How shall we correct this injustice?

[IndigoChild5559]

This is actually an ETHICAL issue rather than political, since absolutely every political party has never addressed it. However, since no ethical forum exists, politics seems to be the best place for the thread.

Last summer, my son asked me an odd question. He said, "If you were lost out in the woods, would you be more scared if a bear approached you, or a man?? Without hesitation, I said, "A man." He couldn't wrap his head around that. I tried to explain to him that a bear wasn't going to bother me unless I bothered it, if I scared it in some way, or it was worried about cubs. But a man, out in the middle of nowhere, with no one else to witness, could do ANYTHING. Yeah, I'd be terrified.

The topic is sexual violence against women. This is not to suggest that men aren't victims of sexual violence. When a man is raped, it is just as horrifying and scarring as for a woman. However, sexual violence against men is much, much more rare. So, with all sympathy towards male victims, I'm going to plunge ahead with the topic. I'm also going to stick to US statistics, mostly from the RAINN website (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) but as we all know, sexual violence against women is a problem worldwide.

One out of every four women in the US is a victim of sexual violence. However, only about a third (310 out of every 1,000) of these women report it to the police. This meshes with my personal experience. I'm the sort in real life that others sense will be understanding and keep confidences, so I hear all sorts of private things from people, and of the many women who have told me they were raped, NONE went to the police.

Unlike the manosphere fear that women commonly accuse innocent men of rape, the truth is that genuine victims usually say nothing at all. The reasons are many.

• Shock. It's just easier to deny that something so horrible has happened. Going to the police makes it real.
• Shame. Even today in 2024, women are commonly blamed for their own rapes, everything from "Were you drinking" to "How were you dressed."
• Fear of retaliation. Self explanatory.
• Privacy. Women have a modesty that is just not as common among men. Most of us don't even feel comfortable undressing in front of other women in locker rooms. Sexual violence is something deeply personal, and many women just don't want to talk about it.
• Lying: No one suspects a mugging victim of making it up. No one suspects a home burglary victim of making it up. No one suspects a victim of a financial scam of making it up. But no sooner do you say rape, then the first thing that goes through the minds of most men is, "Is she making it up?"
• Concern for the perpetrator: Amazingly, 7% of all sexual assault victims say the reason they didn't go to the police was because they didn't want to get the perp (likely a friend or family member) into trouble.
• Danger: There are literally victims of rape in this country who are currently in jail for "filing a false police report." They first get bullied by overly zealous detectives to withdrawing their complaint, and then are arrested and prosecuted.
• Being raped a second time: If it goes to court, the victim has to endure the vicious attacks of defense attorneys, who will do all they can to drag her through the mud.
• Lack of faith in the system: The truth is, almost no perpetrators of sexual violence ever go to jail. They rape without consequence. Most victims think, "What good does it do to go to the police?" It is this last element that I want to do a deep dive on.

Let's look at some of the statistics. As I already mentioned, not even a third of all sexual assaults are reported to the police. As reported by RAINN: Out of every 1000 sexual assaults, 975 perpetrators will walk free. Only 50 reports will lead to an arrest. Only 28 will lead to a felony conviction. Only 25 will be incarcerated. Out of 1000.

This means that only 2.5% of women who are sexually assaulted will see their victimizer go to jail. And in case you think this website is too generous towards women, please know that I have chosen one that is more conservative. I've seen statistics as low as 0.15%.

The long and short of it is this: men continue to rape women with impunity. I'm not saying that most men are rapists. They're not. (And those many men who do treat women with respect, you have my undying love!) But for those who do harm women, they do a LOT of damage, and they do it without consequence.


So.... Let's get down to the brass tacks. WHAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THIS? How can our laws be changed? How can police policies be changed? How can our justice department be changed?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Last summer, my son asked me an odd question. He said, "If you were lost out in the woods, would you be more scared if a bear approached you, or a man?? Without hesitation, I said, "A man."

I really don't buy that. You're lost in the woods and need help, but you're automatically afraid of a man, who could help you? Me, I'm always going to be far more afraid of the bear, which can rip your face off with a swipe of a paw. However, a man can be downed with a hard kick to the balls. Not that tough, really. If you're in the woods, you should already have a form of self-defense ready, anyway.

Anyway, I just thought that was kind of silly.

As for the first of your post...I myself have been assaulted by both men and women. I also didn't bother to report it. One of them happened at a concert in front of people and this one woman just shrugged. So you get the sense no one cares.

I find it's very common - abuse - among both males and females. Man are just much less likely to discuss it with anyone at all. It's viewed as highly shameful and unmanly. A lot of guys don't know how to talk about these things, either. They're not likey to talk about such things with their male friends. So we don't really know what the true rates of sexual abuse, assault and rape are for men or women. I suspect it's much higher for both than we officially know.

Also, another reason people don't report it and press charges is that they don't want to think about it and have it all dredged up again. These are traumatic things and people don't want to relive that. It hurts.

As for what can be done to change it, I don't know, besides awareness. Treating it as a man vs woman thing is not helpful, either. This is a universal thing and both boys/men and girls/women are harmed. So we need to start there, in pursuit of justice. It's actually really scary how common sexual abuse is.

 

[Heyo]

This is actually an ETHICAL issue rather than political, since absolutely every political party has never addressed it. However, since no ethical forum exists, politics seems to be the best place for the thread.

1. There is a forum under Philosophy -> Morals and Ethics.
2. I think it is rather political than ethical, and so do you. You ask for changes in law and policies at the end.

If it were an ethical question, the answer would be education in ethics. Boys would have to learn that rape and preventing rapists from getting justice is unethical, really unethical, no excuses.
And girls would have to learn that not reporting a rape is unethical, because it enables the rapist to do it again to other women.

But then reality kicks in, and it becomes political, as justice is often not served.

Unlike the manosphere fear that women commonly accuse innocent men of rape, the truth is that genuine victims usually say nothing at all. The reasons are many.

• Shock. It's just easier to deny that something so horrible has happened. Going to the police makes it real.
• Shame. Even today in 2024, women are commonly blamed for their own rapes, everything from "Were you drinking" to "How were you dressed."
• Fear of retaliation. Self explanatory.
• Privacy. Women have a modesty that is just not as common among men. Most of us don't even feel comfortable undressing in front of other women in locker rooms. Sexual violence is something deeply personal, and many women just don't want to talk about it.
• Lying: No one suspects a mugging victim of making it up. No one suspects a home burglary victim of making it up. No one suspects a victim of a financial scam of making it up. But no sooner do you say rape, then the first thing that goes through the minds of most men is, "Is she making it up?"
• Concern for the perpetrator: Amazingly, 7% of all sexual assault victims say the reason they didn't go to the police was because they didn't want to get the perp (likely a friend or family member) into trouble.
• Danger: There are literally victims of rape in this country who are currently in jail for "filing a false police report." They first get bullied by overly zealous detectives to withdrawing their complaint, and then are arrested and prosecuted.
• Being raped a second time: If it goes to court, the victim has to endure the vicious attacks of defense attorneys, who will do all they can to drag her through the mud.
• Lack of faith in the system: The truth is, almost no perpetrators of sexual violence ever go to jail. They rape without consequence. Most victims think, "What good does it do to go to the police?" It is this last element that I want to do a deep dive on.

Let's look at some of the statistics. As I already mentioned, not even a third of all sexual assaults are reported to the police. As reported by RAINN: Out of every 1000 sexual assaults, 975 perpetrators will walk free. Only 50 reports will lead to an arrest. Only 28 will lead to a felony conviction. Only 25 will be incarcerated. Out of 1000.

This means that only 2.5% of women who are sexually assaulted will see their victimizer go to jail. And in case you think this website is too generous towards women, please know that I have chosen one that is more conservative. I've seen statistics as low as 0.15%.

The long and short of it is this: men continue to rape women with impunity. I'm not saying that most men are rapists. They're not. (And those many men who do treat women with respect, you have my undying love!) But for those who do harm women, they do a LOT of damage, and they do it without consequence.


So.... Let's get down to the brass tacks. WHAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE THIS? How can our laws be changed? How can police policies be changed? How can our justice department be changed?

A big problem for rape victims is a principle of justice, which is a good thing in itself, that, when in doubt, the accused goes free. Rape is notoriously hard to prove, even when the jury isn't biased towards men.

In conclusion, I don't have a good answer for you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

1. There is a forum under Philosophy -> Morals and Ethics.

So stupid. Why do they need to hide it like that. This is primarily a religious forum. The next closest topic to religion is ethics. You would think any ethics forum would be right out there in front of our faces.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think rape is a crime...that needs to be punished.
A raped woman must immediately go to the police. Immediately.

The police needs immediate intervention to investigate.

 

[Heyo]

So stupid. Why do they need to hide it like that. This is primarily a religious forum. The next closest topic to religion is ethics. You would think any ethics forum would be right out there in front of our faces.

Debatable. Ethics and morals have been part of philosophy ever since it existed. Though, religion existed before philosophy.

 

[Heyo]

I think rape is a crime...that needs to be punished.
A raped woman must immediately go to the police. Immediately.

The police needs immediate intervention to investigate.

Nope.
Your average police man (and they are usually men) is incompetent to handle a rape allegation. Women should go to the hospital, they will secure evidence, may have counsellors present and will call the police for you, if you so wish.

 

[Estro Felino]

Nope.
Your average police man (and they are usually men) is incompetent to handle a rape allegation. Women should go to the hospital, they will secure evidence, may have counsellors present and will call the police for you, if you so wish.

We need to live in a Big Brother's studio.
With thousands of surveillance cameras. That assure us safety against criminals.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Debatable. Ethics and morals have been part of philosophy ever since it existed. Though, religion existed before philosophy.

I thought religion was a kind of philosophy?

 

[Heyo]

I thought religion was a kind of philosophy?

Not really, though there are some overlaps, especially in Buddhism.
Both religion and philosophy try to explain the world, but only philosophy does it with reason.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not really, though there are some overlaps, especially in Buddhism.
Both religion and philosophy try to explain the world, but only philosophy does it with reason.

Yes I agree. Religion is a philosophy because it seeks to explain existence, but the amount of reason it uses can be considerably less than most other philosophies.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Women should go to the hospital, they will secure evidence, may have counsellors present and will call the police for you, if you so wish.

This.

Nothing establishes rape better then a good ol' medical examination. And the sooner after the fact it is done, the better chance of having good documented evidence is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We need to live in a Big Brother's studio.
With thousands of surveillance cameras.

No thanks

That assure us safety against criminals.

Not really. It does rape our privacy though.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

One out of every four women in the US is a victim of sexual violence.

The long and short of it is this: men continue to rape women with impunity.

I'm trying to better understand the statistics. Could you please provide a link to the first quote? I'd also like to know if the category "victim of sexual violence" is the same as "victim of rape." Thanks.

 

[Estro Felino]

Not really. It does rape our privacy though.

Privacy?
In my language there's no such a word.
That is why we borrowed it from English.

It probably is due to the fact that ancient Romans used the baths and spas altogether...there was no privacy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Privacy?
In my language there's no such a word.
That is why we borrowed it from English.

It probably is due to the fact that ancient Romans used the baths and spas altogether...there was no privacy.

Your irrelevant comment is noted.

 

[Estro Felino]

Your irrelevant comment is noted.

Surveillance cameras can help catch unknown rapists.

They are fundamental.
Because rapists usually kidnap their preys in the middle of street.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Surveillance cameras can help catch unknown rapists.

Not really.

They are fundamental.
Because rapists usually kidnap their preys in the middle of street.

You watch to many movies.
In reality, that almost never happens.

Half of rapes actually occur in people's homes, without any prior "kidnapping" in the streets.
Many others happen in remote area's like forests.
Or in bars, disco's, etc.


You are once again showing how simplistic your mind works. Seems like you literally never think things through before posting.

 

[Estro Felino]

Not really.


You watch to many movies.
In reality, that almost never happens.

Half of rapes actually occur in people's homes, without any prior "kidnapping" in the streets.
Many others happen in remote area's like forests.
Or in bars, disco's, etc.

The other half is important as well.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The other half is important as well.

As said, the other half happens in remote area's like forests.
Or in bars, disco's etc.

If you think stacking a bunch of privacy invading camera's on the streets is going to stop rape by any significant margin or somehow make it easier to identify rapists, you are simply delusional.