How Similar Would an Alien Intelligence be to Ours?

[Sunstone]

How similar would an alien intelligence* be to our intelligence?

PLEASE NOTE: Answers along the lines of "we cannot know" etc are of course true. They are also -- as any reasonably intelligent alien would presumably know -- dull, boorish, obvious, and unimaginative. Please do not pollute this thread with such boring answers.



......
My own thoughts on this are that we would have more in common with an alien who evolved in an environment similar to ours than we would have in common with an alien who evolved in a dissimilar environment to ours.

For instance, I think anything approaching a sensible answer to the question would necessarily begin by first taking into account the life-form's external environment. For instance, did it evolve to live in social groups? Did it evolve to live as a surface creature like us? Did it evolve on a rocky world like us? e.g. we are a social species whose brain grew (relatively) huge primarily in order to deal with our living in larger and larger social groups.

Second, I think a sensible answer would take into account the natural means that the life-form has at its disposal with which to manipulate its environment. e.g. we have opposable thumbs, among other means of manipulating our environment. Our form of intelligence is most likely to some extent shaped by that fact -- by the fact we use our opposable thumbs to manipulate our environment.

And then of course, there would be other factors worth taking into account....


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*For the purposes of this thread, "intelligence" can be defined as "the effectiveness with which a life-form is able to interact with its external environment in order to realize its goals".

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And now...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, I suppose in some ways it would be necessary for it to be identical to ours. Such as, mathematics and the laws of physics will not have any significant differences. Their machines would still need energy and would not be perpetual, they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do, and though their solutions may and likely will vary we do know in some ways their intelligence and technology can't be any or much different from our own, while in some areas it will by necessity be different from our own in unforeseeable ways.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, I suppose in some ways it would be necessary for it to be identical to ours. Such as, mathematics and the laws of physics will not have any significant differences. Their machines would still need energy and would not be perpetual, they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do, and though their solutions may and likely will vary we do know in some ways their intelligence and technology can't be any or much different from our own, while in some areas it will by necessity be different from our own in unforeseeable ways.

Totally spot on! Thank you so much for that highly interesting and intelligent response.

 

[Heyo]

We have a lot of examples of "alien" intelligence to study here on earth. Birds, especially crows, cetaceans, octopodes and of course other primates. And while none reach the same level of sophistication as humans, the "intelligence" part seems pretty universal, independent of the environment.

 

[Sunstone]

We have a lot of examples of "alien" intelligence to study here on earth. Birds, especially crows, cetaceans, octopodes and of course other primates.

Excellent point

And while none reach the same level of sophistication as humans, the "intelligence" part seems pretty universal, independent of the environment.

How are you defining "intelligence" and are you suggesting that there could be something considered "intelligence" that was significantly independent of a life-form's physical or material environment? That is, an intelligence that was, say, unshaped by the physical or material reality that the intelligence evolved to deal with.

 

[Eddi]

I believe that God created humankind in his image, as it says so in the bible

Perhaps beings from other planets are also created in his image?

In which case they would be very similar to us?

But then perhaps not

Maybe humans are God's chosen species, out of many that exist in the universe? Maybe he has a special relationship with humankind??? Maybe we are the only species made in his image???

How does this relate to intelligence? I think that if both humans and aliens were made in Gods image and to have a certain relationship with God then perhaps their capacities would be similar? But that's a big "if"

We can only speculate but I'm going to say "similar" although on average they may be either brighter or more stupid than we are!

Also, to make technology and do science you need to be dexterous and have hands - look at dolphins and whales - very intelligent but they cannot interact with their environment

So if aliens are to become advanced they'd need hands and fingers, and muscles to do hard work (e.g. mining ore to turn into metals) - so to be advanced they'd need to be dexterous too. A species of super-intelligent octopuses would never achieve as much as a species of averagely intelligent humanoids

 

[Shadow Wolf]

the "intelligence" part seems pretty universal, independent of the environment.

I don't see viruses displaying intelligence.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

very intelligent but they cannot interact with their environment

They do this every single day. Dolphins do it. Elephants do it. Octopi do it. Humans aren't as special as you seem to believe.

 

[Eddi]

They do this every single day. Dolphins do it. Elephants do it. Octopi do it. Humans aren't as special as you seem to believe.

I don't see them making fires, building houses, writing books or making cave paintings, making music, or making (complex) tools or being able to know about God

 

[Firemorphic]

Well, I suppose in some ways it would be necessary for it to be identical to ours. Such as, mathematics and the laws of physics will not have any significant differences. Their machines would still need energy and would not be perpetual, they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do, and though their solutions may and likely will vary we do know in some ways their intelligence and technology can't be any or much different from our own, while in some areas it will by necessity be different from our own in unforeseeable ways.

This is basically exactly what I would've said myself.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't see them making fires, building houses, writing books or making cave paintings, making music, or making (complex) tools or being able to know about God

They don't have a use for them, so why would they? And knowing about god? That doesn't require much. According to Jane Goodall even chimps experience the supernatural. And do remember, we ourselves began with ancestors who themselves could only use simple tools as we see other primates today doing.

 

[Heyo]

How are you defining "intelligence" and are you suggesting that there could be something considered "intelligence" that was significantly independent of a life-form's physical or material environment? That is, an intelligence that was, say, unshaped by the physical or material reality that the intelligence evolved to deal with.

I usually stick to "Intelligence is that what an intelligence test measures." because it is otherwise very hard to define intelligence in a way that will be universally recognized.
One possible definition would be the ability to abstract from reality and to manipulate the abstract symbols in one's mind. (Which isn't a very scientific definition as we can not look into a mind and find the symbols.) But we can infer that someone (or something) that is doing mathematics is somehow intelligent.
And yes, I can see an intelligence "unshaped by the physical or material reality that the intelligence evolved to deal with." Namely an Artificial Intelligence.

 

[Eddi]

They don't have a use for them, so why would they?

Yes

Because they are not civilised

I'd say that a civilised intelligence is greater than a non-civilised intelligence. It has to be, for a civilisation to function

Civilisation requires an intelligence that is greater than what animals require to live in a state of nature

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because they are not civilised

What is "civilized?"

animals require to live in a state of nature

We are animals, we do live in nature.

 

[Sunstone]

And yes, I can see an intelligence "unshaped by the physical or material reality that the intelligence evolved to deal with." Namely an Artificial Intelligence.

Would such an intelligence be of any practical use, even to itself? And how would you determine it was an intelligence?

 

[Eddi]

What is "civilized?"

To quote trusty old Wikipedia, a civilisation is:

any complex society characterised by urban development, social stratification imposed by a cultural elite, symbolic systems of communication (for example, witting systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment

i.e. a type of society which is politically and economically organised through various practices and institutions

It can be contrasted to a "state of nature" in which people live in hunter-gatherer tribes in very much the same manner as our pre-human ancestors did, in which everyone in the group was related to everyone else, and all things held in common by the group etc. - and more importantly lived in balance with nature, unlike today's humans!

We are animals, we do live in nature.

Yes, I agree that we are all animals

But I don't live in nature

I live inside a man-made building

And I hope you do too

 

[Heyo]

I don't see viruses displaying intelligence.

Viruses are the most intelligent of all. They outsmart us every time we try to fight them. They just mutate a little and come back with a vengeance. /jk
But have you heard of "The Blob"? An amoeba mislabled as a "slime mould" that shows behaviour that shouldn't be possible for a single cell without any neuronal pathways.

 

[Valjean]

Well, I suppose in some ways it would be necessary for it to be identical to ours. Such as, mathematics and the laws of physics will not have any significant differences. Their machines would still need energy and would not be perpetual, they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do, and though their solutions may and likely will vary we do know in some ways their intelligence and technology can't be any or much different from our own, while in some areas it will by necessity be different from our own in unforeseeable ways.

While the physical constants would be the same, the biology, sensorium and qualia of an alien organism could be radically different from our own; unrecognizably different.

 

[Valjean]

We have a lot of examples of "alien" intelligence to study here on earth. Birds, especially crows, cetaceans, octopodes and of course other primates. And while none reach the same level of sophistication as humans, the "intelligence" part seems pretty universal, independent of the environment.

But these aren't really alien. They are, in fact, biological relatives; variations of ourselves, with the same biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, senses, &c.

And what is "intelligence," anyway? Phenomenologically, is it necessarily discrete or unitary? Is it necessarily even biological? Are we talking theory of mind, technology, or.....?

 

[Heyo]

Would such an intelligence be of any practical use, even to itself? And how would you determine it was an intelligence?

Since such an intelligence is practically a "brain in a vat" it could be fed with any perceptions you like, e.g. a four-dimensional game. The use would be more scientific than practical.
Theoretically such a mind could be scanned for symbols and manipulation but given the current technology it will most likely be a neuronal network that is as much accessible to examination as a brain. So the intelligence would have to be inferred by the behaviour.