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how should we react to mockery ?

maro

muslimah
I don't see the big deal if some light minded people depicited the prophet (pbuh) or mocked Islam....what else is expected from them ?..why do threats and protests arise immediately ?
If a dog barked at you in the street...will you stop to bark at him ?!!!

I think those people should be ignored...they don't deserve more than that....if that's their free speech..so be it....how this will affect Islam ,anyway ?!
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
It's not just Islam that has to ignore mockery dear, sometimes people mock Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, etc. and we have to ignore that. I respect Muhammad as a teacher, I'm not a Muslim, so not a prophet, but I still respect Muhammad. I don't get offended if they mock Muhammad, it's all in good comedy.
 

maro

muslimah
Mockery....sometimes I ignore it, sometimes I hate it, & sometimes I enjoy it.
yosef1986 said:
but I still respect Muhammad. I don't get offended if they mock Muhammad, it's all in good comedy.

I am not asking my brothers and sisters to enjoy the mockery or not to be offended by it...all i am asking them is to treat those as barking dogs...because the fact is that they are no more than that

Giving a response that's different from one's response to a barking dog is giving value to those who don't deserve it..i wish my muslim brothers could see this
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
I am not a moderator or a Muslim, but would like to point out to the two non-Muslim posters so far, this is a DIR thread, and it is not open to debate, so please respect the rules.

My comment on the OP, is simply lots of patience. That is the only remedy for mockery, IMO.
 

Peacewise

Active Member
lol, maro, a barking dog is not necessarily ignored, its bark can be abrasive, destroying one's peace, making it difficult for discussion. People who have it within them to desire to correct a dog, have it within them to correct a person.
I hear people shout at a barking dog - "be quiet" or "shut up", all the time.
There is an incorrect belief that telling a loud person to be quiet will result in that person being quiet, this of course does not happen often, and like the dog told to 'shut up' that will bark more the person will probably be louder.

You are correct, ignore the barking dog, or address the reason why it's barking is the correct response, rather than objecting to its barking... but of course sometimes to address the reason is challenging because that bark fills the dogs mind. A mocker cannot HEAR reason amongst the noise of their own loudness.

When the dog is quiet, instead say - good dog.
or
when the mocker is respectful, instead say, thank you for being respectful... until then, yes ignore them is best... but hey, none of us if perfect!

Do check out positive reinforcement training for dogs to understand this psychology.

Silence truly is the beginning of wisdom.
 

Sajdah

Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
I don't see the big deal if some light minded people depicited the prophet (pbuh) or mocked Islam....what else is expected from them ?..why do threats and protests arise immediately ?
If a dog barked at you in the street...will you stop to bark at him ?!!!

I think those people should be ignored...they don't deserve more than that....if that's their free speech..so be it....how this will affect Islam ,anyway ?!

I agree that they are barking dogs, and you cannot stone each dog barks at you...because if you did it would make stones more valuable than gold!
But the problem is that they don't have free speech, if one of them started to mock at the Holocaust for instance, he would be jailed immediatley. So when we Muslims give no response to that, it would give them more boldness to mock us any time without thinking of the consequences of it.
I know that Islam, and the prophets peace be upon them are not affected by any of their garbage, but I feel that Muslims became so little, having no dignity, which are the reasons that allowed them to do this with us.
 

maro

muslimah
Peacewise said:
...or address the reason why it's barking is the correct response

Do you suggest we should have an intellectal conversation with the dogs to find out the very good reasons that make the bark ?!!!....i thought they bark because they are dogs...it's in their nature to bark.

I
So when we Muslims give no response to that, it would give them more boldness to mock us any time without thinking of the consequences of it.

actually , those consequences are their motives ,sajdah....they enjoy seeing the so called conseuences...the threats , the protests , the riots.....it satisfies their sick ego

The consequence they should really be afraid of is Ignoring
I know that Islam, and the prophets peace be upon them are not affected by any of their garbage, but I feel that Muslims became so little, having no dignity, which are the reasons that allowed them to do this with us.
The garbage only speaks volume about the rubbish dump it's coming from....i don't think it has anything to do with our dignity.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I am not a moderator or a Muslim, but would like to point out to the two non-Muslim posters so far, this is a DIR thread, and it is not open to debate, so please respect the rules.

My comment on the OP, is simply lots of patience. That is the only remedy for mockery, IMO.

That is a good reminder, especially for those of us not used to such a rule. But my intent was to pretty much agree with the OP, & add my views on mockery. No debate intended.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
*** Staff Advisory ***

As has been pointed out, this thread is in the Islam DIR Forum. Please remember the following forum rule:

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that Dir are permitted. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.


Short version: if you are not a Muslim, you are not allowed to post in this thread except for respectful questions.

Please abide by this rule in future.

Thank you,

9-10ths_Penguin
Mod
 

Peacewise

Active Member
Do you suggest we should have an intellectal conversation with the dogs to find out the very good reasons that make the bark ?!!!....i thought they bark because they are dogs...it's in their nature to bark.

thanks for the question maro.

Dogs bark for many reasons. For example, they bark because they are bored, they bark because another dog is barking, they bark because they feel threatened, they bark to warn the pack an intruder is nearby, they bark to scare off another animal, they bark at the birds - but I don't know why LOL, my dog even barked just tonight at a subway wrapper, but again I don't know why. lol.

Of course I cannot have an intellectual conversation with the dog, if it is the canine you speak of here, but I can observe why the dog is barking, can use my intellect in that fashion - and that's the point.

So for my examples above, I can provide the dog other forms of interesting things to do - to minimize its bored barking. I cannot effect someone's dog barking, unless I know the owner. I can ensure that the dog is not threatened by having a safe house and yard and that I spend time with the dog for it to feel comfortable in that place - to minimize it's feeling of being threatened. I can acknowledge that there is an intruder nearby and not react in the same fashion as the dog, hence revealing that being quiet is the appropriate response to an intruder - who will more likely be a guest. I can seek to make sure no other animals enter the yard, so that the dog need not bark at them. I haven't yet thought of a way to remove the birds, but nor do i want to! As for the subway wrapper, well that was just a laugh for a bit, and I put the wrapper in the bin.

But if you mean the mockers who are the barking dogs - well you'll have to use your intellect to question them on why they mock, rather than assume you know, for that assumption may itself be the reason why they mock.

So question them, with an open heart, seeking truth, don't be taken in by their mocking, find a reason for their mocking and address it, if you have the will... if not do as you say, and ignore them.

It's a challenge, to address the reasons for a mockers mocking, have no doubt of this. You will fail often, but occasionally you'll succeed. And when you fail, that may hurt yourself or indeed them because your faith, reasoning and open heart and gift of love is denied and rejected, but those times you succeed, ah well is this not the ultimate expression of humanity, to turn an enemy into a friend, a "barking dog" into a human.

And that term, barking dog for a human, it stands in your way to achieving a friendship with that person who mocks you, very rare are the people who would accept being considered a barking dog, and even rarer are those who will listen to someone who holds that view point of them. In truth when we think "they are a barking dog" this makes us a barking dog also.

As for me, I love dogs, of the 4 legged kind that is. They have a genuineness that some humans have lost, but no dog has ever not been genuine, they will never lie to you... and perhaps right there is a path to feeling the love for the metaphorical barking dog, that they speak their truth to you... and this is only what we can ask of each other, to speak the truth as we see it.

or so it seems to me.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
*** Staff Advisory ***

Short version: if you are not a Muslim, you are not allowed to post in this thread except for respectful questions.
9-10ths_Penguin
Mod

Oops! I didn't know it was that restrictive. Since I lack questions, I'll stay away.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

maro

muslimah
In truth when we think "they are a barking dog" this makes us a barking dog also.

I don't think so...In truth when we think "they are barking dogs " , we should then apologize for th dogs for degrading them in our thoughts

As for me, I love dogs, of the 4 legged kind that is. They have a genuineness that some humans have lost, but no dog has ever not been genuine, they will never lie to you... and perhaps right there is a path to feeling the love for the metaphorical barking dog, that they speak their truth to you... and this is only what we can ask of each other, to speak the truth as we see it.

or so it seems to me.
Very true..a barking dog might still be genuine and truthful....even rapid dogs are still better than some types of psychos around.

however ,i still think both need to be ignored.
 

Peacewise

Active Member
maro, I didn't realise this was an Islamic thread only, nor know the rules regarding such.

If I have given offence then please inform me.

May I continue participating in this thread? - In a similar manner to my previous participation?
 

maro

muslimah
very rare are the people who would accept being considered a barking dog, and even rarer are those who will listen to someone who holds that view point of them.

I don't think dogs are willing to listen wether you called them dogs or not...that's the point exactly.
 

maro

muslimah
maro, I didn't realise this was an Islamic thread only, nor know the rules regarding such.

If I have given offence then please inform me.

May I continue participating in this thread? - In a similar manner to my previous participation?

no offense...you can go on
 

Peacewise

Active Member
I don't think dogs are willing to listen wether you called them dogs or not...that's the point exactly.

ah thank you for allowing me to participate.

A 4 legged dog, does not understand why we don't want them to bark, yet we can train them not to bark, with positive reinforcement or correction training - and I prefer positive reinforcement.

A mocker can be made to listen, by listening to them first, with gratitude with genuine openness. Build the relationship first is the path. If we are the mature persons, then surely we can move them past their mocking, if we but care to try... and again, yes I agree sometimes it is best for ourselves if we do not try.

for instance... that old favourite of the school boy in my nation.
"you suck" they might say to me, meaning they do not like me or do not like something i have done.
"why do I suck?" I have not denied their feelings, and instead have asked them to explore it with me, I become someone to share with.

And right there usually they can give an answer, or if they cannot give an answer then I know that their statement

"you suck"

may not based on reasoning, they are not yet aware of why such an emotional reaction has occurred in them, or perhaps they cannot express it, or even perhaps they chose to not express the reason to me.

And if they cannot or will not tell me why, then I will end the conversation with a promise.
"when you work out why I suck, you can tell me." - a way forward, revealing again that I will listen.

or if they tell me why I suck, and that reason is valid and true, then I must accept that I do suck and hence either change my ways or not, for whatever outcome is appropriate.

or if they tell me why I suck, and that reason is invalid or not true, then I can choose to educate them to seek to reveal that it is not me that sucks because their reasoning is invalid... and this path may be most difficult, for they already think I suck and as such they will not want to listen, and may reject my reasoning out of hand. Or if they have an open mind they may accept my reasoning and see of course... that I do not suck.

But truly ignoring the barking dog is one of the easiest and most effective ways to have them stop barking, it is a non violent solution, and I too use this process in my dog training and also, at times, in my discussions on forums...

But sometimes I do also succumb to barking back - we are social creatures, and sometimes it is not what we say, but merely that we are saying something - a way of finding some common ground for a more worthwhile discussion.

or so it seems to me.
 

Sajdah

Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
actually , those consequences are their motives ,sajdah....they enjoy seeing the so called conseuences...the threats , the protests , the riots.....it satisfies their sick ego

The consequence they should really be afraid of is Ignoring
I think there should be a response to what is happening, but on a high level, from officials, governments...That's going to put an end to such things, but we don't have governments that care much about what their people want...
As individuals, their response will differ from a person to another, some would make death threats (which make those mock at us as heros, and that's what they want), others would protest, use boycotting, others would adhere more to their religion, and in my opinion the latter one is the best of them and I think this one will make them afraid, not ignoring IMO....

The garbage only speaks volume about the rubbish dump it's coming from....i don't think it has anything to do with our dignity.

Perhaps, but I think differently....It's our identity which was mocked at, and such situations show our weakness, because if we were more powerful, no body would dare to do that.
 

Sajdah

Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Also it is our duty as Muslims to correct the wrong thing:
من رأى منكم منكراً فلعيره بيده, فإن لم يستطع فبلسانه, فإن لم يستطع فبقلبه وذلك أضعف الإيمان
So if there are available means which we can use to make them stop, why shouldn't we use them?
 

Abu Rashid

Active Member
We should react the same way our Khalifah Abdul Hamid ath-Thaani (May God have mercy upon him) reacted when the French tried to stage the play by the miscreant Voltaire which attacks the character of our noble prophet (saw).

He summoned the French ambassador and advised him that if he didn't ensure the play was cancelled, then he would raise an army and march it towards France to ensure it was cancelled.

In short, he used diplomatic means that were at his disposal (the moral of the story is not about violent threats, as I'm sure the non-Muslims will claim). Today we have the ability to enact similar kinds of pressures, although to a much less extent. We must boycott any country that permits this filth to be propagated from within their borders, and force them to think twice about disrespecting Islam and Muslims. This has worked to some extent with Denmark, but could've worked much better if we had worked on it more and demanded our countries also participate in it.
 
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