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How should the Christian Church treat homosexuals?

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yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
darkstar said:
I've seen the claim marriage is between one man and one woman. And my post pointing out men of God having many wives was never addressed.

I recommend the documentary "For the bible tells me so"
It talks about biology, psychology AND has several biblical scholars that speak on the subject.
It also shows specific cases that show what the discrimination and hatred do to people and tear apart families.
Click to expand...

Yeah they went a bit wrong there, I think the idea was to bring nations together through marriage...:)
 
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darkstar

Member
yourgraceisenough said:
maybe he did but people don't always listen...:)
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That's an assumption. The point is that the bible talks about these men as devoted to God completely. We're talking about men who would do anything God asked, even sacrificing their children if told to do so. But they wouldn't marry only one woman if commanded?
 
yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
darkstar said:
That's an assumption. The point is that the bible talks about these men as devoted to God completely. We're talking about men who would do anything God asked, even sacrificing their children if told to do so. But they wouldn't marry only one woman if commanded?
Click to expand...

hang on are you saying every man or woman in the bible who was devoted to God never disobeyed God or did anything wrong...:)
 
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espo35

Active Member
This thread may go on forever without any one person changing his/her opinion one iota.

Note to yourgraceisenough- The Bible is not a club with which to beat people over the head with.
You are right- the Bible does not approve of homosexuality.

And that is the extent of your rightness.

Please do not speak for Jesus, God or other Christians with anything other than what is written in Scripture, which, strangely enough, you never seem to quote....and when you paraphrase, you do so poorly.

Leave it at that. If people want to condone homosexuality without repentance, either they don't care what the Bible says or they feel that they are good enough people that God will forgive them for it.....either way, it's none of your business.

When you start talking jive about how homosexuality is on tv, you're right. But so is murder, rape, incest, drug-abuse, alcoholism and war... and that's just the evening news. Is homosexuality worse than these debaucheries?

Wait... I have an idea.....

don't answer.

Please.
 
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D

darkstar

Member
yourgraceisenough said:
hang on are you saying every man or woman in the bible who was devoted to God never disobeyed God or did anything wrong...:)
Click to expand...

No, I'm stating that the bible had rules about wives that included having multiple wives. It also gave rules for treating people as property.
These rules have changed. Everything changes.

People interpret the bible differently. You have the right to believe what you want as long as you don't impose it on others because that is causing harm to another.

For example, I believe you are wrong. I will however defend your RIGHT to believe such unless it affects others' lives.
I gave an example of hate groups using the bible to attack interracial marriage and minorities directly. Would you support this stance? It was widely supported, and viewed as the will of God. Now it isn't.

I don't believe your views either, but as long as they don't impact civil rights of homosexuals I don't care. The sad truth is that right now, views like yours DO harm homosexuals.
 
yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
espo35 said:
This thread may go on forever without any one person changing his/her opinion one iota.

Note to yourgraceisenough- The Bible is not a club with which to beat people over the head with.
You are right- the Bible does not approve of homosexuality.

And that is the extent of your rightness.

Please do not speak for Jesus, God or other Christians with anything other than what is written in Scripture, which, strangely enough, you never seem to quote....and when you paraphrase, you do so poorly.

Leave it at that. If people want to condone homosexuality without repentance, either they don't care what the Bible says or they feel that they are good enough people that God will forgive them for it.....either way, it's none of your business.

When you start talking jive about how homosexuality is on tv, you're right. But so is murder, rape, incest, drug-abuse, alcoholism and war... and that's just the evening news. Is homosexuality worse than these debaucheries?

Wait... I have an idea.....

don't answer.

Please.
Click to expand...

I know I am right about the biblical view of homosexuality but I appreciate your agreeing...:)

the bible has literal text and implied text, to merely use one would be improper use of God's word, sometimes we look to Gods nature for the answers, I see no problem with that as long as we are consistant with it...:)
 
yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
darkstar said:
No, I'm stating that the bible had rules about wives that included having multiple wives. It also gave rules for treating people as property.
These rules have changed. Everything changes.

People interpret the bible differently. You have the right to believe what you want as long as you don't impose it on others because that is causing harm to another.

For example, I believe you are wrong. I will however defend your RIGHT to believe such unless it affects others' lives.
I gave an example of hate groups using the bible to attack interracial marriage and minorities directly. Would you support this stance? It was widely supported, and viewed as the will of God. Now it isn't.

I don't believe your views either, but as long as they don't impact civil rights of homosexuals I don't care. The sad truth is that right now, views like yours DO harm homosexuals.
Click to expand...

just because someone broke the rules it does not mean all the rules were broken...:)
 
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espo35

Active Member
yourgraceisenough said:
I know I am right about the biblical view of homosexuality but I appreciate your agreeing...:)

the bible has literal text and implied text, to merely use one would be improper use of God's word, sometimes we look to Gods nature for the answers, I see no problem with that as long as we are consistant with it...:)
Click to expand...

I see a BIG problem with it: You are using the word "we" when you should be using the word "I".

"Implied text", eh?? :no:

You are as full of crap as anyone I've ever read.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
yourgraceisenough said:
if actually watching gays on tv making out made me nauseous would that be delusional or real...??:)
Click to expand...
Consider this. Some people are afraid of spiders, to such an extreme extent that even seeing a spider on tv bring on real terror. And some people are afraid of snakes. Some are so sensitive to the sight of blood that even the fake red stuff on the television would make them extremely nauseous. And speaking of nausea some people are vomit phobic. I had a friend that was so afraid of needles that even seeing one on tv would give him the shakes. You name it and somebody is overly sensitive to it. Every single image ever put on tv, or in a movie, or in a magazine could potentially cause someone discomfort.


The interesting thing about these phobias (and that is what they are) and that they are treatable. In some cases people become perfectly comfortable with the source of their ex-phobia. But it does require treatment and the desire to get over it.


And yes, if you are feeling nauseous simply by seeing two people of the same gender express affection you have a phobia. And this phobia could successfully be dealt with if you wanted to. In your cace however the problem is that you actually consider your phobia to be a virtue. And rather than trying to get over it you will do everything in your power to try to strengthen it. You think the problem with society is that not enough people share your phobia. And as long as you continue to suffer from this delusion you will continue to suffer discomfort. It is within your power to deal with it, you suffer by your own choice.
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Again, by naming Homosexuality as a sin, with no substantial evidence of your faith as "Truth" you are merely forcing your own faith upon people that may not necessarily agree with you.

Meaning you are trying to push your own religious agenda upon the legal system. My question to you is, how can you not see that you are doing this?

By denying a minority something based on the fact that your religion outlines it as a "sin", and then allowing people outside your faith (also sinners according to your holy book), including inter-faith marriages, then you are proving yourselves to be little more than hypocrites.

I'm sorry, I don't like to say it. But that is what it is. Blatant hypocrisy.

It's always easy to bully someone you outnumber. Again I state... Homosexuality has been around forever. We've more than proven that by surviving centuries of hostility, centuries of persecution and centuries of blatant ignorance based on fear.

Perhaps it's time for fundamentalists to focus on living their own lives instead of trying to dictate the lives of those around them? If I got married to my partner, it would have absolutely no effect on any heterosexual relationship, unless one person within that relationship was perhaps Bisexual, or a closeted Homosexual themselves.

Even then... seriously. Why would I want you (or your partner) when I am in a loving wonderful relationship with a man who means the world to me? Do all you straight men think you are so drop dead gorgeous that every Gay man could actually be bothered hitting on you?

Or ladies... do you think that every Lesbian suddenly wants to jump you? Seriously? All I sense in that logic is arrogance, egotism and stupidity. When are you guys going to realise that we'd rather have a person to live with who can, you know, reciprocate the love we have for them?
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Wouldn't even have anything to do with religion.It is an unhealthy lifestyle and its extremely selfish to push this lifestyle into society ,in the schools and on our children for selfish justification and political correctness.You want to argue about pushing a Christian agenda yet want to be selfish enough to push unhealthy risky behaviors on children in the schools.
There are those who argue not all gays have anal sex . Not everyone speeds either but we still need laws controlling speed limits. The truth is most do and there are other health risk factors as well.
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Health and behavioral issues


Many homosexuals recognize the norm of a long-term relationship with one partner. Nevertheless, taken as a whole, the homosexual population includes a large percentage whose sexual behavior is aberrant by any standards. The health consequences of promiscuous homosexuality are tragic. In comparison to ordinary heterosexual lifestyles, homosexuals vary on a number of measures including the following:
  • The average homosexual male has 50 different partners in his lifetime, compared to six for the average heterosexual. These numbers are higher among those living in urban centers. The Kinsey Institute published a study of homosexual males living in San Francisco which reported that 43 percent had sex with 500 or more partners; 28 percent had sex with 1000 or more partners; and 79 percent said that over half of their sex partners were strangers.[9]
  • McWhirter and Mattison, both therapists who are homosexual, conducted a survey of 156 male couples. As reported in their book, The Male Couple, they found that 95 percent of the couples were unfaithful, and the five percent that were faithful had been together five or fewer years. In contrast, surveys of heterosexual couples conducted in the 1990s show rates of infidelity ranging from four percent in a given year, 6.4 percent over a five-year period and 15-17 percent over the life of the marriage.[10] These results are opposite to the 95 percent of unfaithful homosexual couples. McWhirter and Mattison themselves stated, “The expectation for outside sexual activity was the rule for male couples and the exception for heterosexuals.”[11]
  • Some homosexual sexual practices are inherently risky, notably anal sex. The skin inside the anus is highly susceptible to tearing, which can create openings for viruses and bacteria to enter the body.
  • A report by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Task Force on Youth Suicide in 1989 revealed that one-third of all teenage suicides are committed by those who suffer from homosexual problems. This is an extremely high percentage considering that only 1 to 3 percent of the population is homosexual. It was, however, noted that this increased risk of suicide might be attributable at least in part to a "hostile and condemning environment, verbal and physical abuse, rejection and isolation from family and peers".[12] Homosexual men are six times more likely to have attempted suicide than heterosexual men.[13]
  • The United States and several European countries prohibit men who have sex with men from donating blood "because they are, as a group, at increased risk for HIV, hepatitis B and certain other infections that can be transmitted by transfusion."[14]
The medical problems associated with homosexuality are well-known in the gay community. The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association warns gay men about the following:[15]
  1. HIV/AIDS, Safe Sex: That men who have sex with men are at an increased risk of HIV infection is well known, but the effectiveness of safe sex in reducing the rate of HIV infection is one of the gay community’s great success stories.
  2. Substance Abuse: Gay men abuse substances at a higher rate than the general population, and not just in larger communities such as New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.
  3. Depression/Anxiety: Depression and anxiety appear to affect gay men at a higher rate than in the general population.
  4. Hepatitis Immunization: Men who have sex with men are at an increased risk of sexually transmitted hepatitis.
  5. STDs: Sexually transmitted diseases (STD)s occur in sexually active gay men at a high rate.
  6. Prostate, Testicular, and Colon Cancer: The cultural sensitivities of gay men may lead them not to avail themselves of recommended screenings, thus putting them at higher risk of death by prostate, testicular, or colon cancer.
  7. Alcohol: It is thought that gay men have higher rates of alcohol dependence and abuse than straight men.
  8. Tobacco: It appears that gay men use tobacco at much higher rates than straight men, reaching nearly 50 percent in several studies. Tobacco-related health problems include lung disease and lung cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, and a whole host of other serious problems.
  9. Fitness (Diet and Exercise): Problems with body image are more common among gay men than their straight counterparts. This results in a higher prevalence in gay men of eating disorders such as bulimia or anorexia nervosa. Others overdo exercise and abuse of substances such as anabolic steroids. At the opposite end of the spectrum, overweight and obesity are problems that also affect a large subset of the gay community.
  10. Anal Papilloma: Of all the sexually transmitted infections gay men are at risk for, human papilloma virus—which cause anal and genital warts—is often thought to be little more than an unsightly inconvenience. However, these infections may play a role in the increased rates of anal cancers in gay men.
 
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Vasiel

Vasiel

The Seeker
yourgraceisenough said:
so show me the mistakes I have made....:)

it's the word of God...:)
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According to your personal experience and faith it is the Word of God.

To others of different religion, it is not. Everything you continually state is relative to your experience and whilst it is beneficial for you, there is little substantial evidence to back up your claims in an "Absolute" context.

I'm not saying that believing in the bible is wrong. I'm saying that forcing that belief on others is wrong. Trying to make civil rights and laws express the doctrines of one religion over another is wrong, especially when one lives in a multi-cultural and multi religious country/society.

I've expressed this point over and over again, but I will repeat it again:

Just because you believe something, does not make it Absolute Truth. Faith is relative to individual experience and personality and should never be forced upon another as "Absolute" without substantial evidence to back it up.
 
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