now that I have, it is an interesting issue. I read through some of the explanations, and why they don't work. And also the likeliest scenario I've found so far that the island pull her country was not the modern Malta come up with a different Island. Being as enthusiastic as you are, I would guess you are familiar with most are all the theories. I'm not too concerned. After almost 2000 years, there are bound to be some answers missing. Luke was criticized for a while for using the term 'politarchs' in Acts 17:6-8. The term was not found in historical records for a while, and then it was. I'm not losing any sleep.

 

[Audie]

Ok. first I'd like to say, that this would not be a commonly obvious issue I just reading the account. One would need to look into the Viper issue. Now that I have, it is an interesting issue. I read through some of the explanations, and why they don't work. And also the likeliest scenario I've found so far that the island pull her country was not the modern Malta come up with a different Island. Being as enthusiastic as you are, I would guess you are familiar with most are all the theories. I'm not too concerned. After almost 2000 years, there are bound to be some answers missing. Luke was criticized for a while for using the term 'politarchs' in Acts 17:6-8. The term was not found in historical records for a while, and then it was. I'm not losing any sleep.

There are a number of obvious reasons besides
"viper" for the story being false, obvious that is
if a person reads with any sort of analytical care.

Different island does not help, even if it did have
vipers. Vipers do not "cling". Nobody is going to
pick up a snake and not even notice it isnt a stick,
nor is a snake going to be laying about motionless
in the rain.

Show any kind of snake to ten people, you will get
ten different identifications. If you were flailing it about
you might get 20.

Its a ridiculous story. I'd love to see the person with
the story try to act it out in court. Laughter would be
the best they could hope for.

Its not a case of "enthusiasm"it is my nature and
training do do my due diligence. I saw that story,
it did not ring true, and the more I looked at it the
more phony it became.

It is like a lot of bible stories that way.

If you are fine with that, go for it.

 

[e.r.m.]

There are a number of obvious reasons besides
"viper" for the story being false, obvious that is
if a person reads with any sort of analytical care.

Different island does not help, even if it did have
vipers. Vipers do not "cling". Nobody is going to
pick up a snake and not even notice it isnt a stick,
nor is a snake going to be laying about motionless
in the rain.

Show any kind of snake to ten people, you will get
ten different identifications. If you were flailing it about
you might get 20.

Its a ridiculous story. I'd love to see the person with
the story try to act it out in court. Laughter would be
the best they could hope for.

Its not a case of "enthusiasm"it is my nature and
training do do my due diligence. I saw that story,
it did not ring true, and the more I looked at it the
more phony it became.

It is like a lot of bible stories that way.

If you are fine with that, go for it.

First, sorry for all the voice to text errors I did not catch in my last post. I should have been more careful, but I think you got the idea of what I was trying to say. I respect your opinion and your "due diligence". For me, it's not something I need to resolve. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. It was an interesting discussion. Not that it may not be important, just not high on my priority list. I'm guessing you may find others who may take more interest in engaging in this with you. I wish you well.

 

[Audie]

First, sorry for all the voice to text errors I did not catch in my last post. I should have been more careful, but I think you got the idea of what I was trying to say. I respect your opinion and your "due diligence". For me, it's not something I need to resolve. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. It was an interesting discussion. Not that it may not be important, just not high on my priority list. I'm guessing you may find others who may take more interest in engaging in this with you. I wish you well.

No disappointment. Whether the truthfulness of the
bible is important to you or not is your deal.

 

[e.r.m.]

It is. I just don't have to resolve every account or issue to be at peace. I resolved a lot and right now other things are just priority

 

[Muffled]

Read it. They are there.

I believe I have read the Bible several times and they are not here.

 

[Muffled]

The great Paul was the first Anti-Christ. Paul placed his teachings above the teachings of Jesus. Anti-Christ means "in place of". Jesus even warned us of his coming. "If they say they see me in the DESERT, do not believe them, they are false prophets. Where did Paul say he met Jesus? There are many, many, many other examples were we are told who Paul is.

I believe you have fantasies of such but none of it is rational.

 

[Bobby Anderson]

I believe you have fantasies of such but none of it is rational.

I could say the same, but I know I'm right so no need to.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I believe I have read the Bible several times and they are not here.

I have too and they are.