How Quickly Religious Myths Can Appear. Why Is This Not Possible About Jesus?

[paarsurrey]

Hindu myths have lasted even longer, and continue to do so.

Very rightly said.

Regards

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I agree with one here.
I have also read the Bible from cover to cover and my opinion is also the same that Jesus of Pauline Bible is mythical Pagan-Christ and is not Jesus son of Mary, a Jewish person. Right, please?

Regards

I don't care who's son he was or wasn't. I think that who the dude's mother was, is one of the least interesting claims in the book.

 

[Desert Snake]

There ya go with the word truths, not capitalised, not in quote, how is anyone to know that you mean alternative truth? I.e beliefs

Everything is a belief.

The reason why? Well for example, some know that pink unicorns roam mars.

You arent going to like the arguments with those who think they're gods, either.

Heres a hint, their arguments rely on 'facts'

 

[ChristineM]

"I have seen his dads gravestone"

How do you know that Jesus "was son of a roman soldier"?

Regards

It implies such in hebrew scripture (Talmud)

Also see Pantera - RationalWiki

You could also search for 'jesus son of pantera'

 

[ChristineM]

Everything is a belief.

The reason why? Well for example, some know that pink unicorns roam mars.

You arent going to like the arguments with those who think there gods, either.

Heres a hint, their arguments rely on 'facts'

Strawman

I really dont care what other people think, i do care what i know

No belief in god argument relies on fact, otherwise there would be no faith

 

[Desert Snake]

Strawman

I really dont care what other people think, i do care what i know

No belief in god argument relies on fact, otherwise there would be no faith

Really bad argument. You've presented an opinion based on a lack of belief, about something you can't prove.

 

[Desert Snake]

Strawman

I really dont care what other people think, i do care what i know

Yes, so do those who know that pink unicorns roam mars.

 

[ChristineM]

As far as I'm aware, books don't have beliefs. Therefore, the bible is not "unfounded belief." It doesn't matter whether the "major players" existed in fact, because the bible isn't that type of literature. It's largely mythic, as I've pointed out several times. I certainly don't need the characters to have existed in fact in order for the myths to convey truth to me.

Are you saying you've never been moved by a work of fiction, or the lyrics to a song, even though the characters and situations do not exist in fact? If so, it must be a fairly two dimensional existence for you. But your avatar suggests otherwise. The picture means something to you, even though it's not your skull. The bible moves people -- stirs something within them. Are you saying that that stirring is fake because the stories and poetry aren't factual? If so, then why the Louvre? Why Carnegie Hall? Why spend money on music and art?

Sheesh, it is written based on unfounded belief and it instills unfounded belief. You want to talk semantics yet use non standard definitions.

Of course i have been moved by works of fiction and fiction is the key word here.

The bible may move people, play with their emotions, whatever, that does not make it true or factual

 

[sojourner]

Sheesh, it is written based on unfounded belief and it instills unfounded belief. You want to talk semantics yet use non standard definitions.

Of course i have been moved by works of fiction and fiction is the key word here.

The bible may move people, play with their emotions, whatever, that does not make it true or factual

I didn’t say it was true or factual. Please try to keep up. I said that it conveyed truths. Heck, Star Wars conveys truths about the human condition through myth and metaphor.

I don’t think the Bible instills belief; rather, it reflects belief. Faith came before the written page, you know.

Strictly speaking from a literary standpoint (remember: we are discussing literature here), the texts aren’t fiction.

 

[sojourner]

I don't care who's son he was or wasn't. I think that who the dude's mother was, is one of the least interesting claims in the book.

Then you don’t understand either the culture out of which the stories come, or the theology they present.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Then you don’t understand either the culture out of which the stories come, or the theology they present.

Whatever man.
I don't think that the many, many claims in the religion fall or stand with knowing (or not) the identity of the dude's mother.

And you have given me no reason to reconsider that position.

 

[ChristineM]

Really bad argument. You've presented an opinion based on a lack of belief, about something you can't prove.

Read a few definitions and learn what other people have already learned rather than painting them with your personal hang ups

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, so do those who know that pink unicorns roam mars.

Please supply names and addresses, or at least provide citation to justify your strawman on mars

 

[sojourner]

Whatever man.
I don't think that the many, many claims in the religion fall or stand with knowing (or not) the identity of the dude's mother.

And you have given me no reason to reconsider that position.

I think you’re wrong. The identity of Jesus’ mother — as they’re presented theologically in the texts — provide interesting clues to the whole purpose of Jesus’ coming. It honors the feminine aspect of humanity, it gives a nod to human sexuality as the root of human existence, it provides a theological grounding for the ways in which humanity is created in the Divine Image, and it places Jesus firmly within the human family. These issues lie at the heart of many of the religion’s claims.

 

[ChristineM]

I didn’t say it was true or factual. Please try to keep up. I said that it conveyed truths. Heck, Star Wars conveys truths about the human condition through myth and metaphor.

I don’t think the Bible instills belief; rather, it reflects belief. Faith came before the written page, you know.

Strictly speaking from a literary standpoint (remember: we are discussing literature here), the texts aren’t fiction.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts ?

Starwars is a fictional story. I didn't realise you thought otherwise.

Your belief is yours,nor anyone elses

No, we are discussing definitions and there you go moving the goalposts again. If you cant stick to the point there is no point in continuing

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think you’re wrong. The identity of Jesus’ mother — as they’re presented theologically in the texts — provide interesting clues to the whole purpose of Jesus’ coming. It honors the feminine aspect of humanity, it gives a nod to human sexuality as the root of human existence, it provides a theological grounding for the ways in which humanity is created in the Divine Image, and it places Jesus firmly within the human family. These issues lie at the heart of many of the religion’s claims.

???

How is this in any way related to his mother being woman A or woman B?
Seems to me that all these things could be said about any woman.

 

[sojourner]

Why do you keep moving the goalposts ?

Starwars is a fictional story. I didn't realise you thought otherwise.

Your belief is yours,nor anyone elses

No, we are discussing definitions and there you go moving the goalposts again. If you cant stick to the point there is no point in continuing

I’m not the one moving goalposts. You keep setting up strawmen, based on definitions that you believe apply. They are not the definitions used by theological scholars.

Let’s just cut the crap and name what’s going on here. You want to discredit the Bible as being nothing more than a work of fiction that carries no significance to humanity. You want to discredit theology and faith as nothing more than unfounded and capricious whim. You do so by throwing around the term “myth” indiscriminately — even though the way in which you use it does not apply to either textual scholarship or to theological study. You do so by insisting that the only things that really matter in humanity’s search for truth are measurable facts, when, in fact, we know that there are many aspects of real human experience that simply can’t be quantified.

Your entire argument rests on a flimsy demand for “evidence” for faith-claims in order to “prove” their veracity, completely ignoring the fact that faith takes form in metaphor, allegory and, yes, MYTH (in the literary sense of that term), and not in the world of scientific or mathematical proof. It’s no different than calling “beauty” fake, because aesthetics can’t be quantified, or insisting that “love” is fake because it can’t be measured. You do so by insisting that the only revealer of truth is measurable fact; you seem to want to reduce truth by conflating it with fact. But I’m the one moving goalposts.

Truth is larger than just the aggregate facts, because the human experience transcends just the facts. Otherwise, we’d not have art, beauty, love. These are the aspects of human experience to which faith speaks. Theology is one way we have to help us make meaning of our experiences. It is one way of providing language for truths that transcend mathematics. You see, truth is the manner in which fact, emotion, experience, philosophy all combine to form human reality. To reduce truth to bald fact is to diminish the human equation.

I could be wrong, but based on your post history, It appears you’ve been burned by religion at some point, in some way and you’re bitter about it. Others, however, find their faith life makes more of them and not less.

 

[sojourner]

???

How is this in any way related to his mother being woman A or woman B?
Seems to me that all these things could be said about any woman.

It matters because the story matters. The “search for facts” derails the whole purpose of telling the story in the first place. It’s like arguing about what’s the “proper” skin color. Doing so takes our attention away from the real issue, which is “does this person count as a human being, or not.”

The elements of the story provide us with meaning that reflects the human condition from a particular perspective.

 

[ChristineM]

I’m not the one moving goalposts. You keep setting up strawmen, based on definitions that you believe apply. They are not the definitions used by theological scholars.

Let’s just cut the crap and name what’s going on here. You want to discredit the Bible as being nothing more than a work of fiction that carries no significance to humanity. You want to discredit theology and faith as nothing more than unfounded and capricious whim. You do so by throwing around the term “myth” indiscriminately — even though the way in which you use it does not apply to either textual scholarship or to theological study. You do so by insisting that the only things that really matter in humanity’s search for truth are measurable facts, when, in fact, we know that there are many aspects of real human experience that simply can’t be quantified.

Your entire argument rests on a flimsy demand for “evidence” for faith-claims in order to “prove” their veracity, completely ignoring the fact that faith takes form in metaphor, allegory and, yes, MYTH (in the literary sense of that term), and not in the world of scientific or mathematical proof. It’s no different than calling “beauty” fake, because aesthetics can’t be quantified, or insisting that “love” is fake because it can’t be measured. You do so by insisting that the only revealer of truth is measurable fact; you seem to want to reduce truth by conflating it with fact. But I’m the one moving goalposts.

Truth is larger than just the aggregate facts, because the human experience transcends just the facts. Otherwise, we’d not have art, beauty, love. These are the aspects of human experience to which faith speaks. Theology is one way we have to help us make meaning of our experiences. It is one way of providing language for truths that transcend mathematics. You see, truth is the manner in which fact, emotion, experience, philosophy all combine to form human reality. To reduce truth to bald fact is to diminish the human equation.

I could be wrong, but based on your post history, It appears you’ve been burned by religion at some point, in some way and you’re bitter about it. Others, however, find their faith life makes more of them and not less.

The evidence is in this thread, i know what i said.

i am done with your nonsense.

 

[sojourner]

The evidence is in this thread, i know what i said.

i am done with your nonsense.

Of course you are, my dear.