How Similar Would an Alien Intelligence be to Ours?

[sun rise]

One thing not really focused on in this thread is our emotional nature. Perhaps aliens are less emotional than we are. Not all the way to Vulcan or "Norman" levels and also not subject to logical paradoxes like the liars paradox, but much more focused on thought rather than feeling.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Case for Chimpanzee Religion, James B. Harrod,

Abstract
Do chimpanzees engage in religious behaviors? To date this question remains unanswered. I use methods from religious studies and anthropology
of religion that demonstrate an answer in the affirmative. A comprehensive review of primatology reports reveals that chimpanzees do
perform ritualized patterns of behavior in response to birth, death, consortship, and elemental natural phenomena. A structuralist analysis of
these patterns shows that chimpanzees deploy similar formulaic action schemas involving recombination of syntagmatic and paradigmatic
behaviors across all four of these life-situations. In the course of these performances, chimpanzees decontextualize and convert everyday
communicative signals to express non-ordinary emotions of wonder and awe. The patterning of chimpanzee ritual behaviors evidences all the
components of a prototypical trans-species definition of religion. These findings support hypotheses that propose religious behaviors for other
species, including hominins prior to Homo sapiens sapiens.

Conclusion
Based on a comprehensive review of primatological reports of chimpanzee behaviors and application of multiple heuristic procedures,
including a non-anthropocentric, prototypical trans-species definition of religion, it may be concluded that:

1. Chimpanzees engage in complex ritualized patterns of behavior in response to death, birth, elemental phenomena of nature (wind,water, fire, earth), and consortship.
2. These patterns display recombinatory and permutable sets of formulaic behaviors and calls, which appear to be deployed in pairs of opposed emotional valence.
3. In each ritual type, everyday communicative behaviors, such as charging displays, alarm calls, and pant-hoots, appear to be decontextualized and recontextualized in ways that modify and convert them into non-ordinary mimetic transferences expressing novel meanings and experiences of awe-dread and wonder.
4. These behaviors appear to be examples of the biological ritualization of instincts.
5. The formulaic behaviors are shared across ritual practices—death, birth, response to elemental natural phenomena, and consortship. This cross-ritual matrix of syntagmatic and paradigmatic behaviors organized by binary valences and reversals appears to be evidence for an underlying algorithmic generative competence that structures the various ritualizations.
6. Chimpanzee ritual behaviors in response to death, birth, consortship, and elemental natural phenomena correspond to and thus meet the full criteria for a prototypical trans-species definition of religion (Harrod 2011).

With this I have responded to Goodall’s initial question affirmatively: yes, there appears to be chimpanzee religion. I contend that this finding
contradicts the assertions by Howell (2003) that Goodall’s observations are far from sufficient evidence for chimpanzee religion and Bekoff
(2007a) that there is no detailed data to support or refute chimpanzee religious behavior. The results contained herein would seem to provide a
strong case for chimpanzee religion as defined.

FYI, you should summarize that in your own words and put most of that in quotations.

 

[Revoltingest]

Consider....
Humans with detectable technology have existed for less than 10K years.
But given the age of all the planets capable of supporting life, it's likely that
other critters with technology would've achieved it within a window of a few
billions of years previous.
Now, take their head start on us (in years)....subtract the time it takes for
light to travel from there to here....& the result is how far advanced (relative
to us) they'd appear to be. I wonder what the signature for infinite
improbability drive would be?

 

[George-ananda]

Well my first thought is to challenge the common notion that life evolved from scratch on different planets for each alien life form. I have come to believe that life and consciousness is One in the stand-back picture of the universe. I don't think life on earth initiated from scratch as is commonly held.

Hence I hold alien intelligences can be quite different on the surface but there is still a deeper underlying sameness that even comes to Oneness the deeper you go.

 

[Terry Sampson]

FYI, you should summarize that in your own words and put most of that in quotations.

Au contraire, kiddo, what I should have done is:

• Not quoted you; and
• Begun my post with the following sentence: "Intrigued by something inadequately described by a previous poster, I herewith attach an article of much interest to me from which I have taken the following Abstract and Commentary."

You should be pleased to know that I have now done what I've just said I should have done. If you're not, then ....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Au contraire, kiddo, what I should have done is:

"Kiddo" here is an English writing minor who is well into her 30s, and knows that even the policy here suggests you follow more generally accepted practices of summarizing in your own words, placing in quotes, and providing a link.

 

[Terry Sampson]

"Kiddo" here is an English writing minor who is well into her 30s ... "

La-ti-da, ... "yours truly" is a retired 71-year old fart with a B.A. in Accounting and a M.S. in School Psychology, who has grown weary from time to time of folks who say things and neither cite nor quote their sources. Don't like it, report me. I can take it.

 

[Valjean]

Since such an intelligence is practically a "brain in a vat" it could be fed with any perceptions you like, e.g. a four-dimensional game. The use would be more scientific than practical.
Theoretically such a mind could be scanned for symbols and manipulation but given the current technology it will most likely be a neuronal network that is as much accessible to examination as a brain. So the intelligence would have to be inferred by the behaviour.

Why does intelligence, or even mind, have to reside in a 'brain'? Why does an organism even have to be a discrete entity, rather than a variable agglomeration of ????
Even on Earth we see supraorganisms and holobionts, interacting synergetically. Biologists are even playing with the idea that we're all metaorganisms; interactive collections of more or less different species.

A beehive is a supraorganism, with individual, detachable cells assuming different functions. Then there are marine, holobiotic organisms that can exist independently as single cells or undifferentiated collections of cells, but that can also agglomerate and specialize into a large organism with 'cells' morphing into different, specialized forms.

Superorganism - Wikipedia
Collective intelligence - Wikipedia
The sponge holobiont in a changing ocean: from microbes to ecosystems | Microbiome | Full Text

 

[Valjean]

Alien intelligence has already been extensively imagined in sci fi, particularly
Star Trek. We see great variety.....more dog-eat-dog (nothing personal there,
@sun rise)....hive like....peaceful....smarter....dumber....symbiotic....& others.
The one universal thing is that that they all speak English.

Some speak English, some write it but don't speak, some are telepathic.

The Vampire Cloud, the Beta XII entity and The Companion didn't speak -- at least in their original forms.

Most also have heads, except, of course, except Vampire clouds, Beta XII-A entities and Hortas.
The Medusans and those puppet-things from Catspaw are anyone's guess.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some speak English, some write it but don't speak, some are telepathic.
Most also have heads, except, of course, Vampire clouds, Beta XII-A entities and Hortas.

The Vampire Cloud (Obsession), the Beta XII entity,
The Medusans

Even the Horta used English when telepathically joined with Spock.

 

[Valjean]

The extraterrestrial intelligence, who embedded the message of 037 in life's genetic code, utilizes base ten math for conveying the message of 037 to anybody else like us Earth-bound humans who'd also comprehend a base ten math system.

Reference:
The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code shCherbak, Vladimir I.; Makukov, Maxim A. Icarus, Volume 224, Issue 1, p. 228-242. May 2013
http://earth-chronicles.ru/Publications_12/35/64182102-1-s2.0-s0019103513000791-main.pdf

So we were made by extraterrestrials, rather than God?

Did the extraterrestrials have ten fingers, too? What about aliens with four fingers, or those seven limbed heptapods from Arrival? Do they use base 10, too?
Of course, I'd expect the more cerebral aliens to use a more versatile base like 12.

 

[Heyo]

Consider....
Humans with detectable technology have existed for less than 10K years.

Humans with technology that is detectable from space (modulated radio waves) have existed for about 100 years. And, given no other example, assuming that is a medium lifetime for a high tech civilisation, the chance of detecting a civilization within its lifetime becomes pretty small.

I wonder what the signature for infinite improbability drive would be?

Hard to say. But the signature of an Alcubierre drive (Star Trek Warp drive) would be the accumulated, extremely blue shifted radiation from the whole journey. IOW, an all frying gamma ray burst.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Yes

So how does that differ from a human in a human-made habitation?

 

[Eddi]

So how does that differ from a human in a human-made habitation?

Did the squirrel buy the land to build its nest on? Did it get planning permission for its design from the local government? Did it get an architect to design it according to its idea of a good nest, buy building materials to make it out of and hire people to construct it? And pay for all of this out of the money it had, which it earned from having a salary from a job?

Basically: Was civilisation required to build the squirrel's nest?

I'd say not.

Human made habitation happens within the context of a civilisation whereas animal habitation happens because of instinct

A squirrel and its nest exist in a state of nature

A human and their dwelling exist in a state of being civilised

 

[Revoltingest]

Humans with technology that is detectable from space (modulated radio waves) have existed for about 100 years. And, given no other example, assuming that is a medium lifetime for a high tech civilisation, the chance of detecting a civilization within its lifetime becomes pretty small.

My choice of 10K was to be generous, since it's still a teensy
weensy fraction of the time a technological society would operate.

Hard to say. But the signature of an Alcubierre drive (Star Trek Warp drive) would be the accumulated, extremely blue shifted radiation from the whole journey. IOW, an all frying gamma ray burst.

Would it be so blue shifted?
If they're warping space, the actual speed of the
ship in local space would be far below C. But if
otherwise, it would also be red shifted from other
reference frames.

 

[Heyo]

Would it be so blue shifted?
If they're warping space, the actual speed of the
ship in local space would be far below C. But if
otherwise, it would also be red shifted from other
reference frames.

This is a typical depiction of an Alcubierre drive. The trough in front of the ship accumulates radiation that can't move in the direction of the ship because the trough moves faster than all radiation. At the same time the radiation gets accelerated (blueshifted) in the direction of the ship. Once the ship reaches its destination and the drive is shut off, the content of the trough is immediately emptied in the direction the ship last moved, blasting everything before its bow with hard gamma radiation.
Removes the pesky question if it is moral to colonize a planet with an already existing eco system.

 

[Salvador]

So we were made by extraterrestrials, rather than God?

Did the extraterrestrials have ten fingers, too? What about aliens with four fingers, or those seven limbed heptapods from Arrival? Do they use base 10, too?
Of course, I'd expect the more cerebral aliens to use a more versatile base like 12.

The scientists at the Fesenkov Astrophysica Institute who have discovered the mathematical and semantic message of 037 embedded in our genetic code have concluded "it appears that genetic coding was invented outside the solar system already several billions years ago."

If life's genetic code were invented outside the solar system, then this would be prima facie evidence that life's genetic code was designed by an extraterrestrial intelligent designer. Right?

We humans like to use base ten math because the number ten happens to match each typical person's complement of ten figures. Please allow me to posit that our genetic code's creator would be biased towards base ten math for the very same reason we like using base ten math.

Imo, the most intriguing fact of our universe is how the numeric and semantic message of "037" that's been embedded in our genetic coding by our Creator gets conveyed to me who computes with a base 10 numeric system.

This is evident to me by how each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us present day Earthling human beings with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

The significance of the semantic message "037" embedded in our genetic coding is well-explained in the following journal articles: .
Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209 "Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662

NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
https://www.researchgate.net/public...m_037_as_a_Base_of_Biological_CodingComputing

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, I suppose in some ways it would be necessary for it to be identical to ours. Such as, mathematics and the laws of physics will not have any significant differences. Their machines would still need energy and would not be perpetual, they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do, and though their solutions may and likely will vary we do know in some ways their intelligence and technology can't be any or much different from our own, while in some areas it will by necessity be different from our own in unforeseeable ways.

This is actually a really great answer to the question. Look especially at the statement "they would still have to overcome many of the same challenges we do." That leads you directly to evolution, and the pressures that govern it.

A nice argument, Shadow Wolf.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How similar would an alien intelligence* be to our intelligence?

PLEASE NOTE: Answers along the lines of "we cannot know" etc are of course true. They are also -- as any reasonably intelligent alien would presumably know -- dull, boorish, obvious, and unimaginative. Please do not pollute this thread with such boring answers.



......
My own thoughts on this are that we would have more in common with an alien who evolved in an environment similar to ours than we would have in common with an alien who evolved in a dissimilar environment to ours.

For instance, I think anything approaching a sensible answer to the question would necessarily begin by first taking into account the life-form's external environment. For instance, did it evolve to live in social groups? Did it evolve to live as a surface creature like us? Did it evolve on a rocky world like us? e.g. we are a social species whose brain grew (relatively) huge primarily in order to deal with our living in larger and larger social groups.

Second, I think a sensible answer would take into account the natural means that the life-form has at its disposal with which to manipulate its environment. e.g. we have opposable thumbs, among other means of manipulating our environment. Our form of intelligence is most likely to some extent shaped by that fact -- by the fact we use our opposable thumbs to manipulate our environment.

And then of course, there would be other factors worth taking into account....


______________________________
*For the purposes of this thread, "intelligence" can be defined as "the effectiveness with which a life-form is able to interact with its external environment in order to realize its goals".

_____________________________
And now...

Well assuming that the Big Bang started everything at the 'same time' it probably wouldn't be too far-fetched in our neighborhood to think that any technology developed from sapient species would probably be par for course. Any advancement over our own would probably be moderate .

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

While the physical constants would be the same, the biology, sensorium and qualia of an alien organism could be radically different from our own; unrecognizably different.

Another nice argument, and equally valid. However, I would question whether the word "unrecognizably" is justified. With enough effort, I suspect it may be possible find ways to "translate." I quite liked the movie Arrival in its treatment of that theme. The point being, of course, that since "science" (which is essentially descriptive of the universe) could be used to find common reference points. And common reference points are a great start.