How shall we correct this injustice?

[TagliatelliMonster]

In your country, maybe.
Not in mine.

False.

This concerns EU laws on data protection. Camera's collect personal data (your image).
In public, camera's must be clearly visible and / or it is mandatory to put notices up that the area is being filmed.

This is EU law.
It goes for cameras in public and even on private property.

Hidden cameras on private property are only allowed as long as only personal stuff is being filmed from the family. If there are workers present, like cleaners or babysitters, then the data collected through these hidden camera's are illegal. Also in Italy. In every EU country.

As for Italy, it would also be in violation of article 615 c.p. of the italian law itself.


Don't try to lecture me on laws concerning privacy.

 

[Foxfyre]

Possibly also have some sort of control over religions because of the gross amount of sexual assualt the priests and other worshippers commit.

My solutions have nothing to do with controlling anybody's religious beliefs though which is a whole different subject. And when it comes to things like that, who can be trusted with controlling religion?

Better for decent people to create a culture of respect and decency and common sense and appropriately dealing with bad actors whatever their origins.

 

[Estro Felino]

False.

This concerns EU laws on data protection. Camera's collect personal data (your image).
In public, camera's must be clearly visible and / or it is mandatory to put notices up that the area is being filmed.

This is EU law.
It goes for cameras in public and even on private property.

Hidden cameras on private property are only allowed as long as only personal stuff is being filmed from the family. If there are workers present, like cleaners or babysitters, then the data collected through these hidden camera's are illegal. Also in Italy. In every EU country.

As for Italy, it would also be in violation of article 615 c.p. of the italian law itself.


Don't try to lecture me on laws concerning privacy.

I used to work at a clothes shop.
There was a camera at the entrance and no sign warning people.
It was on the street.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I used to work at a clothes shop.
There was a camera at the entrance and no sign warning people.
It was on the street.

If it was a hidden camera and there was no sign, then the security system was in breach of EU law and thus illegal.

And even with not hidden cam's, you'll usually see signs like these:

And while looking for it, this one cracked me up

 

[Estro Felino]

If it was a hidden camera and there was no sign, then the security system was in breach of EU law and thus illegal.

Each morning, while walking to the office...I know there are hundreds of cameras (shop cameras) that are recording my passage.


There are no signs at the doors of these shops.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Each morning, while walking to the office...I know there are hundreds of cameras (shop cameras) that are recording my passage.


There are no signs at the doors of these shops.

But you know.
Meaning they are visible.

Having said that, finding examples of people breaking the law, does not mean the law doesn't exist.

Fact remains. Hidden camera's without signs that there is video surveillance, is illegal in the EU as per the data protection / privacy laws.

 

[Estro Felino]

But you know.
Meaning they are visible.

Having said that, finding examples of people breaking the law, does not mean the law doesn't exist.

Fact remains. Hidden camera's without signs that there is video surveillance, is illegal in the EU as per the data protection / privacy laws.

Roads are a public space.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I really don't buy that. You're lost in the woods and need help, but you're automatically afraid of a man, who could help you? Me, I'm always going to be far more afraid of the bear, which can rip your face off with a swipe of a paw. However, a man can be downed with a hard kick to the balls. Not that tough, really. If you're in the woods, you should already have a form of self-defense ready, anyway.
Anyway, I just thought that was kind of silly.

You don't have to "buy it."
It's true anyway.
I also choose the bear. For the reasons given in the OP, and more.

As for the first of your post...I myself have been assaulted by both men and women. I also didn't bother to report it. One of them happened at a concert in front of people and this one woman just shrugged. So you get the sense no one cares.

I find it's very common - abuse - among both males and females. Man are just much less likely to discuss it with anyone at all. It's viewed as highly shameful and unmanly. A lot of guys don't know how to talk about these things, either. They're not likey to talk about such things with their male friends. So we don't really know what the true rates of sexual abuse, assault and rape are for men or women. I suspect it's much higher for both than we officially know.

Also, another reason people don't report it and press charges is that they don't want to think about it and have it all dredged up again. These are traumatic things and people don't want to relive that. It hurts.

As for what can be done to change it, I don't know, besides awareness. Treating it as a man vs woman thing is not helpful, either. This is a universal thing and both boys/men and girls/women are harmed. So we need to start there, in pursuit of justice. It's actually really scary how common sexual abuse is.

We should start by placing the shame where it belongs: On the perpetrator.

 

[Koldo]

1. Do not allow home grown sexual predators to have easy access to women and children.

How?

2. Control our borders and deny admission to those who have not come through the legal immigration system. To invite in sexual predators, sex traffickers among millions of migrants is just plain nuts.

Why do you presume there is any significant number of rapists among illegal immigrants?

3. Keep private spaces--public restrooms, locker rooms, dressing rooms--restricted to biological women. Don't put women in the position of having a biological male assigned as a roommate etc.

Why do you presume that trans women are likely to rape biological women?

4. And most importantly, teach young women to exercise common sense, respect themselves, their bodies, the importance of decency and modesty and good manners.

Why do you presume that modesty and good manners are an effective way to prevent rape?

And teach young men to not strike or otherwise use their superior strength to mistreat women but rather protect them, to be modest themselves, decent, courteous, and respectful.

Been done already.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Roads are a public space.

Public spaces fall under the same data protection act.

You are dancing all around.


ps: when I put a camera on my door to film the entrance, then that is considered part of the private property. And in fact, if that camera additionally also films the public road and thus people who aren't entering / leaving the shop, but just passers by, then this also becomes extra problematic because private camera's can't just film the public road like that.

Sounds like you have quite some reading up to do concerning this subject.
I suggest starting with the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) and specifically how it applies to collecting video images

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't have to "buy it."
It's true anyway.
I also choose the bear. For the reasons given in the OP, and more.

We should start by placing the shame where it belongs: On the perpetrator.

I recall reading about some bears preying on humans.
Polar bears are known for it. But black bears will too.
And this is on the increase.

Beware of predatory male American black bears: Attack rates are rising with human population growth

A new study of fatal black bear attacks in North America shows that predatory male bears are responsible for most historical attacks.

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You don't have to "buy it."
It's true anyway.
I also choose the bear. For the reasons given in the OP, and more.

It's totally illogical, and it's so easy to say it when you're not actually in such a situation. I don't think this argument helps the case of sex abuse victims. It's just another "all men are dangerous and scary" smear.

 

[Vinayaka]

I feel like there is a giant step missing between "macho-man" and "snide sexual comments" on the one hand, and actually engaging in sexual violence / rape on the other.

I don't consider myself a "macho" at all, but as the vast majority of males will attest to, if being honest, then the "snide sexual comments" are pretty much the normal order of the day when among men.

For the healthy fertile man between, say, 16 and 50 years old, perhaps older also, sex is pretty much always on our minds one way or the other.
When a gorgeous sexy woman walks by, believe you me: all of us have seen her. Most of us are undressing her in our minds also.

The other day we were standing outside of the office having a smoke and a home nurse stopped to go work in one of the apartments upstairs. There's a few older people living there who get daily help. She was a beautiful woman. Almost instantly, the comments started "ow yeah, she can come give me a spungebath any time..." followed by laughing nods of agreement.

A woman might walk by in a tight top and we'll all be like "nice, real perky"
Another woman might walk by with a round behind and we'll all be like "shake it honey" or "man, must make a nice full clapping sound to slap that thing".


This is how we talk among ourselves.
From there, it feels like a GIANT leap to talk like that to women or even only in the proximity of women.

And from there, it's an even more GIANT leap to not only talk that thrash, but actually LIVE IT and thus engage in sexual violence of any sort.

Not a hair on my body would even consider it.

Such silly talk among men is one thing. To actually go and harass women, verbally or physically, is a completely different beast!


Also, I'm quite certain that women among themselves will also engage in the exact same type of sexually tinted comments about the men they see walking around.

I disagree. Yes, this is how many men do talk amongst themselves. But many men also don't. I'm one of them, and I have called out that sort of talk. Yes, it may be a long jump to rape, but it still objectifies. Perhaps you hang with a different crowd than I do. Personally, I stopped that sort of thing with a realisation at about 18 years old. That realisation doubled my friendship potential.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I disagree. Yes, this is how many men do talk amongst themselves. But many men also don't. I'm one of them, and I have called out that sort of talk. Yes, it may be a long jump to rape, but it still objectifies. Perhaps you hang with a different crowd than I do. Personally, I stopped that sort of thing with a realisation at about 18 years old. That realisation doubled my friendship potential.

I don't do that, either. Certainly not all men behave that way. It's just something immature people do and I don't like it when people do it around me in public, especially when they expect you to take part. It's just gross behavior. Women make raunchy sexual comments with their friends, too. Look at Sex and the City. They were sex crazed like how men are stereotyped as being.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's totally illogical, and it's so easy to say it when you're not actually in such a situation. I don't think this argument helps the case of sex abuse victims. It's just another "all men are dangerous and scary" smear.

Nah, it's not. I certainly don't think all men are dangerous, and I'd venture to say most women don't either. My husband isn't a dangerous man. Neither was my father or grandfather. So let's not pretend that's what's going on here.

It's an honest assessment of a hypothetical situation that many women have offered up, and some simply refuse to accept because they don't understand it. Or don't want to, I don't know which one. Even in this thread, there are people questioning whether we're really sexually assaulted as much as we claim. Well, we are. And that has something to do with why we choose the bear, along with the long list of reasons offered up in the OP, and other reasons I've given before on this board.

You can listen to our reasons, or not. Even brush them off as "totally illogical" if you wish. But I've been raped and sexually assaulted before, and I'm going with the bear whether anyone likes it or not.

Now, how do we get people to stop raping people?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I recall reading about some bears preying on humans.
Polar bears are known for it. But black bears will too.
And this is on the increase.

Beware of predatory male American black bears: Attack rates are rising with human population growth

A new study of fatal black bear attacks in North America shows that predatory male bears are responsible for most historical attacks.

www.sciencedaily.com

Polar bears are freaking gigantic.
I don't live in the Arctic, so I'm not likely to run into one them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nah, it's not. I certainly don't think all men are dangerous, and I'd venture to say most women don't either. My husband isn't a dangerous man. Neither was my father or grandfather. So let's not pretend that's what's going on here.

It's an honest assessment of a hypothetical situation that many women have offered up, and some simply refuse to accept because they don't understand it. Or don't want to, I don't know which one. Even in this thread, there are people questioning whether we're really sexually assaulted as much as we claim. Well, we are. And that has something to do with why we choose the bear, along with the long list of reasons offered up in the OP, and other reasons I've given before on this board.

You can listen to our reasons, or not. Even brush them off as "totally illogical" if you wish. But I've been raped and sexually assaulted before, and I'm going with the bear whether anyone likes it or not.

Now, how do we get people to stop raping people?

I'm a sexual assault victim, too, by both men and women. I do not like how the OP frames it as a man vs woman thing - as if rape is a women's issue and not a human issue - and that hypothetical goes along with that. It's not a helpful way to frame things.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't do that, either. Certainly not all men behave that way. It's just something immature people do and I don't like it when people do it around me in public, especially when they expect you to take part. It's just gross behavior. Women make raunchy sexual comments with their friends, too. Look at Sex and the City. They were sex crazed like how men are stereotyped as being.

Thank you. Surely humanity can be higher than that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now, how do we get people to stop raping people?

Crime, specifically assault will never stop.
How to curb it?
There are many factors, so I'll address one idea.
A libertarian approach is to try methods that don't
involve coercion. That leaves us with assistance.
Those most in need are children in dysfunctional
families, especially abusive ones. So I propose
more assistance to families that would enable
healthy environments, eg, mental health care,
curbing bullying (particularly in schools).
I'll bet you can think of more than I can.

BTW, a libertarian can propose something that
would mean a tax increase....when the alternative
is worse (crime & punishment).

 

[SkepticThinker]

Crime, specifically assault will never stop.
How to curb it?
There are many factors, so I'll address one idea.
A libertarian approach is to try methods that don't
involve coercion. That leaves us with assistance.
Those most in need are children in dysfunctional
families, especially abusive ones. So I propose
more assistance to families that would enable
healthy environments, eg, mental health care,
curbing bullying (particularly in schools).
I'll bet you can think of more than I can.

BTW, a libertarian can propose something that
would mean a tax increase....when the alternative
is worse (crime).

Sounds like a good start to me.
Perhaps I have some libertarian leanings in me.