how should we react to mockery ?

[maro]

for instance... that old favourite of the school boy in my nation.
"you suck" they might say to me, meaning they do not like me or do not like something i have done.
"why do I suck?" I have not denied their feelings, and instead have asked them to explore it with me, I become someone to share with.

And right there usually they can give an answer, or if they cannot give an answer then I know that their statement

"you suck"

may not based on reasoning, they are not yet aware of why such an emotional reaction has occurred in them, or perhaps they cannot express it, or even perhaps they chose to not express the reason to me.

And if they cannot or will not tell me why, then I will end the conversation with a promise.
"when you work out why I suck, you can tell me." - a way forward, revealing again that I will listen.

or if they tell me why I suck, and that reason is valid and true, then I must accept that I do suck and hence either change my ways or not, for whatever outcome is appropriate.

or if they tell me why I suck, and that reason is invalid or not true, then I can choose to educate them to seek to reveal that it is not me that sucks because their reasoning is invalid... and this path may be most difficult, for they already think I suck and as such they will not want to listen, and may reject my reasoning out of hand. Or if they have an open mind they may accept my reasoning and see of course... that I do not suck.

I admire your approach and tolerance Peacewise...I really do...However ,i think we sould be intelligent enough to figure out with whom it might work...otherwise ,it would be stupidity

for example , what reasonable conversation ,if any ,do you suggest muslims should have with someone who depicited the prophet (pbuh) eating bacon while Aisha is watching ?!!!!!

"dear ,why do you think the prophet eats bacon ? ....when you figure out why the prophet (pbuh) eats bacon ,you can tell me" :kissbette

May Allah have mercy on me !!

 

[maro]

I think there should be a response to what is happening, but on a high level, from officials, governments...That's going to put an end to such things, but we don't have governments that care much about what their people want...
As individuals, their response will differ from a person to another, some would make death threats (which make those mock at us as heros, and that's what they want), others would protest, use boycotting, others would adhere more to their religion, and in my opinion the latter one is the best of them and I think this one will make them afraid, not ignoring IMO....

I agree with the boycotting of course..i wouldn't feel comfortable buying the goods of a bunch of barkig dogs ,myself...but i don't agree with the official response....that's too much for them

Perhaps, but I think differently....It's our identity which was mocked at, and such situations show our weakness, because if we were more powerful, no body would dare to do that.

let's agree to disagree on this ya mena..i believe our identity is only affected by our own words and actions..not by others '
and even if our weakness is what gave them the guts to do it ,then the only proper response is to become powerful...not to threat and riot with no real actions

Also it is our duty as Muslims to correct the wrong thing:
من رأى منكم منكراً فلعيره بيده, فإن لم يستطع فبلسانه, فإن لم يستطع فبقلبه وذلك أضعف الإيمان
So if there are available means which we can use to make them stop, why shouldn't we use them?

I think what applies here is فليغيره بقلبه

because we have no authority to force others to act as we wish...when the pagans of mecca called the prophet (pbuh) mothamam to degrade him.....he ordered his companions to just ignore them...."they are defaming mothamam, and I am Muhammad " he said (pbuh)

We should defend him by acting according to his sunna (pbuh)

 

[maro]

We should react the same way our Khalifah Abdul Hamid ath-Thaani (May God have mercy upon him) reacted when the French tried to stage the play by the miscreant Voltaire which attacks the character of our noble prophet (saw).

He summoned the French ambassador and advised him that if he didn't ensure the play was cancelled, then he would raise an army and march it towards France to ensure it was cancelled.

In short, he used diplomatic means that were at his disposal (the moral of the story is not about violent threats, as I'm sure the non-Muslims will claim). Today we have the ability to enact similar kinds of pressures, although to a much less extent. We must boycott any country that permits this filth to be propagated from within their borders, and force them to think twice about disrespecting Islam and Muslims. This has worked to some extent with Denmark, but could've worked much better if we had worked on it more and demanded our countries also participate in it.

As i said i agree with the boycotting...and of course not with raising an army !!!

 

[Abu Rashid]

I agree with the boycotting of course..i wouldn't feel comfortable buying the goods of a bunch of barkig dogs ,myself...but i don't agree with the official response....that's too much for them

We must not just lobby other governments, we *must* lobby/pressure our own governments, even more so actually, to make an official response. Individuals alone cannot do much, but governments can. This is one of the main reasons the Prophet (saw) strived so much to attain government, because you cannot do much without it.

If all Muslim countries refused to deal with any country mocking Islam, do you think their governments would let their citizens do it? No way!!

And this just highlights as well why it's so important for Muslims to be united under a single government (as the prophet (saw) commanded us), because we'll always have those traitors who will break the boycotts.

 

[Sajdah]

I agree with the boycotting of course..i wouldn't feel comfortable buying the goods of a bunch of barkig dogs ,myself...but i don't agree with the official response....that's too much for them

But what if the offense came from officials? Shouldn't be there an official response from our side?

let's agree to disagree on this ya mena..i believe our identity is only affected by our own words and actions..not by others '

I agree on this part, and I want to add that what made them do this with us, is that our words have no weight.

and even if our weakness is what gave them the guts to do it ,then the only proper response is to become powerful...not to threat and riot with no real actions

Mayada I'm not with riots, or threats, on the contrary I believe it is stupidity to react this way... And to become more powerful is a long run response; but there should be a temporary solution; like boycotting as you said.

I think what applies here is فليغيره بقلبه

Is that what applies here because we have no other thing to do, or because it is their freedom of speech so they have every right to mock us as they wish?

because we have no authority to force others to act as we wish...

Maro, boycotting is one of the available means I was talking about, so do you believe that boycotting is not a sort of force on them?

when the pagans of mecca called the prophet (pbuh) mothamam to degrade him.....he ordered his companions to just ignore them...."they are defaming mothamam, and I am Muhammad " he said (pbuh)

We should defend him by acting according to his sunna (pbuh)

Correct, there are many situations in the Sirah where the prophet Peace be upon him has met the offense with mercy, and forgiveness...But is it a valid right for us to forgive those people while they are insisting on offense?

 

[maro]

But what if the offense came from officials? Shouldn't be there an official response from our side?

yes ,of course..but it rarely comes from officials....even George Bush himself was watching his words while talking about Islam

Is that what applies here because we have no other thing to do, or because it is their freedom of speech so they have every right to mock us as they wish?

because it's their freedom of speech ,sajdah.....and we have no control over them

Maro, boycotting is one of the available means I was talking about, so do you believe that boycotting is not a sort of force on them?

no ,i don't view boycotting as means of pressure...i see no need to put pressure on them at all...they are free to practice their kuffr as they wish
I view boycotting as a natural response from muslims..as i said , i wouldn't feel comfortable buying their goods

Correct, there are many situations in the Sirah where the prophet Peace be upon him has met the offense with mercy, and forgiveness...But is it a valid right for us to forgive those people while they are insisting on offense?

No ,i never talked about forgivness..i was only refering to the right approach to deal with it ,sajdah

i guess these verses address the topic perfectly

You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves.And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allāh much abuse. But if you are patient and fear Allāh – indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination
[3:186]


And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance. [73:10]

 

[Aquitaine]

Do you think the best thing to do would be to ignore mockery and not to rise to it?

 

[301ouncer]

Also it is our duty as Muslims to correct the wrong thing:
من رأى منكم منكراً فلعيره بيده, فإن لم يستطع فبلسانه, فإن لم يستطع فبقلبه وذلك أضعف الإيمان
So if there are available means which we can use to make them stop, why shouldn't we use them?

excellent post sister. JazakAllah khairan.

This is exctly why we should always rise up and stand up and speak up against such vile violation of your way of life.

I say to those choclate scholars " We do what we do because we act upon the verse and do not worry of the blame of the blamers"

 

[.lava]

excellent post sister. JazakAllah khairan.

This is exctly why we should always rise up and stand up and speak up against such vile violation of your way of life.

I say to those choclate scholars " We do what we do because we act upon the verse and do not worry of the blame of the blamers"

not sure if you care but not everyone speaks Arabic or is this some kind of Arabic DIR to you?

.

 

[.lava]

i could not consider this thread as an example of "ignoring". IMO it is best not to give any reaction in case your reaction was going to damage image of Islam

.

 

[Peacewise]

I admire your approach and tolerance Peacewise...I really do...However ,i think we sould be intelligent enough to figure out with whom it might work...otherwise ,it would be stupidity

for example , what reasonable conversation ,if any ,do you suggest muslims should have with someone who depicited the prophet (pbuh) eating bacon while Aisha is watching ?!!!!!

"dear ,why do you think the prophet eats bacon ? ....when you figure out why the prophet (pbuh) eats bacon ,you can tell me" :kissbette

May Allah have mercy on me !!

Thank you maro.
in your 'for example' I would suggest that a person might ask.
"why do you depict the prophet eating bacon?" or perhaps...

"Do you know that to depict the prophet eating bacon is an offensive image."
or perhaps....

and if it is offense that the depicter consciously choose to inflict because they might answer something like.
"I wanted to make you think." or perhaps.
"I have produced a piece of satire in the hopes of sparking thought."
or rarely... they might truly own up to
"I intended to offend you." for sometimes 'satire' is designed to be offensive to some people yet funny to others - a form of ridicule in the hopes of evoking thought.

Then perhaps the questioning might be...
"Why do you feel it is necessary to cause offense?" - we do not deny their intention of creating offense, but instead seek to know why they offend.
"Could you have made your point in another way, without being offensive?" - providing them a way forward.

It is a cruel example you have given me, and I thank you for it, for much of the world is cruel and we do need strategies to live amongst cruelty...
and in your example truly I do think that the strategy of ignoring that depiction could be effective for the believer, ignoring it is for the person of faith who knows they cannot remain calm in the discussion with the depicter in my opinion.

What would not be effective in my opinion is to become angry, because that is one of the consequences that I believe a satirical artist might have for depicting the image - so to deny them their sought consequence may be a way of revealing that the depiction is so totally and utterly inaccurate that it does not require a moments anger.

In summary,
the artist may want to ridicule, so do not be ridiculed.
the artist may want you to question your faith, so be firm in your faith and instead question the artist.
the artist may want any response about the art, so provide none about the art, instead questioning the artist.

Again our intellect can overcome this unenlightened person.
I study non violence and I know that what I say here is much easier to say in these theoretical circumstances than to achieve in a heated moment, but if a person can practice their non violence when it encounters the violence (in this case an offensive depiction) then the non violent moment can achieve a victory by having powerful and practiced non violence.

Thank you again for the question, may I ask one?
Is my suggested reasoning similar to what a Muslim might reason?

 

[maro]

not sure if you care but not everyone speaks Arabic or is this some kind of Arabic DIR to you?

That was the Hadith posted in Arabic ,lava

"Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith."

And i think that what applies to the case of muslims facing mockery of their faith is to change it with his heart because we have no control over others...we have no authority but the authority of dawah

excellent post sister. JazakAllah khairan.

This is exctly why we should always rise up and stand up and speak up against such vile violation of your way of life.

So ,how will you rise up ? why don't you give us details ? isn't this what this thread is all about ?

Will you rise up in the streets raising a note " Behead those who insult Islam " ?
Will you send death threats to the mockers ?
will you raise an army and march towards the country of the mockers ?
Will you insult them back ?
Will you boycott them ?
Will you abide by the prophet's sunna more and try to be a better muslim ?
Will you excel in your job and take a neya in making the muslims more powerful ?

What's your plan for rising up ,bro ?

I say to those choclate scholars " We do what we do because we act upon the verse and do not worry of the blame of the blamers"

I am sorry...which verse are you refering to ? and by doing what exactly , you are acting upon it ?

I wish you can elaborate

 

[maro]

i could not consider this thread as an example of "ignoring".

I was talking about ignoring the mockery...not ignoring discussing the topic of facing mockery ,lava

I believe it's one of the most important topics that muslims need to discuss right now..don't you agree ?

IMO it is best not to give any reaction in case your reaction was going to damage image of Islam

I agree

Is my suggested reasoning similar to what a Muslim might reason?

yes ,it's

And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend[41:34].

but not everyone is able to do this...and not everyone deserves this ,either

 

[maro]

the artist may want to ridicule, so do not be ridiculed.

This is what i say to my little brother when he comes crying to me ,complaining of another boy teasing him by bringing his tongue out..
"he makes me nervous" he says...."then don't become nervous " i reply

I don't expect my brother to undersatnd as he's still a child....and unfortunately i don't expect some muslims who are busy sending death threats to understand...because they are probably less mature than my little brother

Again our intellect can overcome this unenlightened person.
I study non violence and I know that what I say here is much easier to say in these theoretical circumstances than to achieve in a heated moment, but if a person can practice their non violence when it encounters the violence (in this case an offensive depiction) then the non violent moment can achieve a victory by having powerful and practiced non violence.

Well said

 

[YmirGF]

Maro, you do understand that mockery is a form of flattery, correct? (I.E. One has to accrue reputation in order to be in a position to be seriously mocked. It is recognition of status, if anything.)

 

[Sajdah]

yes ,of course..but it rarely comes from officials....even George Bush himself was watching his words while talking about Islam

What about Pop Benedect's statements about Islam? And what do you think of Dr Al Qaradawi's response?


I think there should be an official response especially from those who accepted his visit to their countries before apologizing to Muslims...

As for Bush, he was not in need for such provokable statement as long as he is able to shed the blood of Muslims, and to make everyone thinks that a Muslim means a terrorist. That's really enough!

because it's their freedom of speech ,sajdah.....and we have no control over them

So I've to accept humiliation because it is something makes them feel better?! Don't you think it would be weakness from us?

no ,i don't view boycotting as means of pressure...i see no need to put pressure on them at all...they are free to practice their kuffr as they wish

Yeah, they are free to practice their Kuffr, but they are not free when they touch my identity...Do you think it is fair to not be allowed to defend it?

I view boycotting as a natural response from muslims..as i said , i wouldn't feel comfortable buying their goods

So you agree that there should be a "response" from Muslims such as boycotting?....I see ignoring has two meaning: whether we are not able to give them a proper response, or we are not even concerned with what they did....And I don't think that's what you mean here....So would you tell me what do you mean by "ignoring"?

No ,i never talked about forgivness..i was only refering to the right approach to deal with it ,sajdah

In my opinion ignoring is not a right approach, Maro...Not all Muslims are aware of what's going on in the first place....They should be aware of the reality. Why don't we use the attacks on Islam in a correct framework by educating Muslims about their religion and use that love to the prophet peace be upon him in a correct way by encouraging them to adhere more to his Sunnah.
Why don't we use that to know how positive we are? how much we love this religion?

i guess these verses address the topic perfectly

You will surely be tested in your possessions and in yourselves.And you will surely hear from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allāh much abuse. But if you are patient and fear Allāh – indeed, that is of the matters [worthy] of determination
[3:186]


And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance. [73:10]

Jazaki Allah kul khayr for quoting these wonderful verses dear Maro, that's the reason I said that I don't accept death threats, or violence......

You know, Maro we should be patient on their kuffr but we should not turn the other cheek!!

 

[Sajdah]

i could not consider this thread as an example of "ignoring". IMO it is best not to give any reaction in case your reaction was going to damage image of Islam

.

Thanks lava, this sentence summarizes the whole thing..... I don't think that non-violent protests, or boycotting products are going to damage the image of Islam...

 

[.lava]

Thanks lava, this sentence summarizes the whole thing..... I don't think that non-violent protests, or boycotting products are going to damage the image of Islam...

i agree, showing strong will with dignity is the right answer. i wish Muslim leaders have guts to do it. specially what you said about Pope since he comes to Turkey once in a while. unfortunately our leaders make all of us look weak

.

 

[maro]

What about Pop Benedect's statements about Islam? And what do you think of Dr Al Qaradawi's response?

I think there should be an official response especially from those who accepted his visit to their countries before apologizing to Muslims...

As i said ,sajdah...i see an official response necessary only when the insult is coming from an official character..and that's why i find Dr. Qaradawi's response to be appropriate

Another thing is that the pope made a coherent speech with several claims about Islam..which is something that can be reponded to with another speech refuting his claims..and this is what i believe in...a word refutes another..an article refutes another...a book refutes another...etc.

The same thing can be said about ahmad deedat 's response to many lies about islam..and also about the islamic websites refuting the misconceptions and propaganda

but what if the pope has drawn a cartoon of the prophet (pbuh) ?....personally ,i believe that no muslim should be lead down to the level of replying to him...not to mention an eminent scholar like al qaradawi.....and that ignoring is the best strategy here

So I've to accept humiliation because it is something makes them feel better?! Don't you think it would be weakness from us?

Yeah, they are free to practice their Kuffr, but they are not free when they touch my identity...Do you think it is fair to not be allowed to defend it?

So what do you suggest ,sajdah ? How are we going to impose our respect on them ?
personally , i think the only way is to become powerful and thus worthy of respect...to let the world see what Islam really is when properly understood and practiced....and i see no other short term golden solution

We can't force them to show respect while we are dependant almost entirely on their technology..can we ?

So you agree that there should be a "response" from Muslims such as boycotting?....I see ignoring has two meaning: whether we are not able to give them a proper response, or we are not even concerned with what they did....And I don't think that's what you mean here....So would you tell me what do you mean by "ignoring"?

By ignoring , i don't mean zero response..i only mean we should calm down a bit and think about the real effective response
we might boycott mcdonald and coca cola as a symbolic protest...but how are we going to boycott their weapons untill we manufacture our own ?
and what if the mocking came from a country like china or south korea ?...boycotting will almost be impossible then

I am not by any means degarading the 'boycotting'....i am just saying that it's the first step on a very very long road...the step that usually make muslims feel satified about themselves....together with the protests and the heated enthusiastic mottos.....WITH NO REAL ACTIONS

In my opinion ignoring is not a right approach, Maro...Not all Muslims are aware of what's going on in the first place....They should be aware of the reality. Why don't we use the attacks on Islam in a correct framework by educating Muslims about their religion and use that love to the prophet peace be upon him in a correct way by encouraging them to adhere more to his Sunnah.
Why don't we use that to know how positive we are? how much we love this religion?

well , i feel that what we disagree upon is all semantics
I feel you are objecting to the word "ignoring" because it gives you the impression of zero reponse and indifference...while what i meant was to make the right response
....you also feel that ignoring is weakness...and i view it as a very powerful and difficult response in certain cases

I am not with protesting in the streets because everytime an unknown X depicits the prophet (pbuh) ,he will be automatically bringing over a billion muslims to the streets....that will be fun.....they can bring us to the streets once in a week ,then

And then the same billion muslims who protested one day..will forget the whole thing the next day...and continue with the routine of their lives that probably include all types of sins...the only difference is that they now feel satisfied about themselves for protesting yesterday.....and that the unknown author/newspaper that mocked islam has become famous !!!!

you know what ?...what offends me the most in the south park incident is the muslims' response and not the mockery of the non muslims ?....because i believe our identity is affected only by our own words and actions as i said before

I didn't expect anything different from a non muslim ....they probably don't know who is Muhammad (PBUH)....but i expected a mature islamic response from muslims and i was disappointed

The same thing can be said about the sudanese authority that expelled an english teacher out for calling a teddy bear 'Muhamad "...inspite that she didn't mean any harm or insult and that she apologized......

The same thing applies to those who raise immature mottos in the streets like "behead those who insult islam " and " the real holocaust is coming "...etc.

Don't you agree with me that many of us have become so vulnerable ,so sensitive...to the degree of having no rational control over our responses ?

You know, Maro we should be patient on their kuffr but we should not turn the other cheek!!

I agree..we shouldn't turn the other cheek ..but we still need to be patient and tolerant....to be honest ,i agree with the tolerant approach of peacewise and i find it to be more islamic than what most of us do....but i also know that the angry attitude among muslims is preventing them from practicing such tolerance right now...and thus i believe that ignoring is best available startegy to deal with childish provocations right now

 

[maro]

i agree, showing strong will with dignity is the right answer. i wish Muslim leaders have guts to do it. specially what you said about Pope since he comes to Turkey once in a while. unfortunately our leaders make all of us look weak

.

The pope is an official character who represents many christians ,not only himself and i agree he should be banned from coming to our countires untill he Clearly apologizes

I hope the distinction i make between him and an (x author) or (y channel) is clear